Lifting with a 3point

[treebucker]

Ok, I'm throwing my 2c into this pointless arguement on bars. smiley_argue01

1- Why would anyone, except a complete noob, need an education about where or what the drawbar is on a tractor?
2- I've been around tractors all my life. Grew up on a farm. Even as a kid the old timers refered to the 3-point bar in question as a 3-point draw bar. Tool bar/3-point draw bar - must be a local old-timer thing?

And to make matters worse, someone I know has a 3-point reese hitch with all the attachments. It's made of heavy square tubing and lacks the series of holes between the lift arms. Considering the arguements, is that a reese hitch tool bar ?  

One thing I like about 'em is you don't have to get off the tractor to adjust the height on what you are hitching to.

[stumpy]

Gee, it didn't sound like an arguement to me.  Anyway, since I was the originator of this question, Thank you all for your replys.  Skidding and pulling logs is not my concern.  My original question realy had to do with lifting.  Occasionaly I'll have logs that I've skidded out that I need to load on my equipment traler.  What I was thinking is a safe way to lift the log in the center and back up to the side of the trailer and set it on.  I'm talking about a height of about 2 feet.  I was thinking of a short boom off the 3point.  I also saw a picture of someones tractor with a sort of fork attachment. 

[Murf]

Please understand, I'm trying neither to lecture or argue, I dislike both.

The facts are clear, tractors roll over and people die from it.

According to the first Goobbermint website Google pointed me to "Overturns have the highest fatality rate for unintentional tractor injures occurring on the farm, according to reports from 29 states covering more than 66 percent of the tractors in U.S. In 1993, overturns accounted for 55 percent of all on-the-farm tractor fatalities reported, with a an annual rate of 4.1 deaths per 100,000 tractors." and it goes on to say there are a little over 4.8 million tractors in the US.

That means somewhere near 200 people a year die from a tractor rollover. 

If it saves just one person, and from just an minor injury or even a scare, I'll keep spoutin' off at da mouth.  ;)

[DR Buck]

My original question realy had to do with lifting.

Stumpy,

I understood your original question and expected someone else to chime in with a good answer.  Not that my answer is any better. .....   :

 I have a set of 3 point mounted heavy duty hay forks that will lift a pretty heavy load, even on my small Kubota.  The problem is that when you lift with them, they will tilt the load towards the tractor.  In order to make them useful for what your asking you would need to be able to have them tilt away (backward) from the tractor.  Both my tractors use a 'fixed' top link. (by fixed I mean it is manually shortened or lengthened).  For what your proposing I think you need a hydraulic link that could be extended once you raised the 3 point hitch to have it tilt backwards and let the log roll off.  This is a pretty good idea though.  Almost like having forks on a front loader.

All that said, raising a heavy log above the axle height will require some front mounted counter weight to be safe.    When I carry heavy hay bales on the Kubota 3-point I keep it low to the ground and have the loader bucket for a counter balance.

[treebucker]

I was just stirrin' the pot for laughs - not to ruffle feathers.

DR_Buck's answers sounds good to me. I second the be careful part - they rare up like horses. This can be real tricky on slopes. :

I've used frontend loaders on many different tractors over the years. Then these forky things came out. I found they have more uses than you can imagine. JD's version mounts both on the loader and the 3-point hitch (but not at the same time :D).

[mike_van]

Stumpy, here's a pic of the 3ph forklift I built. The forks a 6 footers off a Yale lift. I made the frame to fit the cat.2 on my IH.  If you can see it, the top link is a 3" x 20" hydraulic cyl.,  with a  clamp mounted part way along it for the top pin. I get about 3' of travel on the tips of the forks. You can get under any log, curl the forks, carry it safe, then roll it off without getting off the seat. It's moved 2'+ by 16' oak, some big rocks, machinery, even the baby grand piano in our house [with care of course]

[tcsmpsi]

Just as a quick calculation, mike, how high would you think you would have to lift a log with your rig (or one very similar) before there would danger of backward rollover?  On a reasonably level surface, of course.   ;)

[stonebroke]

I use a heavy duty 3pt hitch boom to skid logs. The key is to have lots of weight on the front end. The more weight the more you can pick up safely ( within the capability of your three point hitch lift) My boom goes way out there and can pick things rather high. But I have a frontend loader to counterbalance it.

[mike_van]

I've had the front wheels come off the ground with rocks, very near with some big logs, i'll sticker lumber right off the mill, then move the whole stack with this. You can't roll this over backwards, it only  lifts about 3 ft? The load will bottom itself on the ground before the front end comes anywhere near it's "point of no return"  We gotta use  our brains too, any load that I feel is making the front end light, that tractors in Low range 1 st gear.    I've pulled rocks with the real drawbar [under the belly], you get just the right hitch on a big one, the front wheels will come up & you steer with the brakes.  Like I said though, low range 1 st gear.  Just like the big boys at the tractor pull.  I've heard of , but never seen the old JD's, A's, B's, with the hand clutch would lock up and rotate right around on those 38" tires.  Lot of the guys at the pulls have skid bars under the back to prevent this. If you add a 3 ph log skidder or something like that and pull from higher up, now it's all changed, tip point is worse, etc. 

[Murf]

An average 45'ish hp tractor should have a lift capacity of about 2000 - 3000 pounds on the 3pth, but this is sort of deceiving because it is usually given as "xxx pounds at 24" beyond the lift points." which they kind of assume is where the center of the weight of an implement will be.

If you are talking right on the lower links, it will lift waaay more than you should.  :D

There is another slightly different version of what Mike has, that has an actual lift track like a tow motor does, they will lift a good load up more than high enough to load a truck, or scare the dickens out of you.  

Hitching a log like BeenThere has it will work, and with a good chain hitched around the butt of the log, and tethered fairly short to that big clevis he has on the drawbar, will transfer the weight to the drawbar if it snags too.  ;)

[Minnesota_boy]

I have had an 8 foot boom mounted to the 3 point of my tractor.  Hooking a set of tongs to the end I could load a log over the wheels of my trailer.  If I tried to skid with that unit, I could tip the tractor over, but using it to lift and then back up to the trailer is not a problem.  I hooked a rope to a ring on one of the tongs to help control the rotation of the log.  When I set the log on the trailer, a hard pull on this rope will release one side of the tongs (most of the time) so you can lift them away from the log without getting off the tractor.  Backing up while lifting may also be necessary to get the tongs free.

Be careful!  Anytime you lift something above the axel you have created a potential for tip-over, be it backwards or sideways.  If you use your head about it, it will be quite safe.  If you are the reckless kind, sooner or later you'll wish you weren't. 

[brdmkr]

I really don't like to lift anything heavy with my boom pole.  The front end on my tractor si just too light.  I have really gotten use to being able to steer it.  That gets pretty tough with the whells in the air   I use my boom a good bit, but I never use it to lift anything over 600 lbs or so.  It jes taint worth it.

[PineNut]

I have a 48hp tractor and use my boom pole for a lot of lifting. But with the heavier loads, I fasten closer to the tractor. Don't pick up much at the tip. Most of the logs are fastened right up next to the top link at the tractor. Just don't have much lift height there. When using it to drag a log, I fasten a chain to the drawbar. When moving logs for any distance, I place one on a dolly and pick the other end up with the boom pole (usually at the top link) and take off. (The log is also fastened to the drawbar.) I have moved tree length logs this way.

[Don_Papenburg]

Did you guys ever run a four wheel drive  articulated tractor ,duals all around.  Well I have a hyster fork lift mast ,three stage goes up 20+ foot built  forheavy lifting.  My tractor is an 8430 Deere  not a light wheight tractor .  I had to place a large slab of concrete over a foundation . I could not get close to the foundation so I made a giging to carry the 8'x8' slab of concrete on the tips of the forks  .  I started out going forward and had to turn .  Only thing is the front end of the tractor just swerved from side to side and the tractor went straight.  I had to backup so I could turn .      Keep the loads close and low

[tcsmpsi]

On a 45 hp tractor, I would imagine one could rig a set of forks to pick up most logs one would need on the mill.  Generally, the lift height is fairly constrained.  The chance of backward rollover is practically non existent with such a rig
If a load is heavy to one side, then there is always the pronounced chance the tractor going that direction.  Unpleasantly.

Where I began 'tractoring', it seemed that probably half the work was done with the front wheels off the ground.  Steering with left/right brakes was as much a part of learning to run a tractor as getting it started.

By no means should one ever take them for granted.   I've tetered on the edge working dirt more than I like to admit.  It seems to happen no matter what you do sometimes. 

Rolling sideways is the most prominent tractor malady.  If loaded, with most anything, it can sometimes take only a very small deviation in the surface to start taht energy.

I'm overall pretty slow running a tractor.  Intentionally.   ;D

[Tom]

Me too.  I am amazed at how many folks, especially the younger crowd, treat a tractor as if it were a sports car.  If it has a hydrostatic transmission they use it for a brake and the tractor leaves skid marks as it stops and starts.   Then you see them trying to go throughthe  gears as the go down the road with a load.  Gears are grinding and you just know something is going to drop out of the bottom.

I remember something I heard one time and it has stuck.  "The only reason a tractor has wheels is to get the engine to where you can use it."   I know, we pull stuff with a tractor too but is certainly no hotrod. :D

[Murf]

As has been touched on by several, the scary part about a tractor in the hands of an inexperienced operator is that it will get a whole bunch more weight moving than it is capable of stopping or steering safely. 

In my neck of the (former) woods, there's a lot of former city-slickers living on a few acres, most of them have a little tractor, usually a shiney new 4WD import model, sometimes a restored old chore machine like a Farmall.

It scares the bejeebers out of me when I see them going down the road flat-out with a trailer load of fresh cut green wood on a trailer out the back, usually with a couple of kids piled up on top.  smiley_eek_dropjaw

If some knuckle-head ever pull out of a driveway they'd have little chance of not messin' up bad!!

[pigman]

The facts are clear, tractors roll over and people die from it.

According to the first Goobbermint website Google pointed me to "Overturns have the highest fatality rate for unintentional tractor injures occurring on the farm, according to reports from 29 states covering more than 66 percent of the tractors in U.S. In 1993, overturns accounted for 55 percent of all on-the-farm tractor fatalities reported, with a an annual rate of 4.1 deaths per 100,000 tractors." and it goes on to say there are a little over 4.8 million tractors in the US.

That means somewhere near 200 people a year die from a tractor rollover. 

The above information and the post from Tom reminded me of some information I read in a magazine recently.  It stated that most fatal tractor accidents are caused by rollovers, but most rollovers are caused by high speed driving on roads and not on hilly ground or while the tractor is being used in the normal way. In my area of Ky the land is very hilly and there have been several fatal tractor rollovers and every one was caused by high speed driving on roads or doing something stupid as chasing cows with a tractor. As has been stated, tractors are not sports cars and should not be driven that way.

Bob

[tcsmpsi]

Of course, they tried to sell me one, and folks cant their heads and look bumfuzzled when I explain that I did NOT buy hydrostatic (it's so much faster and all, you know).  One of the ( if not the ) reasons, was just that.  

[treebucker]

A lot of it is how familiar you are with your setup. Some of us grew up on tractors, hundreds of hours [or more] every year, doing everything you can imagine. It gets to where you can look at a job and know wether or not you should even try it.

Says alot! But no guarantees.

Speeding on a tractor can be a problem.  When I was little, I saw one turn into a gravel driveway without slowing down. He didn't make it. He slid across the entrance and hit the bank on the other side. Broke the front end out from under it. The tractor was repaired. Later I saw that same tractor take off down a long steep hill with a hay wagon behind it. No one was on it. It had jumped outta gear. (Yeah, it was a Ford.) It musta been doing 40 when it went into the ditch at the bottom. It stopped quick. The wagon's tongue folded and the wagon ended up on top of the tractor. Scratch one tractor.

Same ditch about one year later. Farmall B (offset engine) spreading seed. Operator was happy to spread seed on up on the hill until it got too steep. He then refused to take it across the hillside with the engine on the downhill side and proceeded to turn up the hill and do a dry run across the top then make another pass with the engine on the uphill side. This angered the elder who took control and ran across there with the engine on the downhill side. He made it about 50' then you know what happened next. I saw him jump off the downhill side and run down the hill with the tractor chasing him all the way. He jumped between two saplings and into the ditch. The tractor almost broke through those saplings. His 1st works were a dressing down the younger for (without being asked to) not getting on the tractor and holding the uphill side down.

Same guy had cleat marks across his chest from running a tractor's rear wheel at high speed over a stump about 20 years before. It threw him in front of the wheel and proceeded to run over him. He spent 3 months in the hospital. Rolling the B was the last accident he had. He finally learned his lesson.

There are several around the neighborhood that are experienced but are still known for running their tractors too fast. I know most of them and suspect every one of them were not exposed to tractors until their late teens. They treat their tractors as off-road sport vehicles. It is amazing how long it takes to break them of the habit. I recently saw a tractor belonging to one of them sitting along the road. It was clear what happened. It came down the hill, turned into a gravel driveway, couldn't make the turn, and broke the front end out from under it when it hit a heavy guard rail.  Story was he had his wife's friend drive it for him. She had never driven a tractor before. She tried to make the turn without slowing down.  It was a new ~90(?) horse Kabota. It sat there for 2 weeks for all to see.  It looked like a trophy.

I've got many more, and uglier, stories. Most I witnessed 1st hand. I've never had an accident on a tractor. I guess it's best to learn from others mistakes and thank God He has protected me.

 

[Murf]

Bob, you raise a very good point, besides the fact that momentum can be a real problem, a tractor is a real go-anywhere vehicle, the deep gearing and big tires, even without 4WD will allow it to go through some pretty tough places.

The problem is that the center of gravity can chabge quickly, what is safe and stable on flat level ground could turn deadly on uneven ground quicker than most would believe.

Stay safe.......

[Lud]

Read this thread with perspective.

Pulling some sticks out of the woods last weekend.., turning up the hill, ground falling off to the right ,she reared up a couple feet in the air and there was that split second when my mind said, "PUNCH THE CLUTCH NOW!!"

Center of gravity had crept up on me.  Been driving this tractor since 1960.  Don't like the Hi HO , Silver stuff at all.One of the highest ever.  Blade on the back was going to keep me from going over...maybe.........

Pulled 3  or 4  more out, ...can't let FEAR rule you... you RULE fear by doing things safely.  Still,  I had to go to the house,  drop a load, and take a shower before I got the stink off me..

Not telling the wife, either...I hate putting a strain on my guardian angel.  'Bout wore that girl out in my Twenties.

[JimBuis]

Okay Lud, I read your post was starting to feel a bit of empathy as I remember things I have done and had my guardian angel whisper in my ear that it was not a good idea, then I noticed that under your post it says you are "left handed".  That explains a lot. ;)

Jim

[Faron]

2-3 years ago, I was combining and watching the farmers across the road haul manure.  One tractor would come up the gravel road full speed, cross the shallow road ditch at an angle, still in road gear, and roar across the field, apparently never having shifted down.   I was sure he would tip over crossing that ditch.  Year or so later, his tractor, maybe the same one, BROKE IN TWO going down the road.  As I understand it, he was pinned to the seat by the steering wheel, and someone had to cut his clothes away to free him.  Now I wonder why that tractor would break in half like that? :D

[farmerdoug]

I find that driveways are there for a reason.  ;D The Peters boys like to drive through the ditches around here too.  Of course they only keep their equipment for 3-5 years then trade on new ones. :  I would not want any of their machines.  The county road commision does not like them very much for that either. :D :D :D

Farmerdoug