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Hercules winch issues

Started by Ken, October 19, 2014, 06:52:14 PM

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Ken

The winch on my 225 wants to continue winding in when the lever is released.  Something wrong with the clutches?  Have to shove the clutch or take the tranny out of gear to make it stop
Lots of toys for working in the bush

David-L

Ken,  I have not really worked on any of my winches except the brake cylinder packing. Sounds to me either has to be the spool valve poppets or the Clutch piston cylinder. Any fluid on the side of the winch. There are packings and o-rings. There is a diaghram that I posted for timbertreeline awhile back that has the breakdown. Curious to see what others say. Good Luck.

                             David l
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

OntarioAl

Ken
My 230 will hang up and keep winching if I have not used the winch in a while. Same story push the clutch in and it stops and holds the load. After I skid a few loads it starts to work normally.
Hope this helps
Al
Al Raman

Neilo

Ken, give us a bit more info on what it is doing. Does it continue to winch with a load, or only no load, and will it hold a load.

Initially I would guess the brake isn't working. Maybe a broken spring in the brake cylinder.

Neilo

timberlinetree

Ken sorry can't help out but hope you get it fixed soon. The diagram that David L posted helped out a lot. Thanks so much David L and all the others who know how to fix. Good luck with the repair.
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Family man and loving it :)

David-L

Nielo, Can you give us Jack owners a quick tutorial of these winches. Ken and the rest of us would benefit. Is the clutch engaged to a certain point all the time and spinning the dics's so if the brake was not up to snuff it would spin as you said. I had a broken brake spring and it was not acting like Kens issue. Not trying to hi-jack this thread but the info would be good for us jack-hercules winch owners. Thanks, hope you get you winch working right Ken.

                                           David l
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

Neilo

I will try and explain a little bit quickly. I might edit this to add some more.

If the input shaft is rotating, the main shaft will be too almost always. This rotates the steel clutch discs.

With no hydraulic input, the clutch is held off by little springs, and the clutch drum is stationary with the shaft rotating inside it. The thrust bearing on the right side and the little metal tab stop the clutch drum from spinning around.

With no hydraulic input, the brake is held on with a coil spring in the cylinder, assuming it is in adjust.

The hydraulic inputs for free (out) are pressure to the brake cylinder and no pressure to clutch. This releases the brake, but doesn't rotate the drum.

The hydraulics for winching are pressure to both brake and clutch so the clutch engages and the brake is released.

The poppets in the hydraulic lines delay the pressure release to both cylinders so there is an overlap and the brake comes on before the drum stops. This avoids the load dropping.

Problems.
Grease or oil can get on brake lining or clutch so they slip.
Thrust can fail so shaft spins the clutch cylinder around breaking line and metal tab
Broken brake spring means brake won't apply.
Leaking brake cylinder means brake won't come off
Clutch material or dirt builds up in clutch so drag is always present. Will rotate drum under no load only.
Brake can be out of round making drag and hard to pull out line.

I am sure there is more...

David-L

Excellent info, thanks Neilo. Just caught this before heading out the door. A brisk 26 degree morning here.

                                         David l
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

Bert

I had the bearing go out of the cable drum in mine. It starting tuning in oval pattern and was  noticeable from the cab. It wore the teeth off the clutch disks which caused friction in the clutches (from the debris) and it to spool nonstop with light or no loads. once all the teeth are gone, it will no longer winch in a hitch. That's when I knew I had a bigger problem than a little debris in the clutches. Looking back I should have investigated when the drum started hopping but I didn't know the full operation until I had to rebuild it.
Saw you tomorrow!

Ken

I haven't had much time to explore the issue further but operator said it started doing it periodically and now it happens all the time.  As I mentioned when the lever is released the winch will continue winding in until the clutch is engaged or the main tranny is taken out of gear.  Seems to hold up well as I hooked onto a truck early this morning and helped him get turned no problem. 
Lots of toys for working in the bush

Neilo

I assume this is winching in a load, not just pulling in line your operator is talking about?

What happens when you put it in gear or let skidder clutch out? Does it start winching again?

Does it only keep winching for a little while, or just keeps going? Maybe try releasing the lever with lots of cable still out and see if the winching only goes for a period of time.

If the brake works, as Al said, it could be very clogged clutch lining (should winch as soon as drive is connected and keep going and is overpowering the brake), or hydraulic pressure held on winch clutch as David said by clogged line or poppet (should only do it for a period of time, then be OK until the next time you winch in, then it will repeat).

David-L

 The poppet scenario would be an easy and quick check. Mine were in backwards on a 225A I had. It would drop the hitch a foot or so when you stopped winching in when  they were up to the arch. Looks like the D series have a different poppet set up but do the same thing. could be as Nielo said, hyd psi to winch from faulty poppet assembly. 41 degrees here and a bit warmer with rain on the way. Good luck.

                                             David l

                                       
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

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