We drove for an hour through the back roads of WV with the mill and the JD110 in tow to get to the job site. The trees were felled and thrown in a jumbled heap on a hill side so steep that we can not safely pick them up with the forks and carry them to the saw. So we are skidding them about 200' down to the saw on the gravel road. This is working OK and we are not adding much dirt to the logs but they are dirty already. From the discription the lady gave, I thought I was just going to park the saw beside a stack of logs, load and saw. NOT TO BE! I was tempted to load back up and go home. But she is a nice lady and they understand that the job will be costly in time and blades so we will do our best. I guess I'll stop by the hardware store on the way tomorrow and pick up some wire brushes to try and get rid of some of the dirt. Man I love these WV hills but they can be a bear to work on.
Are you taking two trucks to tow the mill and tractor?
With my new mill I've took on a share job. Yesterday I sawed through 3 screws, 1 nail, 1 rock, (didn't make it through) and a couple of bullets. And some of the logs are low firewood quality. >:(
Today I sawed a oak log and it made the nicest hickory boards you would ever want to see...so long as you ignore the PPB holes. ::)
I like to go in and look the logs over before I bring in the mill.
Sometimes the customer just doesn't understand exactly what you mean when you say to stack the logs in a pile. ::)
When it's an hour drive, sometimes you just have to take a chance. I have been burned a couple of times, but I've always found a way to work it out.
Yup, I always carry ½ dozen of these "debarkers". ;) :) Ya gotta replace them when they wear out. ;)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0269.JPG)
Worn out debarkers ;D
Quote from: Larry on September 23, 2010, 07:28:55 PM
Today I sawed a oak log and it made the nicest hickory boards you would ever want to see...so long as you ignore the PPB holes. ::)
I hate PPB........did I say that I hate PPB? Well I hate PPB :).
PPB? What is it?
powder post beetle
Those are three nasty words when used in conjunction >:(.
Quote from: Chuck White on September 23, 2010, 07:38:20 PM
Sometimes the customer just doesn't understand exactly what you mean when you say to stack the logs in a pile. ::)
Sometimes.....doesn't understand exactly what you mean by logs........too :-[ :-[ :-[
Quote from: Larry on September 23, 2010, 07:28:55 PM
Today I sawed a oak log and it made the nicest hickory boards you would ever want to see...so long as you ignore the PPB holes. ::)
If the "worm" holes are in the log when you sawed it, it shouldn't be PPB's. I split some 2' blocks of White Oak this week that had "worm" holes clear to the center. Those 30" logs will already have holes also.
For furniture building lumber, I consider those holes an asset. I've built clocks, bedroom furniture, and other items from "wormy" Pecan. I got a premium for it.
I have a bunch of Red Oak that is full of holes, I want to make paneling out of it for the new house. I consider them a plus for the rustic look I am going for.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10125/bug.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10125/bug1.jpg)
Man this is going slow! With three of us working we are bearly making 800 BdFt a day. We are also stickering and stacking but with my two helpers doing that, I can keep on sawing. It's digging the logs out of the stack that is slowing us down. Half of the logs are just not worth sawing but they still have to be moved. I'll get a picture of this hill side log stack tomorrow.
We shall hold our breath until you post it. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :-[ :o . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Your picture speaks volumes Larry.
I had some kind of little beetles working last night on a job that I'm sawing.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN1065.JPG)
Right through the pine park and had little piles of sawdust, errr, maybe bug dust.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN1067.JPG)
Then some other kind of critter builds a little round nest under the bark??
Couple of weeks ago I finished sawing eastern white pine logs which had sat on skids quite a while. As I was checking around for tools I saw bark which had fallen off under the skids, many pieces, and they were covered on the inside with the holes/swirls in your picture, about 1" in diameter, each depression was lined with a ring of fibers. Some of them had a white larva in them, about 1/2-3/4 " long. I didn't notice it during the day but I was looking at logs mostly from the end . Also wondering what these are.
qweaver,
Little off the subject, but I had an email from a fellow in Clarksburg wanting 60 logs sawed. I'm 3 1/2 hours out so I thought you might be interested. The logs are from a gas well site. If you're interested I'll send his email address.
Sure, I'll give him a call. I appreciate it! The job we are currently doing is logs cut for preparing well sites. Mainly poor quality logs dumpted on the side of a steep hill. I don't mind working them but it's costly in time. But it is still worthwhile doing. We should have taken the dozer...we could have "unstacked" those piles in a hurry. But we have most of the good logs out of the pile now.
Thanks,
Quinton
Quote from: Larry on September 23, 2010, 07:28:55 PM
Today I sawed a oak log and it made the nicest hickory boards you would ever want to see.
An oak log and it made the nicest hickory boards....... wow,,,,, now that's a good sawyer turning oak into hickory.........
I was wondering if anybody was gonna catch that. :D :D But I am a good sawyer. :)
I had a tough portable job not to long ago. It consisted of a log truckload of large madrone with about 24” average. All the logs had been straightened up at either 8’ or 10’. There was a real nice forklift with side shift to handle the logs and the carts that the boards and the tailing were stacked into. There was plenty of room to lay everything out for easy handling. The logs were still nice and green so they cut very well and there was no foreign material in the nice clean logs. I was running new 7* saws at a good clip. Boy was it tough having it so good. ;D
Quote from: Larry on September 25, 2010, 07:27:52 PM
I was wondering if anybody was gonna catch that. :D :D But I am a good sawyer. :)
I noticed it right away Larry, but I didn't comment because I didn't think it was all that remarkable for a sawyer of your notable accomplishments with a brand new "State of the Art" mill. ::)
I was waiting for the rest of that story!
Me too!
Quote from: DanG on September 25, 2010, 09:39:58 PM
Quote from: Larry on September 25, 2010, 07:27:52 PM
I was wondering if anybody was gonna catch that. :D :D But I am a good sawyer. :)
I noticed it right away Larry, but I didn't comment because I didn't think it was all that remarkable for a sawyer of your notable accomplishments with a brand new "State of the Art" mill. ::)
Posted by: Buck
I was waiting for the rest of that story!
Posted by: barbender
Me too!
As well as myself. I saw it right away but I didn't want to be the one to take the bait, as I imagined there might be a punchline coming. So, uh, what was the punchline?
i just figured it was a CASE of stolen idenity! pc
Magicman,
Those little piles of sawdust on the pic of your SYP log are from Ambrosia beetles. They attack dying or just dead SYP like the one in the pic. Ambrosia's are typically the beetle that makes the holes in the solid wood. Bark beetles, like Southern Pine beetle only mine away in the inner bark and cambium. They do the real damage in killing the tree. The Ambrosia's are just secondary opportunists, like a lot of politicians I know.
As to making hickory from oak, Larry is just a modern day Rumplestickskin ;D.
Quote from: WDH on September 26, 2010, 11:17:22 AM
As to making hickory from oak, Larry is just a modern day Rumplestickskin ;D.
I like that...I just may have to use it in my signature line. ;D
Thanks Danny. I have "Ambrosia", and Larry has "Rumplestickskin".
Sounds like the making of a hit country song.
qweaver, are you charging by the bd/ft or by the hour?
Quote from: Magicman on September 26, 2010, 02:44:26 PM
Thanks Danny. I have "Ambrosia", and Larry has "Rumplestickskin".
Sounds like the making of a hit country song.
I believe the correct name of the fairy tale was Rumplestiltskin.
Quote from: carykong on September 26, 2010, 03:26:15 PM
qweaver, are you charging by the bd/ft or by the hour?
We are charging by the hour, plus $30 travel per day, plus blades.
True Okra, but I just quoted it like Danny wrote it. ;) I guess that his version sounds more woodsie. :D :D
Quote from: Magicman on September 26, 2010, 06:27:07 PM
True Okra, but I just quoted it like Danny wrote it. ;) I guess that his version sounds more woodsie. :D :D
I was wondering-- maybe that's why he wrote it that way.
;D
Some people stilt and some people sticker. As for me, I am a sticker :D.
Not sure about Larry, and certainly not casting any aspersions here, but let's not forget the little man had a really bad temper.....here's the end of the story.......
"Perhaps your name is Rumpelstiltskin?"
"The devil has told you that! The devil has told you that," cried the little man, and in his anger he plunged his right foot so deep into the earth that his whole leg went in, and then in rage he pulled at his left leg so hard with both hands that he tore himself in two.
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Two Dannys :o ??? ???
Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on September 27, 2010, 07:40:16 PM
Not sure about Larry, and certainly not casting any aspersions here, but let's not forget the little man had a really bad temper.....here's the end of the story.......
"Perhaps your name is Rumpelstiltskin?"
"The devil has told you that! The devil has told you that," cried the little man, and in his anger he plunged his right foot so deep into the earth that his whole leg went in, and then in rage he pulled at his left leg so hard with both hands that he tore himself in two.
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Yeah, I remember that. And no doubt he didn't ever do that again.
I feel like old Rumple when I saw hickory :).
I'll bet if Rumpie's father had just taught him to saw wood he would have turned out different. Nobody stays in business behaving like that. ;)
I try to always remember the "NO" word when the subject of Hickory comes up. :-\
NO!
I like the sound of that ;D.
The other NO is sawing utility poles and bridge timbers !!! :-\
Put your foot down!! But not like Rumpie! :D :D :D
Long time ago sawed 150 year old barn beams 5x7's into half (two 2-1/2 x 7's). Pine. About 18 of them. Took 4 blades. Most of the time was spent drilling out square nails. This was the week before I bought 2 metal detectors.
dj,
you musta spent a lot of that 7 hours pullin and drillin out nails. even if i sawed them 1 at a time on my manual mill i could do it in less than 2 hours. 1 cut each right? pc
Yes it was 1 cut each and most of the time pulling metal, but a lot also learning to cut metal filled boards straight.
What I learned that day about sawing metal has been very valuable to me since. The main thing is this....that it is not about avoiding ruining blades, but avoiding ruining wood. If you're going too fast when you hit too much metal, the blade will dive or climb. That ruins one side or the other. On this occasion there were very old boards at stake. The key is to sight the line of the cut as it comes out of the board, cut very slow, and make sure you're going straight. Be ready to stop on a dime. If you think the cut is drifting then stop and go measure it don't take chances. Several times it was up an eighth, and I would back out and turn the beam around and cut in from the other end. There are 2 types of dull blades, one that will cut straight if you're going slow enough, and one that won't no matter how slow you go. One can cut through a few nails and still be able to cut straight but you have to know whether you're cutting straight or you'll ruin wood.
Also about pulling nails....old square nails don't "pull", they will break. After trying various things including a 3/4" hole saw that would just plug up with the wood, I found the way to get these out was to chase a hole down each of the 4 sides of a nail with a drill bit about the same diameter as width of the nail. Afterwards the nail is surrounded by 4 holes, and one can grab it with a needle nose pliers, wiggle a while, and pull it out.
p.s. check out the "pile" of sawdust in the above photo! that's a day's work!!
Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on September 29, 2010, 01:00:22 PM
p.s. check out the "pile" of sawdust in the above photo! that's a day's work!!
That might be a record for smallest amount of sawdust for a successful day's hard work sawmilling.
Mill lived up to its name that day. 8) 8)
qweaver,
Is the job I recommended you for? If so, I now understand why you said I should be glad I didn't take it. Sorry, maybe the next one will be a lot better.
was the pile of nails bigger than the sawdust pile? 6 hours is a lotta time pullin nails.pc
Yep Bugdust, it's that job. I don't mind the job. It's just hard to give the customer value for the dollars spent when working with dirty, hard to get and low quality logs. I guess he contacted you first and when you did not take the job, a past customer of mine gave him my phone number.
Quinton
PC, very funny, but close, metal pile was a baggie full. One of them was about 1/2" diameter and 7" long.
Quote from: Magicman on September 28, 2010, 02:18:51 PM
I try to always remember the "NO" word when the subject of Hickory comes up. :-\
Magicman,
Is cutting hickory rather difficult? I have a request to cut some and wonder
what to look for. Only 2 or 3 logs but I haven't cut any hickory or had any
requests for it.
______________________
Charles sling_shot
Quote from: Slingshot on October 01, 2010, 09:08:09 AM
Quote from: Magicman on September 28, 2010, 02:18:51 PM
I try to always remember the "NO" word when the subject of Hickory comes up. :-\
Magicman,
Is cutting hickory rather difficult? I have a request to cut some and wonder
what to look for. Only 2 or 3 logs but I haven't cut any hickory or had any
requests for it.
______________________
Charles sling_shot
Yes I am wondering too, what is the deal with hickory? I know it isn't fun cutting hickory in the woods that stuff will split like nothing else I have ever seen can be real dangerous. tc
i cut some hickory now and then. i think our types are bitternut and mockernut. they dont have the long hairy stringy bark. the insides are a lot of sapwood and a very hard heart. most of mine ends up as pallet material. the hickory we have is a shot in the dark. some good some not so good. they will have ingrown bark and doty spots on some logs that look good. the sap on the hickory we have is the worst trouble for me. it wants to stick to the blade.
i dont get to cut much pine so i guess our hickories feel the need to make up for the lack of pine sap troubles.pc
Hickory is hard as a rock, and if it's already pretty dry, than it's hard as diamond, which makes for slow careful cutting. I've tried making beams from hickory- both boxed heart and not: they split so bad drying, all I ended up with was firewood. I've cut lumber also, mostly 4-4: splits so bad wide that I should have just cut it into narrower boards to begin with, plus it wiggles and squiggles and what-not pretty good. Now for the good news: if you ever do get some decent, dry lumber, it makes beautiful furniture and cabinets...
Pecan on the other hand (although I've only cut a half dozen logs, mostly pretty good size in the 30+" range) make great lumber and it doesn't check too badly drying. I've made a few things with this wood and the products are great (for me, given my skill level) but very hard to work: tried belt sanding some slabs that wouldn't fit in my 13" planer, and wore myself out before I got half finished- that project is still sitting in my barn waiting...
BTW, it's been said on the forum that pecan is very much like hickory, but that's not been my experience. Anyone offers me pecan, I'll take it; hickory makes good firewood if you can keep the powder post beetles out of it (I couldn't)....
Lj
My bad experiences came from sawing Hickory that had been down for several months. How many? I really don't know. I do know that the logs were dry. Virtually no moisture. Maybe if I had been using 4° blades it would have gone better. This was my first experience and it was miserable. That customer and I talked about it a few months ago. He finally burned the lumber in his fireplace.
I sawed another job that I know the tree had been down less than 6 months. It was easier, but still bad. This was an 18" tree which turned out some beautiful lumber. I saw pictures of the table that was built out of it. Really nice.
I suspect that fresh sawn Hickory wouldn't be so bad. It's just easier to say no, and then negotiate. ;D ;D
There are two types of hickories. There the true hickories like mockernut and pignut and shagbark, then there are the pecan hickories like pecan, bitternut, and water hickory. They are all hard as hades and attract PPB like a moth to a flame. They are all pretty bad to warp, twist, split throw off sparks, and frustrate wood workers. If you can sand hickory or pecan, you can sand anything.
We are now working on our third stack of logs and this one is much better. Mainly straight logs and in a fairly neat and easy to access area. But they are still very dirty with no easy way to clean them. I hate not being able to mount a debarker on the LT28 as this might be a solution to the dirt problem. But the blades have been lasting OK. Not as good as clean logs but better than I expected.
There are a lot of wells being drilled in WV and saw jobs like this one are common. It turns out that two other mill owners had turned down this job before the owner called me. I expect that the same conditions that I'm facing on this job would be the norm. The site prep crews are not thinking of ease of sawing when they stack the logs. That's too bad for the land owner. I'm getting less than half of the production than I would get in my saw yard. I considered sorting the logs and hauling them to my yard but then the lumber would have to be hauled back and stacked...so probably not any better for the customer. It has taken us five days to saw about 3500 BdFt. This last stack will go much faster tho'.
Hey that guy in Clarksburg e-mailed me also. I passed his information to another guy but he is to far for either one of us to go to. Glad you got the job. I honestly did not think of you but hopefully will remember next time someone form up there asks. good luck.
We finally go into some good size, straight logs yesterday and we made as much lumber in two days as we had made in the previous four. Nice clear boards too. Just one more day of sawing but we are going to the Forest Festival tomorrow and we'll finish Monday. This kind of work is just too hard for two old farts like us.
We left a lot of logs on the ground that were just not worth the work required to get them on the mill to saw. Dirty, twisted, and small diameter. But there is a lot of oak, cherry and ash that would make good firewood. I told the owner that I might come back with my log splitter and make firewood. I would have to pay him something but it would be a small amount. I might offer a price per load that we haul out. I've never sold firewood so I don't have a clue about the market. I do know a guy that's in the tree removal business and he sells out of firewood every year. I've got a feeling that it would be a lot of work for very little profit. But I hate to see these logs go to waste.
Quote from: Qweaver on October 22, 2010, 01:42:02 PMI would have to pay him something but it would be a small amount.
I've never sold firewood so I don't have a clue about the market.
I've got a feeling that it would be a lot of work for very little profit.
Don't pay for firewood. Unless you have a big firewood processing machine (and you would know if you did) ;D there is a very low margin on firewood. Key is to find a strong, dependable person who is out of work and will work for cheap to cut and split for you (on a per cord basis, not hourly), get your wood for free or as a byproduct of your other endeavors, and you may make a profit if you don't have to spend much of your own "premium" time on it yourself. That's my experience, that's what we currently do, just to process the inevitable wood we have to carry away from take-downs and prunings. It can be a profitable enterprise in conjunction with a sawmill as you sell slabwood-- you don't have to split most of it, saving you processing buck$.
The farther north you live, the more potential there "may" be for profitability of firewood, as people need more wood to stay warm. Then again, it takes a lot of wood down south as houses are less likely to be well insulated, at least older houses.