horse question

[Woodcarver]

We had a two ponies and a riding horse (quarter horse) for several years.  The only major expense was the hay we feed during the five months of the year that we weren't able to pasture them, about a bale a day for the horse and a half a bale each for the ponies. Horses might need some grain if they are being worked hard, otherwise, as DanG said, they do fine on hay and pasture.  In fact we had to be careful to buy grass hay and not alalfa or they would get too fat and the ponies would founder.

They were seldom on hard surfaces so we never had them shod.  I did the hoof trimming and worming myself.  Vet bills were few and far between. 

           

[crtreedude]

DanG, you are right, they ain't human and to act like they are is just silly. Sort of like putting clothes on a dog.

You are right also about the saddles. Toro has his favorite saddle - use another one and you are in for a rough ride because he wants to do the business and be done. Use the right one, and he is content to take all day if you want. Took me a bit to figure it out.

The biggest problem is that a lot of the people giving advice about horses are into really expensive ones. Sort of the difference of having a dog named "ole blue" and "Prince Albert Retriever" or some such thing. Dogs want attention - forget the other things.

The same thing for a horse, fancy stuff might make you happy, but the horse wants ANOTHER HORSE. or dog, or goat, or something for companionship. They hate to be alone. You will do too - if you are around enough.

[Ernie_Edwards]

We have 2 horses and by the end of the year we have spent about $150.00 a month on them. However, my wife is an experienced farrier, so without her doing that we could otherwise figuer about $70.00 per horse every 6-8 weeks for a farrier if you have them shod everytime, less if they are just trimmed. This is based on hay at $2.00 for a 2 wire bale of hay and buying the grain direct from a feedmill. This also includes 1 visit a year from the vet for a checkup. You want to have a vet on call for emergencies, and a good way to have one is to have him/her come out at least once a year. Ours gives spring shots and worming. Otherwise we do those ourselves the rest of the year.

All bets are off if you develope any health issues. Then the sky is the limit on the cost.

Biggest issue may be the commitment to caring for them day-in and day-out. Kinda restricts your coming and goings.

A lot of people do get by for a lot less, but there are also people who don't do preventive maintenance to their equipment either. There are always 2 or more schools of thought on anything.

Good luck.

[Norm]

Horses are no more work to have than a dog. I buy big bales of grass for dirt cheap and feed three of them over the winter to our horse. To supplement that I buy a wagon load of oats and feed a couple of gallons every other day. Shoeing is not necessary unless you are going to ride on hard surfaces. Any hoof trimming should be done by yourself, not really a big deal. They also respect an electric fence better than cattle and seem to stay in better. I worm once in the spring and once in the fall, shots we give ourselves but the only one I give is for west nile virus. My guess is I spend 2-3 hundred a year for all of this. My neighbor who thinks her horses are her children spends that much a month on her three nags, you can spend as much or as little as you want.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention I supplement Beckys rations with a frozen chicken ocassionally. :

[bcraw98]

DanG, crtreedude, and Norm_F already said it, but......................

We currently have 12 horses that we use on the ranch and rodeos and our vet and feed costs are minimal. I would suggest to anyone buying a horse to try and put them on a large pasture instead of in a stall. They will be much healthier and happier and so will you. About the only time we feed our horses grain, is when we call them up to ride, and then it's just a little treat for coming. If we are working some of them real hard for an extended period when forage is scarce, then they might get a little extra. Our vet bills are limited mainly to the cost of wormer and vaccines, because we do it ourselves. We have an occasional problem that is beyond us and take one to the vet, but it is very rare. A good saddle costs alot, but it lasts a lifetime and loses very little value if taken care of. Most of our horses remain barefoot and I do the trimming. Occasionally, we will take some to the mountains and trail ride and we will shoe them. The main thing I would stress, is that a horse is a very hardy farm animal and thrives on plenty of pasture.

[thedeeredude]

Well, thanks for the responses.  I never knew there was so much upkeep with horses.  I think I'll get a cow :D  There wouldn't be much room for it in the backyard but I can turn the garage into a barn :  As for getting a horse, I think it would be best to do the lease thing just to see what its like.

[HORSELOGGER]

Well, I am more in line with bcraw, Norm and somewhat Dang, as far as the low dollar approach. Just like fishing and hunting stuff, most riding horse stuff is marketed to attract the owner, and not needed by the animal. On the emotion thing though ( oh boy, am I ever gonna sound like a weirdo) Although I dont give them " human" emotion, I do believe they have something going on in there. Big drafts are pretty calm and docile, but still water runs deep Any time you get a group of horses together , one is gonna decide to be "BOSS" I have had up to 6 drafts, and have 3 now, and my boss horse is a complete jerk to every other horse ever here. Also must people are a bit afraid of him as he likes to stand a little close to their feet and really is indiferent to attention from people. Except me ;) Some how, over the years we have developed a relationship, where I look in his eye , and he knows that I know... :D... Its hard to explain, but I know his tricks , like how he can hang back on a big pull and make his teamate do more of the work, but still make it seem like he's workin. How every time we deck a log, if it is anywhere near the trailer, on the way by he will always try to take a step towards it as if to say , " hey boss is it break time?" But... If he sees me comiing with the collar, he lowers his head so I can reach him, when I show him the bridle, he opens his mouth  for the bit. No matter how big a load he will always try till I say stop. And when we succeed at a big load in a bad spot, and I go up to the front of the team to "high 5" and celebrate with the boys... well, they know. I care for them, they trust me, and in the working , actually accomplishing something of value with them, a relationship is built. I dont really care what it costs me to keep them as they are priceless to have. I enjoy working with them, and for the amount of wood they have decked for me over the years , they have long since payed me for a lifetime of upkeep. The fact that they gain entrance into timber stands that will never see a machine, and are great public relations for my business is just icing on the cake. Sooo... all that rambling said,  I dont give horses human emotion, but I do think they "emote" ;D

[DanG]

We're in agreement, HL, you just stated it better than I.  They definitely have emotions and feelings, just not on the same plane as humans.  Even the fanciest horse would be just as happy(but not as safe) with a crappy old wire fence as he would with white board fences and a freshly painted barn.  I will say that in the 15 years I've kept horses, I've learned a lot about human behavior by watching and working with them.  The same goes for dogs.  The horses are like a little community and it isn't hard to figure who the mayor is.  The dogs are another community and their mayor is old and has no teeth left, but he is in charge and all his citizens know it.

Successfully working with horses takes more brain than brawn.  You can not out-physical a horse, but you can make him believe that you are stronger than him by using phsychology on him.  Just as within his own little community, he will do as his leader says.  Occasionally there will be a challenge for leadership, either within the herd, or between horse and handler.  Usually, this happens in the herd when a new horse comes in or one leaves.  The pecking order gets sorted out all over again.  If the horse challenges you for leadership, you must quickly re-assert your dominance or you'll find yourself with a rebellious horse.  This happens much less, or none at all, with horses that are worked regularly.  It happens very frequently with those that are neglected, or if the handler doesn't understand the game.

I have found that all of the above applies to human relationships, as well.

[crtreedude]

One of the things that has really won the acceptance of me around the Ticos is how much the horses like me. When it is time to go get the horses - they have to go out as a group - but I just walk out and walk over to Toro - many times he will actually come over to me. Everyone is very impressed.

Toro is boss horse - he isn't the biggest in height, but he is as strong as a bull (the reason for the name) and being not even 6 yet, he has his quirky side. Only me and the Ticos ride him - I don't let visitors - he has a mind of his own and as long as you like that, there is no problems.

He is like mountain biking when you are riding him - he is so compact and strong that he runs the ridges, hills, trails, etc. His disturbing trick is that he loves to run up to the fence gate at full speed and then pull up at the last minute - I sure hope I don't fall off!  :

If you just want to walk, it is like a tug of war if he hasn't been ridden for a while.

What was really neat is that we have a filly - and the mom didn't like playing with her that much, but Toro was always game.

Toro is like a huge gentle pet - and he sure is fun to ride if you like it fast and furious. But his trot will loosen the fillings in your teeth.

[Patty]

Our Becky is like a giant dog. No harder to care for than our lab; and in some ways easier. The dog requires feed daily, and although Becky gets a treat pretty much daily like a scoop of corn or oats, it certainly isn't required. A big round bale lasts her about a month. On the plus side, she doesn't dig holes or bark or chase cars or get in a visitor's car with muddy paws; although she does show off when company comes by running around the pasture bucking and prancing while they oooh and ahhh at her. (she loves that!) She runs around like a wild pony when the combine goes by, or the planter...she is alot of fun. However she is a draft, and drafts are way different than other horses. She is docile and is content to just be petted and groomed like any pet. She has been a wonderful addition to our "family" and has added a great deal of pleasure and entertainment to our farm. I don't regret bringing her to our farm for one moment.  smiley_horserider

[Minnesota_boy]

I don't regret bringing her to our farm for one moment.  smiley_horserider

The chickens, however, do mind.  ;D :D :D :D

[sawguy21]

The chickens, however, do mind.  ;D :D :D :D

Where horses are horses and chickens are scared. ;D

[Roxie]

 :D :D :D :D :D  Ain't it so!!   :D

[weimedog]

About cost and hassle relative to horses? It depends. It also depends on who you go to and how
sound your horse is. We re-hab ex race horses. Sometimes the tracks can't give them away..sometimes
you can spend thousands.

Forget steriotypes as well. Got to look at individual horses.
We have 14 here now...11 of ours and 3 borders.

1) Quarter Horse we brough out from Colorado...he's typical Quarter horse from that region...16plus
hands, decent but not perfect conformation and an easy keeper...dooesn't NEED shoes.
2) A Colorado "mutt" of a horse, cross between an Arab and Quarter horse..but looks too
   much like a mustange. Amazing horse. Daughter won a pile of ribbons. Best trail horse ever.
   Can eat *DanG near anything and still keep weight on. Good confermation, never gets sick
  We spent less than a thousand on her.
3) Two Percheron Draft horses. Both relatively easy keepers. Also not picky about what they eat.
    One needs shoes and one doesn't..(100 bucks a shoeing for the one!) Slow but nice personallities.
4) A Percheron Thouroughbred cross. Yet ANOTHER easy keeper. Got the best traits of both breeds...
5) 6 ex track horses currently. (We have re-habbed a bunch more) Have a mix of panic time and
    wonderful!!! One named Monster (track name was "On the Ballance" is the best personallity in the
   barn. Period. 16-2 hand horse only raced twice. Big legs & feet (Why he wasn't fast) and doesn't
   need shoes or anything else special. Perfect horse...is being train for dressage & eventing. The other
   end of that TB spectrum is a club footed crazy mare named "Jettalyn" Will never be good for anyone
   but I like her and she's my pasture pet.

Bottom line is this...you know the right people and horses are not that expensive....finding solid
inexpensive horses is easy. Know the wrong people and it can and will suck you dry financially.

Couple of things that bring the cost down...
1) Owning your own facility where you have the pasture space, hay making capability....and barn
    with stalls. If you don't own then you better have a freind who does...other wise you are going
   to spend 200 dollars a month at the low end to over 500 buckeroo's to someone who does...
   and thats before hay expenses.
2) DON'T believe all you hear..especially from those who sell horses. There is a GLUT of good horses
    looking for caring homes. You don't always get what you pay for...and sometimes you can
   find the perfect horse for pennies as compared to standard channels.
3) Have a good ferrier. That can be the difference between a meat can and a solid horse. You can't
   imagin how many horror stories we have both heard and fixed created by so called experts just
   milking caring horse owners.
4) Get involved with the horse community both locally and thru internet nationally. Amazing amount
   of information available.
5) research thru the local horse community before selecting a vet. (Fortunatly we were close to
   CSU in Colorado and now close to Cornell here in NYS...very important to have those kind of
   resources available.
6) DON"T pay attention to sterio types...that can have you miss the perfect horse because someone
   convinced you one breed or another will never product a good horse for a given situation.

For example....we came to NYS complete Quater Horse biggots...if it wasn't a Quarter Horse it needs to
go to FRANCE.in a can. 

My Daughters introduction to Polo started an epiphany and the rescue operation we have built after
stumbling into a few desperate Thouroughbreds have completed the eye opening. Also the warm
blood thing gets interesting.....but another day.

When questioning the Polo coach about why ALL their horses and most in that league were TB's he
basically said it was that way because they were the only breed smart enough to learn the game...
A later exchange he asked me this "Why can a Quarter Horse have 75% ThouroughBred and still be
a quarter horse???"

We still like our Quarter Horses..but have found other breeds can product good horses too.

Anyway. By my calculation we spend around 150 dollars a month per horse as an average.
You can find tack at auctions for cheap...even good stuff. Know what you are looking for first as
the saddle has to fit the rider AND the horse....

Every spring we have a draft horse auction here in Cortland NYS and I watch amazing horses go
for next to nothing. Many to the meat folks which would be really nice horses for someone.

Last comment....the more "made" the horse is supposed to be...the more you will spend. Sometimes
thats not a guarentee of success.......back to the beginning. Get involved with the local horse
community. 4-H sometimes is the best starting point. If your an adult there are riding clubs all
over.



By the way..Norm-F's comments about his horse mirror our experience with our Draft Horses.....
They are usually easykeepers. As he said worm them twice a year....feed them grass hay...trim
them etc...Simple to own. Big pets. I would also add that the electric option for fencing is the ONLY
one that works for them! They will either push over or EAT any other fence type! (And your barn if
you miss a feeding or two)

[dail_h]

   MULES IS BETTER

[thedeeredude]

Dail,
   I always heard that but why?  The amish are starting to switch to mules for draft around here.

[PawNature]

If you are going to work. Mules will out work horses any day. But don't try ridding one any faster than a walk. They are a regular jolt wagon. Now Festus on Gun smoke had a riding mule but I never say it run.

[FiremanEd]

The best way to make a small fortune in the horse world is to start out with a HUGE fortune.

I married a horse one time.... what the dang horses didn't cost me the divorce did...


1st question I ask a women when I meet her is "do you like horses", a yes answer get's well wishes for a good life.

[Burlkraft]

Amen Fireman.....................

I could never tell Jill that...too far into it already for that : : : : : :

But her lease horse seemed to be the perfect answer ;) ;) ;) ;)

She gets to smell like horses and I don't have to look at 'em 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

[Ernie_Edwards]

   MULES IS BETTER

Dail,

As a mule lover I can't agree more. Anything a horse can do a mule can do better.

In Az I had as many as 12 mules at a time, bigtime into packing into to back country for hunting, fishing or just getting away.

My wife is an avid horse lover and still has 2 of them. I got rid of my mules as the riding in Michigan is not my style.

A couple of things I have told Darla is (I can say it here cause she won't be reading this)

1. Horses ears are the same size as mules ears, it's just that the mules brain is fully developrd and pushed the whole ear out.

2. Horses are good for 2 things, making mules and dogfood.

[Patty]

Where horses are horses and chickens are scared. ;D

Yea, I won't mention the sheep.  :D

[thecfarm]

When we went to OH to see the Amish they would hook up mules on the outside of a 6-8 hitch.They claimed the mules are not as clumsy,would not step on plants when turning,would not run into anything at the end of the rows.If there was something at the end of the rows,stonewall,fence,the mules would not run into it and skin their legs up.We saw this alot in OH.

[Woodcarver]

I have two cousins who own riding and pack mules.  When they travel to the western states to hunt, the mules go with them.  More sensible and sure-footed in the mountains than a horse.

One of the cousins is an avid coon hunter.  He and his wife ride mules when they are night hunting.  When the come to a fence they dismount and climb over the fence.  The mules jump the fence, they re-mount and continue their hunt.   

[crtreedude]

There are advantages to mules for sure - One is that you cannot make a mule do something stupid - a horse will sometimes do it anyway - proving you both wrong.

However, if you want to race a mule against a horse, just let me know if you think a mule can do anything a horse can...

[Tom]

AS good as a Mule is, he/she can't make another mule. 

I've always wanted to see a team of Bi-i-ig mules at a horse pulling.