Gear Drive Trolley on a Frick?

[JoeBrittany21]

DBlair,

Thanks for sharing that. I was thinking about it last night and your right I have to check that second wheel to make sure my shim work in not changing that dimension. I could probably weld a flange on some of the wheels to make them guide wheels. Is that type of wheel on every axle on that side of the track?

Because of the rain today, I put the set works back together. I had it bolted to the husk temporarily just to work on it.


 

[dblair]

all the wheels on the side away from the blade are like that . the side opposite are like this

  the wood block fore and aft of the wheel scrape the track of dust

[JoeBrittany21]

Ok, thanks for the info. Gives me some food for thought.

[JoeBrittany21]

Ok guys, here is an update on my progress. The bearings, axles and wheels are all in place and everything measures good and seems tight. I flipped the trolleys over and leveled them and aligned them.


 

I was wondering what the proper name for the frame that the dogs slide on?

Anyway, I installed them perpendicular to the trolley. I am not to keen on how the dog carrier frames (thats what I will call them until someone corrects me) stick out past the trolley frame. I have to do some calculating on whether the blade will hit them as set.
I located the dog carriers at 3', 10',  and 17' from the front end of the trolley. I did that figuring I could cut 8' to 16' logs with the first two dogs and 18' and over on the three dogs up to 24'.


 


 


 
I checked the dog's relationship to the frame they run in. It is 90 degrees within a 64th in. Good I believe.


 
But I discovered the dog carrier frames need to be shimmed on the blade side to make the dogs perpendicular to the saw blade.

Please feel free to comment. I am open to constructive criticism. My wife makes sure I get a good dose every now and then.

[beenthere]

was wondering what the proper name for the frame that the dogs slide on?

I believe the knees carry the dogs and the knees slide on the headblocks.

But I discovered the dog carrier frames need to be shimmed on the blade side to make the dogs perpendicular to the saw blade.

Seems the "dog carrier" being the knees, that the knees should be perpendicular to the sliding surface of the headblock. Then the saw is adjusted in relation to the tracks the carriage rides on.

Much is spelled out in the book that Stan Lunstrum published that will help you out.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/circsaw.pdf

[JoeBrittany21]

Originally when I bought this sawmill, I purchased it from an ad that said "Gear Drive Frick for sale" I am new to the sawmill game and I figured it would be a fun rebuild. I found the words Canton Saw Co. on one of the dog frames. So I assumed it was manufactured by the Canton Saw Co.

After much research thanks to a member "AlWOL" and Vintage Machinery. I finally found the exact husk design on a patent dated 1885.
http://www.datamp.org/patents/displayPatent.php?id=20300

So now I believe the mill is an  E. M. Birdsall "New Birdsall Company" which made sawmills around 1885 to 1920 approximately. Which makes the mill even older than I first thought.


 

The patent description and the design drawings are an exact depiction of my mill.
Also, after careful inspection on the pinion drive gear off the mandrel shaft, I believe the cover was put on by someone other than the manufacturer, if you notice in the picture there is diamond plate welded into a box.


  

 

Also other repairs were made using diamond plate for mounting brackets.
Someone who seemed to understand mills made the repairs, it may have been someone on this forum.

[JoeBrittany21]

Knees and headblocks got it. Thank You "BeenThere"

[dblair]

the knees on mine are about 3/8 inches from the blade . this seemed closer than I thought it had to be but by the time I got the husk mated to rails and the drum drive connected this is what it had to be .

[beenthere]

And you are meaning the "knees" being the verticals that hold the dogs can advance that close using the setworks?

Or maybe meaning the ends of each headblock base that the knees advance upon?

Still seems a bit close, either way. But I'd think a stop to keep the knees from advancing that close would be a good idea. If you can hold a 1" dogboard, that seems it should be close enough.

[Ron Wenrich]

The headblock on my mill is about 1/2" from the saw.  That seems to be about the right distance on most mills.  I have clipped my headblocks a few times when I had problems with something pushing the saw.  It usually happens when you saw logs with shake and a sliver gets between your saw and the off bearer.  It usually means that you'll be changing teeth.  If your carriage would happen to go off the track, you can really nail the saw.  I saw the results of that at a mill where a piece of bark fell onto the tracks and the carriage jumped towards the saw right before it hit.  Only 2 teeth were left on the saw.

The knees on these mills don't have any type of limits to them.  On the automatic mills, you can have a limit switch that will prevent the knees from traveling too far.  It is possible to make a mechanical one that will limit the knee travel.

Knees can come beyond the ends of the headblocks.  That is how they are mounted.  But, from an operational standpoint, your actual limits come from how far you can advance without hitting the dogs.  You will hit these much sooner and more often than hitting the headblock.  Most times it will be just clipping the dog.  But, I know of guys that have hit the dog really hard. 

Its best to know how small you can saw without much danger of hitting the saw.  That would be with the dogs all the way to the back of the holder and holding a board.  If you go too thin, you have the problem of the dog board falling off the carriage while in the cut - major problem.  Many handmills can go down to a 1" board.  For safety, I'm most comfortable going down to a 6/4 or 2" dogboard.  I don't saw that small very often, as my sawing patterns take me down to a pallet cant.

[bandmiller2]

Ron covered it,my mill also has about 1/2" between the knees and saw that gives the last board something to sit on.Old handset mills were short on safety and failsafe systems, relying on the skill of the sawyer.You never get over being nervous when you make that last cut to the dogboard.Whats a spoiler is a laser line right where the saw will go. Frank C.

[dblair]

Ron covered it  , mines three eights , and one inch is as close as I saw .

[JoeBrittany21]

Hi Guys, I have one of my Grandsons visiting me for a couple weeks and those ice cream breaks really cut into the mill renovation. Of course he is really good at wire brushing bolts and running for tools. ;D

My clearance from the saw to the headblocks looks like it will end of being 3/8", I cringe at the thought of that.

I was working on the husk today. Took off the board splitter and checked it out. Greased it up and set it up directly in line with the back of the saw blade on the arbor side.


 

I took the mandrel bearing block caps off for the first time and I was happy that the bearings were in ok shape. The one closest to the saw blade had about 7/1000ths clearance. I think that is not bad. I used plastigage to measure the clearance.


 

The bearing on the other end of the shaft was not as good looking so I am considering my options on this one.


 

The mandrel shaft has some lines on it very faint but no signs of really having been hot. So far so good.


 
I am just going to go from one end of the husk to the other and check everything out and make repairs or adjustments as needed.

[Don_Papenburg]

You can get babbet in wire form like solder .  then you can use a welding torch tip to build up the bearing without removing all the old babbet then it can be machined to shape . Clean the crud off the old bearing  and heat enough to puddle in the new babbet into the old  . 

[JoeBrittany21]

Took the mandrel out of the husk so I can check the shaft for straightness. Mic says the shaft is 2-5/8" diameter.


 
  Also gives me a chance to check out the teeth on the friction drive shaft gear. A little greasy but that is good. No overly worn or broken teeth from the visual so far.

  


 

[dblair]

I can see this mill is going to be most perfectly in tolerance old mill that has ever been put back together . that's great , I wish I had that kind of patience .

[JoeBrittany21]

Dblair

I can see this mill is going to be most perfectly in tolerance old mill that has ever been put back together . that's great , I wish I had that kind of patience .

I used to restore old chevy trucks for a hobby. Probably did around 8 of them. My goal was always to take it to a good inspection station and have the truck need nothing. Also having 6 kids may have helped develop patience.

[dblair]

it's going to be a nice mill

[JoeBrittany21]

An update on my Birdsall SawMill:
Since the bearing on the power side of the mandrel shaft was rough  I decided to take the babbitt out and I will  rebabbitt this entire bearing.


 
I also took the drive shaft to the friction drive plate apart and to my delight the bearings are good.


  

On to the question. I have a couple pictures here of the saw guide, I understand about the hardwood dowels that are suppose to guide the saw blade but not touch the blade which I assume this means at the static RPM without a load.
My question is what type of load does this guide get on it, because as you can see in the picture the giude is in bad shape and I am going to make one out of steel and since the one in the picture is cast I was wondering if I have to make it so heavy. Maybe some of you guys have pics of a homemade one that I could get a look at.


 
The broken piece at the dowel cups is not worth fixing I am thinking.


 


 

[ALWOL]

   I don't have a pic of any home-made guides, but I can get some of OEM guides. They need to be fairly sturdy. It seems as though every time I saw a very knotty log one of the the knots will bang against the guide.

     Alan

[NMFP]

The guide on the saw I bought was in rough shape too but I have determined in my life, some people and I mean alot tend to want to lead their saw with the guides instead of leading the arbor.  If you do that, you put additional stress on the steel and if you hit a big knot and the blade dodges harder, there is an enormous amount of tension against the cast or steel guide.

I dont know that I have seen many guides that have not been rewelded at some point.

[ALWOL]

   I have not seen many that have not been welded on either.

   Here is a pic of the one on my small portable mill. It is fully adjustable, and I really like it a lot.


 
   There may be some more pics of other guides in my gallery.

    Alan

[JoeBrittany21]

Ok so then lead the blade into the log 1/8 inch say. Build the guide with substantial ability to resist the blade being driven into the guide as it may deflect off of a knot. Sounds good if I got that right.

[JoeBrittany21]

Alan,
On the picture is there a dowel also on the log side of the blade?

[ALWOL]

   Yes, there is a piece of guide material on both sides of the blade. Those are hardwood, but the graphite/composite material is far superior to wood. If you build your guide from scratch, make sure it will accept a readily available guide material.

        Alan