iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Saw dust on the log

Started by thherd2002, February 19, 2020, 08:56:39 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

thherd2002

Is it normal for this much saw dust to be left on a log (refer to picture)? This is green locust.

 

Nebraska

 Welcome, Is it frozen? The last frozen stuff I cut left more sawdust in the cut than usual. I see you are new. Tell the bunch a little more, where are you? What are you sawing with( mill model, type of band, tooth angle /blade set. You will get more information. Lots to learn from here. 

WV Sawmiller

   Can you increase your cutting speed? If so try that and see if that doesn't leave less sawdust. I have heard Marty Parsons highly recommend faster sawing (I think the term was "saw with it like you stole it"). I think I have more sawdust when cutting with a 4 degree blade than with a 10 degree band but I use mostly 4's because of the type wood I am cutting.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

thherd2002

Thanks for the replies. The log is not frozen, it is a third owner timberking 1600, I'm brand new to milling, the blade is made by timberwolf and it is a .21 7/8. This cut was made running at wide open throttle, and a very slow speed. Any faster, and I get a lot of waves in it. I've been reworking the mill and replacing/adjusting on it as I learn about it. Last night I replaced all of the guide bearings and made a couple of passes. It seemed like it should run faster, and maybe it is what it is, but I had also read that you could tell a lot about your setup by paying attention to the saw dust. This just seemed like a lot of dust left on the log to me, so I'm questioning my knowledge of blades and if I'm deploying the right tools for the job. 

Southside

Sounds like your band is likely dull.  Try putting on a new, sharp, band and try to increase the feed speed.  That sawdust looks like baby powder which is another indication of a dull band, the sawdust should look more like grits.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Banjo picker

Too much set will leave lots of sawdust.  What do you mean by .21?  Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

Sixacresand

I notice the turbo 7's leave less sawdust than the 4° blades, maybe because you can go faster with the T 7's.
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

dgdrls

Welcome thherd2002

I'm thinking similar to Banjo picker, too much tooth set.

Timberwolf recommendations. <b

 

D

alan gage

I'll side with Southside and say I'm suspicious of a dull band. We've all been there when starting out. They don't stay sharp as long as you think they're going to. And no matter how much you wish you can't wish a dull band sharp.

Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

Woodpecker52

  I always have a lot of sawdust on the log no matter how fast or slow but it has never interfered or caused problems.  I usually use a fair amount of water ( dawn, pine sol) on the blade.  I just have a small shop brush at the ready to get them clean and pretty.  I will say I use timberwolf on my 16 inch shop bandsaw and they are the best I have ever used.  I would like to try them out on my mill but  they say you need to run a different tension because they are thinner but they claim the Swedish steel can take more flexing and have a longer life. Maybe others that have tried them will chime in good or bad.  
Woodmizer LT-15, Ross Pony #1 planner, Ford 2600 tractor, Stihl chainsaws, Kubota rtv900 Kubota L3830F tractor

thherd2002

Below is the blade I was using, I did kind of misrepresent the specs on that earlier (I was going from memory, and that was a mistake). It is a brand new blade with the exception of two passes that I made. I guess I was thinking it was me being new that I just didn't know how to choose the right blade for the job (and maybe there are better blades), but what I found this evening was more of a setup problem. I had assumed the mill was operational, since it was being used before I ended up with it, but what I found this evening was that it was missing a set screw for the roller bearings. Which, in turn had the blade turned down. The previous owner had just tightened the top set screw and called it a day. Anyways, I spent the afternoon resetting the band mill up, and I think I've turned a corner, because I made a pass with it and it was able to handle a noticeably faster pass. I ran out of daylight to really test that statement with more passes. I do think there is still an opportunity here for a better blade selection, which is why I'm sharing the specs. I truly don't know much about this yet, and am very appreciative of your feedback. 

Also, I'm using diesel fuel as a blade lubricant.

 

dgdrls

Good news on the maintenance/adjustments

From Timber Wolf blade selector TK 1600 model
Timber Wolf®
173" x 1-1/4" x 3/4" x .021 set (87SS) x .045 thickness
(Part # 173-1143487SS045)

Cutting Applications
Milling Frozen Logs:
Hardwood 13" - 22", Softwood 7" - 12"
Resawing Frozen Cants:
Hardwood up to 12", Softwood up to 6"

Specifications
Width: 1.25"
TPI (Tooth Per Inch): 1.3 (3/4" pitch)
Tooth Design: Timber Wolf
Blade Thickness: .045
Kerf: .087 (.021 set per side)
Tooth Hook Angle: 10°
Tooth Set Pattern: Left/Right/Center
Tooth Hardness: 67 Rc
Hardening Method: Induction
Material: Swedish Silicon Steel


FWIW,
I would look to a 7/8" pitch 1-1/4"X0.045", blade.
There are many good choices including those TW blades.
One consideration is resharpening services and its associated costs
including shipping.
 
D









Southside

The 3/4" pitch is drawing some HP for sure, so that is not helping your feed speed. The set is by no means excessive, so it's not hurting you.  7/8" pitch is more common.  Might want to try some different bands and see if it makes a difference.   
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

ladylake


 The more set = the more sawdust left on the log, does it really matter.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

thherd2002

All good advice. I'm definitely absorbing your feedback. To be clear on why I asked the question, let me say that I was having to run the mill at painfully low speeds to make a somewhat successful pass. Where I'm new, I overlooked some "simple" troubleshooting points and wanted to place blame on the blade (something I'm still learning about). The saw dust seemed to be the low hanging fruit, because I thought my blade just wasn't getting enough out of the way, and I thought that might be creating excessive drag on the blade. My assumption was that it was acting like sandpaper, and robbing power from the machine. 

tacks Y

So are you guys doing this for a living not having to scrap or brush off boards? I have to with a new or dull blade. I may not run it fast enough but on 8' logs I am moving stacking and back to the controls to return. I had a 1600 and do not remember as much sawdust on the board.

Southside

I never scrape boards, just a quick flip at most, often not even that is necessary. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

ladylake

 
I've sawed for lots of customers 98% pick the board up turn it sideways and knock it on the mill to get rid of the saw dust, the other 2% scrape or sweep the sawdust off.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

tacks Y

Thanks guys. Now I wonder what I am doing wrong? The last I cut was yellow and black birch and saw dust was heavier than pictured above. But no lines like above.  I know I can saw faster but mill will be that much father away when back to controls. On the 1600 I could here engine under load. The diesel I have now saws faster and easier. 

ladylake


 Saw at whatever speed you want, it's not going to hurt one bit to saw slower than pushing it hard which is harder on the blade.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

terrifictimbersllc

@YellowHammer where do you get rid of your sawdust on boards, those of you who are pulling the boards forward onto a pallet?
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

YellowHammer

I have very little clinging sawdust.  So its like dry cornmeal, and when the board bounces to the dragback table or drops to the pallet, most of it comes off.  What little stays on gets flipped off when the boards get stickered later in the week.  

I spent years fighting sawdust using drywall scrapers, air compressor, leaf blowers, etc, and one of my favorites was when I mounted a 24" push broom bristle brush inverted under the dragback table, so as the board gets dragged back, the brush automatically brushes off the sawdust on the underside of the board.  It works pretty good.  So I only had to scrape the top.  Now I do nothing, I don't even have a scraper anymore.  Thankfully.  

Sawdust left on sticker stain prone boards is not a good thing, such as maple, poplar sycamore, basswood, etc.  So it needs to come off, one way or the other.  With some other woods, its not so important.

So I try to saw as dry as possible, and this is where the spindle lube comes in.  I'll mix it heavy and turn the water flow down and I still get a clean band and little sawdust.  The sawdust needs to be dry enough to suspend in the recirculating air, in the gullets of the band and stay in suspension, until it get ejected form the cut.  If it's wet and heavy, the sawdust doesn't suspend in the gullets, but lays on the board.  Then it has to be scraped.

Here is a picture of some cherry I just milled, dead stacked directly off the saw.  No sawdust scraping, handling, or even effort was made to remove it.  Just dropped on the pallet with the dragback.  You can see they are clean and mostly sawdust free boards.  If you look close, you can see a little on the tops of a couple of the boards, and a good bit of dry sawdust on the dragback table, thats where most of it falls and I occasionally brush it off, or just let the following knock it off the end of the table to the ground.  



 


YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Rhodemont

Too much water lube and I get a wet mat of saw dust left on the board and the mill strains.  Seems there is just the right tweek of lube on each log pending how hard/wet the log is to have a smooth fast cut with dry dust that drops off.
Woodmizer LT35HD    JD4720 with Norse350 winch
Stihl 362, 039, Echo CS-2511T,  CS-361P and now a CSA 300 C-O

ACman

Been using WM double hard in 10° and hated dealing with the saw dust they left behind. Like YellowHammer and everyone else tried many ways to clean it off. Recently I needed some new bands and saw the WM Vortex and thought i would give them a try. I ordered the double hard in the Vortex and i really like them and is what i will be buying in the future. Its amazing how more dust they bring out comprared to the standard blade. I have only gone through 5 so far cutting white and red oak and a little pine.
Wood Mizer LT-15

Thank You Sponsors!