Hand filed over machine ground

Bandmill Bandit · July 17, 2012, 10:33:57 AM

I hand file my rakers when i notice the bite is not as good and or the shavings getting too fine and I file em by hand. I used to use one them gauge/guide thingys but that thing just gets in the way now and slows me down. I do use it now and then just to check my free hand accuracy but that lasts for a bout 2 or 3 teeth till i know i am still bang on with my filing.

HolmenTree · July 17, 2012, 10:36:45 AM

To add to what I said earlier about not touching the D.Gs on my 372XP -22" even when the cutters are filed down to about half size.
I run a 8 T rim sprocket on the saw, the 372 has enough power to handle it. At this setting the D.Gs clearance is pushing below .010 but with the 372's high chain speed the chain still cuts well.
Doing arb work where metal and stones in the wood is common a high D.G also offers protection from severe rock out damage, a finer chip means I can hold an edge better on my sawchains. Take a bigger bite and the cutter injests more foreign matter.

Interesting thing about the Carlton File-O-Plate when Ray Carlton invented it long before many members on here weren't even born yet, was he found a sawchains D.Gs had to be progressivly lowered to a higher # right down to when the cutters are filed to the smallest size to be efficient. New chain D.G.s starts at .025 and ends up at .038 at the bottom.
The File-O-Plate is designed to do this.

Bandmill Bandit · July 17, 2012, 10:43:33 AM

Yup Holmen tree you are right about the Carleton file o plate and that is precisely why it stays in my chain saw case. Keeps me accurate as I file out the chain even though I only use it as a spot check of my work. Wouldn't be with out it.

Sharp files are just as important as accuracy in your filing. I keep at least 2 new files with me all the time besides the one i am using.

Piston · July 17, 2012, 11:28:35 AM

I do have, and use, the Carlton File O Plate, however, I'm not sure if I'm using it correctly? I know it is very basic, but sometimes I'm not sure if I have it seated correctly. I do understand the "progressive" filing aspect of it though, and I did learn a lot in the "how a chainsaw cut's" pamphlet that I believe was put out by Carleton.

Since this thread is about hand filing: If you find that the saw is cutting to the left or right in the cut, like when bucking a tree, how do you know which cutters to file down more? The left cutters or the right? (assuming that the bar is not the culprit in the first place)

Bandmill Bandit · July 17, 2012, 11:59:46 AM

I used to file with both hands from both sideS of the bar and fought my saw wanting to pull to the left as I cut. I learned to file with one hand and from the same (right) side of the bar for both left and right teeth. Seems I file much more consistently this way. My saw will pretty much "fall" straight through the log with just my right hand holding the saw and little or no down pressure from me.

I think was getting better edge on the left teeth and there fore the saw tended to want to angle to the left. In other words the right side teeth were not getting sharpened the same and there for did not cut as good. Just my theory based on my experience. I am sure some one will have a more technical explanation than this.

beenthere · July 17, 2012, 12:01:12 PM

Piston
Just looking at the teeth should give you the clue to what is wrong. Angles would be the second thing I'd check, after looking to see if the cutting edge is sharp (I do that best with a 10X hand lens).
What feels sharp and looks sharp can sometimes fool what is really sharp.

mad murdock · July 17, 2012, 01:06:12 PM

I leaarned how to hand file using the File O Plate. Handiest little tool for a chainsaw user you could have! I use a Raker file, and file mebbe 4-5 times during the life of the chain. A lot depends on your saw, and your chain/bar/drive sprocket setup. It is easy to take too much off the D.G's and dog your saw down if you don't have enough power to carry yourself through the wood with a bigger bite. if you are like me, and are using a larger powerhead with a smaller than average bar, you can get away with a little more aggressive setup on your chain, as long as you are in wood that doesnt require all the power to pull through either. A lot of variables. I remember when i was logging full time, if I was going to be in softwoods for a while, I would setup the chain to cut more aggressively as it meant more work getting done over a given amount of time-time=money. If I was in hardwoods say Oak, Maple, Yellow Birch, etc, I would back off on the agressiveness, and still be able to cut good. FWIW.

lumberjack48 · July 17, 2012, 02:27:42 PM

The picture i showed is not the way i filed my chain, this is factory filed, like you said, i was showing what to look for.

I'm going to get a chain and have the wife file it to my spec's. As soon as i can get it done I'll post pictures.

mad murdock i still have a File-O-Plate in my wallet [40 yrs], best raker gauge you can use.

Al_Smith · July 17, 2012, 07:45:25 PM

I personally don't take the rakers any deeper than the factory 25 thou .Now maybe cutters working in green felled stuff might benefit at 30-35 thou but 95 percent of my stuff is dead standing .Fact I doubt I cut over a dozen green trees a year and those are storm damaged or hazard trees .

Here of late it' s been dead ash trees and let me say they are hard as a rock .You file often cutting those things.Some times you don't make a tank full in between .

thecfarm · July 17, 2012, 09:45:43 PM

Piston,with me,it's most time when the saw motor is on the right side. I have a hard time getting a good edge on that side. When the motor is on the left I can get at the teeth better and do a nice job. When my saw kinda starts to get sideways,I put the motor on the right side and give it a couple swipes and I'm good to go.Most times.Took me a while to figure that out. I know it sounds odd to all of you,but been doing this for 30 yeras now and it works for me.

Dave VH · July 20, 2012, 06:51:58 PM

I only hand filed for a long time. Now I usually use a rotary tool (dremel), and that seems to work better for me.
I do have a question though. I never know when to throw away a file. How do yall know when the file is done?

thecfarm · July 20, 2012, 09:24:56 PM

When it doesn't "bite" anymore. I can tell by the feel of it,or lack of resistance when filing.

John Mc · July 21, 2012, 05:12:43 PM

I know my files would last a good bit longer if I could keep them from loading up with crud... But I generally don't take the time to clean them out once they re loaded up.

tyb525 · July 21, 2012, 05:15:29 PM

I use a stiff wire brush, held at the same angle as the teeth on the file, to get most of the junk out. Really helps extend the life of the file.

Ron Scott · July 22, 2012, 06:17:29 PM

I do the same. They make a flat wire brush file cleaner. I also use a tooth brush or oil brush to clean the clain and saw parts.

lumberjack48 · July 22, 2012, 09:18:08 PM

I always bought files by the doz. for the crew. I liked to by a Nicholson file from a hardware store. To me it is 10 times the file, when you make a stroke you can see the filings fly off the file. The thing is to make sure all the oil is off the cutters, make a couple cuts an check. Then when filing tap the file once in a while to keep it clean. When done filing put the file back in the card it came in. I got a lot of use out of one by taking care of it. I carried it in my pocket, i never knew when i'd need a file.

The files by the doz. might last 2 to 4 days, depended how often i had to file. The Nicholson would last 2 to 4 weeks as long as i kept it out of oil and didn't get it wet. By the way nobody used my Nicholson.

John Mc · July 23, 2012, 06:51:18 AM

I visited one of the Nicholson File manufacturing plants in Cullman Alabama about 20 years ago. We were buying some used wire forming equipment from them. It was quite an interesting operation.

At that time, it was a division of Cooper Industries. Cooper merged with Danaher Tools in 2011, Danaher sold the plant to Apex. Danaher closed that plant and several other US manufacturing facilities later in 2011 and consolidated those operations to facilities in Columbia, Mexico, and Brazil.

John Mc

Al_Smith · July 23, 2012, 08:30:48 PM

On that I wish them well as long as they sell stuff to the Mexicans ,Columbians and Brazilians .If they sneak in back in here from wence it came I hope they go bankrupt . >:(

Dave VH · July 23, 2012, 08:37:04 PM

thanks guys, some good tips. I've never given much thought to taking care of my files that way, no wonder they seemed to stop working quickly

Clam77 · July 23, 2012, 10:17:02 PM

I've found that Nicholson makes a better file by far - the metal is harder than the metal you're filing and simply just works better.... but also makes them more expensive. I think the last 3/16" one I bought was around $5.

Incidently LJ48... Even Nicholson is like everything else now and comes in the bubble-packaged plastic wrap now... no more are the days of getting one in paper/cardboard. :-\

tyb525 · July 24, 2012, 12:23:57 AM

I like Pferd files myself.

mad murdock · July 24, 2012, 12:55:05 AM

I don't know who makes the woodsmans pro branded files for Bailey's, but by the dozen they come in a box wrapped in wax paper, and are pretty good files. Simonds files are good as well, and still come in waxpaper inside the cardboard box. I think there isn't a file made in he states anymore Al, Simonds comes from either Honduras or India, depending on which pattern file you buy. Pferd is Germany I think. Mebbe someone has a line on US made files still?

Al_Smith · July 24, 2012, 04:55:44 AM

Save Edge is made in Xenia Ohio 8)

mad murdock · July 24, 2012, 02:05:13 PM

checked them out Al, good to know that a quality USA made file is available. Also great to see that they can resharpen files! Very good resource, Thanks!

Al_Smith · July 24, 2012, 07:05:42 PM

I've heard good reports on them but never used them myself simpley because I have files galore .I will order some though the next Baileys' order I put in if they still carry them .Funny I have all kinds of file sizes except 3/16".Since I recently acquired an 024 that runs .325 chain I'll need that size .