Railroad Bridge Rebuild

[T Welsh]

A general contractor stopped by and asked if I was interested in sawing and rebuilding a timber frame RR bridge. I have done work for him before and he knows we do timber framing and said I would like for you to get a cut list and give me a price on the timbers and the removal and replacement of this bridge! This is what I found when I arrived

  

  

   12"x12" structure with 16"x9" stringers and a 10/4x16' deck. This will be a fun project if I can land it ;D. Tim

[loggah]

Thats a nice old wooden arch bridge, but aint no railroad bridge!!! it would be quite a bit of sawing making all those timbers, and you could be pretty proud when the bridge  is finished using your lumber.It looks like a bridge over a railroad grade. ;D Don

[RedLeg]

That looks like a really fun project... if you land it you could reach out to your local newspaper/TV folks as this would probably make a neat local history/interest story and they are always needing to fill column space.  The coverage would make great advertising.  Good luck! 

[bandmiller2]

Shoot for the moon,mayby they would stand still for a covered foot bridge,a copy of some famous bridge. Frank C.

[thecfarm]

Redleg is right.newspaper eat that stuff right up. We have been in the paper 2-3 times. Just a few questions,what will be crossing it now? Looks like it was built kinda wide. I can tell it's not been in use for a long time. What was it used before it got forgotten? Don't look like whatever it goes over,is used either by the looks of the trees that have fell into the so called trail. Looks like quite the stone supports. They still look good and straight.

[Al_Smith]

Rich D. also known as Sawking on flea bay was involved in a historical reconstruction of a long covered bridge in Oregon .The main timbers were one piece and very long .All cut with a chainsaw because there is no mill in the country that could handle the lengths .It was on either u-tube or one of those vidio hosting sites at one time .

[T Welsh]

loggah, Is right its not a RR bridge its an access bridge built by the RR because it cut the farm in half and was built by them to gain access to the rest of the fields. This property was abandoned and was bought up by a local and he is restoring it to be a horse farm. I am still researching it, but it was built in the 1870,s and was called the Pomeroy/Newark RR. I will get the history down first and the cut list is simple.The longest lengths are 2 mud sills that sit on stone footers that are 30'x12"x12",the rest are 21' and shorter. I am still in the research phase and trying to find enough White Oak to do the job. We may use a different material and put it back to the way the RR built it and slather it with tar when done. There are still of lot of questions that I have yet to be answered,but it will gain a lot of local attention. This property use to be part of the King Ranch operation in PA back in the 1940,s to 1960,s they would ship beef cattle to 12500 acre Buck and Doe Run Ranch and fatten the cattle up for the New York,Philadelphia and Baltimore markets. You guys are right about the attention it will draw if I can land this project and its a fun project too! Tim

[Ron Wenrich]

I remember when Buck and Doe farm cut a bunch of their timber back in the '70s and '80s.  If I recall, it was pretty nice wood.

[T Welsh]

Ron, It still is! I live 1 mile away and we are in the heart of it,just imagine the tracts of timber that have not been touched for more than a century. The problem being it is almost all tied up in conservation districts and the logistics of a timber harvest is mind boggling and almost never happens! Only when a severe storm rips the area can we salvage timber and that comes with so much red tape,most land owners say let it sit and rot! It costs more for fees and permits than the timber is worth. It is still a beautiful area mostly untouched since the early 40,s thousands of acres of fields and wood lots. Tim

[Mooseherder]

I need one of these type bridges to access the other side of the our brook.
My previous attempt is now underwater and needs a salvage.

[loggah]

Tim,It would seem to me on just the historical  aspect of it alone ,they would let you harvest the timber on site to do the bridge!!  it would make great P.R.  !!! I have worked a bit with the Grayton family up here salvaging covered bridges, pretty satisfying work!! Don

[Jeff]

That will be an awesome project if you can land it.

[Al_Smith]

I addition to those bridges depending on where the tracks were located they often installed tie crossings to access the rest of the farm lands .

Problem being typical of the railroads those tie crossings didn't get much maintainance over the years .Many simpley became unusable . Then too those original crossings were installed in a time before the larger ag machinery of today was even thought of so they just were abandoned .

Now a thought did occur to me .If the access was theoretically cut off it in a sense  could render a section of farm land land locked .I can't help but wonder what legal ramifications could result if that happened .

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hello Tim,

I wish you all the luck in the world bidding this job.  You have gotten some really good advice from some of the folks here at the FF.  I lived in Gettysburg, and taught locally for almost ten years.  Pennsylvania has some grants the property owner might use to help fund part of it.

The idea of designing it to take the weight of a "cover frame," would be great.  It would't be a true covered bridge, but the "cover frame," or "cap" would extend it's life greatly.  Maybe he could get a grant for that.  I have worked on and know "bridge wrights."  If you would like to chat to them, shoot me a private message, and I'll get you folks together.  You could do an actual covered bridge for a simple span like that.  If you got the guidance and looked and some of the old prints, you would see pretty quick, it isn't that hard.  There may even be some extra grant money for that, as well.

I also agree, with the is kind of project, if you bring in the "land trust," folks and maybe someone from the local "historical society," you could harvest near the bridge site, it the trees are suitable.  Best of luck to you, and let us know what transpires with the project. 

Regards,  jay

[T Welsh]

Al, I believe the RR built this access bridge because there rail line cut access to a large farming operation. I do not know for sure ,but I think they are liable for restoring access to said land,thus the bridge! Here is a picture of the remains of a large barn that the bridge serves

  This is not the original barn,but as you can see from the old foundations it was quit a barn during its day. Tim

[Al_Smith]

Yes but it most likely would apply to about any tract of land no matter how small it was if in fact it essentually rendered that land inaccessable I would have thought .

With the abandonment of a lot of railroad right of way I too wonder exactly how that would effect egress to those tracts of lands today if they in fact were still intact .

I'm pretty certain it's still a legal fact you cannot render a piece of ground inaccessable by any means .Although with this eminent domain business and dirty politics that might not even apply any more .Nothing along that order would surprise me in this day and age .

[giant splinter]

Projects like this are fun and rewarding, it will last for centuries and will provide a landmark project reference that will become a statement of your workmanship and ability for others to appreciate. I recently rebuilt a timber frame bridge on my ranch that is my primary access between my cabin and barn where I keep my mill and equipment, the original bridge was just plain worn out and about one good winter from collapsing and becoming  a hazard to navigation and a detriment to the fishery it spans. After up grading to my LT40HD this became my first project on the new mill.
My project needed to be completely re-designed as well as requiring permits from the county building department and state fish and wildlife, after i finished and submitted the engineering I was able to  pull all the permits. I contacted Jim Rogers to design the railing and bracing for me and between the two of us we came up with a nice timber frame hand/guardrail that looks good and will last a long time.
T.W. best of luck on your project and I hope you land it as it will for sure be a worthwhile challenge and a fun project to work on, it will be there when we are gone and speak for itself and craftsmen like you and so many others on the FF.
Thanks for sharing, great photos ...... and I am sure many of us will follow your post as it progresses.

[mad murdock]

I hope you get the job! To mill the wood and build a bridge like that AND get paid to do it all!?!?! How cool is that?! 8)

[Al_Smith]

Because often across this flat land of Ohio the railroad projects often parrellelled natural creeks they often deep ditched the areas running with the elevations of the tracks to run the water off .This also caused them to have to build short timber bridges in areas they had to provide access over the tracks to reach the tie crossings hither and yon .

Again though maybe installed in 1910 they were made for horses and after years of neglect even if they were sound would not support either the weight or width of modern machinery .Remains of those short bridges and the dry layed limestone abutments still can be found most times how ever without the timbers which rotted away decades ago .They were however still partly intact in the 60's .Unsafe though even then .

[Al_Smith]

Rambling on as usual and speaking grade crossings .The original section of the Erie Lackawanna running from Lima Ohio to Marion was layed in about 1890 and the second set of tracks in circa 1912-17 ,WW1 time .Abandoned in around 1978-80 and salvaged a few years later  for rail ,stone and ties .The land sold in half mile sections .

I did a few cuts through and dirt ramps over some of those raised roadbeds with a dozer to provide access since those old tie crossings were no longer there .You cannot imagine how hard a clay road bed can get compacted from 90 years of railway traffic over it .I mean just the next thing to concrete .

[loggah]

Up here if a railroad goes thru a piece of property ,and is abandoned it reverts to the landowner. i have a siding of the Boston and Maine thru mine and it was taken up in the 40,s and the land reverted back to the abutter, if there owners on each side it is split in the center of the right of way.

[flyboy16101]

Here in Pennsylvania you have to have it reverted yourself. The neighbor up the road assumed line (which was abbandoned over 60 years) was his automatically only to find out about a year a ago that he had to file paperwork to get it back. Nothing major but still a supprise.

[Al_Smith]

I suppose it depends on the state .This stuff was sold for fairly cheap being about 150-175  feet wide and around a half a mile or so long depending .It was half way between roads whatever that worked out to be .Evidently though the egress could not be blocked .

Montel metals out of Indiana bought the whole mess for about what one rail of one set of tracks would be worth straight scrap iron price .The land they tried at 3,000 per lot but they also tried selling ballast for $3.50 a ton too .Which by the way I ended up buying for a buck 25 loaded .

I think those scrappers out of the Hooser thought these Ohio farmers were a bunch of morons early on but they might have thought differently later on in the game . :D

I'd heard later some of that land only fetched about a thou but to me it was worthless land so I passed .

[T Welsh]

I submitted an estimate for the bridge to the general contractor. He said he would furnish all materials. So the bid got real easy to figure out. It consists of the removal and replacement of the bridge. Staying true to the original design. He is going to use cypress beams and timbers and decking. Wish me luck! I keep my pencil sharp,but custom costs! Tim 

[beenthere]

it was built in the 1870

Might be better to select a longer lasting wood than the cypress available nowdays, compared to the longer lasting cypress available in 1870.
Hopefully that is discussed, and not moving ahead not knowing the shorter lifetime expectations.