Maybe its' my inexperience at the business end of this, but I just lost two VERY nice logs to firewood processors: I was outbid. So I was just wondering: Is this common?
The Recent data point:
Many of you may remember that last summer I visited a site where the customer piled the limbs on the logs and I told him until the limbs were gone, I could not get the logs. I kept in touch and one day about 4 weeks ago I stopped by and the limbs were gone and there was a 4-sale sign. Gosh those 2 logs were nice. About 550-600 bd ft on the doyle scale, probably veneer grade oak logs, over 25", perfectly straight and no taper or much butt swell.. So I bid $100 on them for practice in quarter sawing. I told him to call me before he sold it to someone else. I never heard and last week I drove by and some firewood guys were splitting the last few pieces. I called him to find out why he didn't call. He said their offer was so much higher he figured calling me was a waste of time.
Do firewood processors outbid you?
You were just outbid, that's all...
Those logs probably went for double your bid, with no negotiation.
NCDiesel
500 bdft total, or each log?
What were those logs worth to you? Just curious.
QuoteI visited a site where the customer piled the limbs on the logs and I told him until the limbs were gone, I could not get the logs.
Truth be known, possibly the "customer" just told the firewood buyers to take it all for what they were paying.
He may just be telling you they paid more, just for something to say and getting back at you for not pulling the logs out of the brush pile.
That's a crying shame. Your offer sounds reasonable if you were going to load and haul the logs yourself.
If the firewood guy really did out bid you, he didn't leave himself much room for profit. I used to wonder how the tree service guys made any money on firewood until one of them told me. He give two quotes, one for taking the tree down, and an additional charge to haul the wood away.
I sell firewood on the side. One full size truckload for $100 delivered and stacked. I will charge extra $ for fuel if it is more than 10 miles away. I don't see how they made any money if they outbid $100/log. That's a LOT of HARD labor for very little $$
Quote from: beenthere on December 13, 2013, 03:10:52 PM
NCDiesel
500 bdft total, or each log?
What were those logs worth to you? Just curious.
Truth be known, possibly the "customer" just told the firewood buyers to take it all for what they were paying.
He may just be telling you they paid more, just for something to say and getting back at you for not pulling the logs out of the brush pile.
500+ft total. The logs were worth $100 to me for quarter-sawing practice. I have not had the chance to get too many straight clear logs, so I thought I would buy them just for the practice. I could have sold the lumber for that if I could not figure out a use.
The "spite and malice" angle crossed my mind, but he did not seem like the type and neither did his wife, who seemed pretty involved.
Quote from: Deese on December 13, 2013, 03:22:34 PM
I sell firewood on the side. One full size truckload for $100 delivered and stacked. I will charge extra $ for fuel if it is more than 10 miles away. I don't see how they made any money if they outbid $100/log. That's a LOT of HARD labor for very little $$
It was 100 for both logs - but still. Firewood only goes for 75-85 per truckload around here.
I just thought I would ask because I would have never guessed I would be competing with firewood guys too.
smiley_whacko Whoops...my bad. I don't always catch all the details. Well, at least it's Friday smiley_whacko
I don't see how firewood processors make money buying logs. Too much work for such little profit. If it was white oak and 500ft I would i payed around $150 for the two. $25-50 could be the difference between getting a deal done. QS white oak around here goes for $4-6bf. You can't let $25-50 hold up a thousand dollar plus deal.
When I bid on something, I bid 2 ways. One is to get it and will bid to the max that my pencil says I can go. Or I will bid low to make sure I have a bid in and that someone who bids lower won't make off with a bargain that could have been mine.
Whether you would have made money or lost money on those logs, you did lose the opportunity to saw some nice logs. That opportunity had value regardless of what the lumber would sell for.
Even with $ aside, using logs as you describe for firewood is a crying shame!
If he bidded too high for the logs you should not have to be concerned about him overbidding you again.
No, there is more firewood than one can shake a stick at here. I am thinking he just wanted it done and gone, had this happen with a pile this past summer. The fellow wanted some custom sawing, but did not want to pay my estimate, his take would have been around $200 less to get rid of it, these things happen,
but the big logs are often hard to come by, my guess would be to do the trimming and bucking, pay, load and go next time, hard call,, hang in there,, david
I get fifty cents a doyle scale foot picked up for that kind of size/quality red oak here in SW MO so sounds like your bid was low to me . I realize the small quanity is worth less where it lays but still should be worth a good bit more than $100.00 where I am located.
Your area may well have much different markets as the wood cutters here would not have payed much if anything to clean it up .
$100 for both logs. What kind of oak was it? Two weeks ago a guy that owns a local sawmill bought two red oak trees in the back of a guys yard. He hired me to cut them down and buck the logs. Both trees were veneer and were straight to about 30 feet where both split to large V. He hired me because he didnt want them to split when they hit the ground and he wanted the logs bucked for the highest value. I wont tell you what he paid for these trees. That's his business. I will say it was over $1000. I will tell you I charged him $225 for about 1 hours work. He was fine with that. I can also tell you he resold the butt logs for a healthy profit and sawed the rest.
There's plenty more logs out there. There'll be more. You can't get them all. I can't see that firewood guys paid more but maybe they did a package deal on the lower grade stuff. If you bid pallet price on grade don't be surprised if you don't get it.
Quote from: JSwigga on December 13, 2013, 04:41:22 PM
I don't see how firewood processors make money buying logs. Too much work for such little profit.
We buy logs all the time. You've got to charge a high enough price to overcome the cost of the logs. I can either be out looking for cheap wood or I can be buying logs and making firewood.
Well I'm a firewood processor and logger and there's times I'd rather pay more for good wood and produce more then deal with crooked stuff. 100 and u haul it that's prolly fair. Especial for just two logs. It is still a shame but on the other hand our $120 7 footers make pallets that someday get burned at a kids bonfire party
American Wood Fibers takes millions of feet of good cedar logs and makes shavings from them every year. Logs that would make some beautiful lumber. It is also a good place to sell junk cedar logs too. But my point is that logs do not always go to the highest value market.
In a general sense we are talking about value added. The value added by making it firewood in an efficient process could be more than making lumber in an inefficient process.
I used to bid against fire wood processors and other "hobby" sawmills like me for "curb logs." Interestingly though, I ended up usually going to a lot of effort and wasted time bidding on a few or couple of nice logs and end up paying the same price I would have paid a professional logger to get me a truckload at the same grade with no more hassle than a phone call. So I now I just drive by the nice logs on the side of the road. Everybody has their own way, I just got tired of the frustration and lost time. I've got to give the other guys credit though, they just wanted the logs worse than I did.
YH
QuoteI've got to give the other guys credit though, they just wanted the logs worse than I did.
that's probably it right there....those other fellas just wanted em. you know how we are when we get after something... :D ::)
One other thing, did he get paid, One can offer a lot with no plans to pay. A couple loggers around here are like that. Steve
around here those logs would cost $100 each. or more.