Central Boiler 760HDX - Montana

[DDW_OR]

starting this thread for my Central Boiler 760HDX install and future notes
Classic Edge HDX Outdoor Wood Furnace | Central Boiler

will be heating for the following

Loop 1,    1-1/4"
100 ft run
House, forced air
House, Hot water
Attached 2 car garage converted to a work shop
Hot tub in Garage> 2025 update = No

Loop 2,    3/4"
50 ft run
30x60x14 polebarn, just above freezing
30x20x10 work shop inside polebarn

Loop 3,    3/4"
100 ft run
Greenhouse, 10x26x10 Harbor Freight, with ALL modifications
will be putting an insulated pit under the Greenhouse, then Pex loop, then soil
may use an old hot water heater for thermo storage, anti scald valve to keep the soil at 50 deg?
Temp controlled Greenhouse pump from Thermo storage to soil loop. runs only as needed.

Oregon - Central boiler 750
NEW Central Boiler Install in Firewood and Wood Heating

Oregon - Moving this Greenhouse to Montana
starting a HF Greenhouse in General Board

++++++++++++++++++
this area for future notes

Conclusion
Central Boiler 760HDX - Montana in Firewood and Wood Heating

[DDW_OR]

Trenching

name each trench.
my trenches are in a Y shape with the top of the Y connected, that is T3
the OWF is at the branch of the Y
T1 = House to Polebarn
T2 = Pole barn to Greenhouse
T3 = Hose to Green house

color code the black poly pipe
Red = T1 Polebarn to House
Yellow = T1 Polebarn to OWF
Green = T2 Polebarn to Greenhouse
White = T3 House to Greenhouse

Blue 2 inch sch80 = new power panel to house basement

T1 contains
1.25 Thermopex
2-2-2 power cable
12-12-12 for 3-way switch
empty 1.5 inch black poly pipe, 100 PSI rated
coax cable, future intercom ??
10-10-10 power to OWF
empty 1.5 inch black poly pipe, 100 PSI rated to OWF

T2 Contains
3/4 Thermopex
empty 1.5 inch black poly pipe, 100 PSI rated
coax cable, future intercom ??

T3
10-10-10 Power cable
3/4 Thermopex
empty 1.5 inch black poly pipe, 100 PSI rated
coax cable, future intercom ??



 

Metal pipe A is layed across ground for reference
all 3 Thermopex are tied together at B
 

[DDW_OR]

use a ratchet strap to pre-bend the thermopex



 



 

A = layed across ground for reference
B = old electrical line
C = Metal pipe pounded down to mark where the trenches branch

[DDW_OR]

Bobcat E80
Did not use the grapple or Rotator, not strong enough
and a ratchet strap to rotate the OWF into place.



 

[DDW_OR]

bottom View of the OWF

about a 4 to 5 inch wide base

[DDW_OR]

Ratchet strap to pre-bend pipe




Tools I used to expose the Pex pipes
Saws-all to cut Thermopex to length, longer that you think is needed
Angle grinder to cut outer green casing
Sharp knife to cut foam

 

 

[Walnut Beast]

Great information and pictures 👍.

Do you have this in the house? Dual Heat System In-Floor Radiant/Forced Air

I assume you have a smart phone. Pretty handy with all the information on it

[Walnut Beast]

I was confused but looking a little more it looks like it's your second one. What improvements or differences have they made on the new one. I see you seemed to have a fair amount of trouble but not enough to get another one.

[DDW_OR]

Do you have this in the house? Dual Heat System In-Floor Radiant/Forced Air
I assume you have a smart phone. Pretty handy with all the information on it

all locations will be Forced Air. no in-floor heating
except the future greenhouse that will have in-ground and Forced Air

Dual Heat, OWF and Natural gas

Iphone 8, 256G memory

In Oregon i have the older 750 with the heat exchanger inspection plates inside the firebox

....What improvements or differences have they made on the new one......

this 760 HDX is in Montana and has all of the modifications i told a Rep at Central boiler when i visited the manufacturing plant several years ago
rotate heat exchanger 180 deg, put a door on the backside for access
stepper motors instead of solenoid
stainless steel instead of carbon steel
spin the downdraft so it re-burns
change from the standard non-WIFI Firestar to the one with Internet connection

........ I see you seemed to have a fair amount of trouble but not enough to get another one.

do not understand

750 had LOTS AND LOTS of trouble. mostly from me doing long slow burns
was planning to heat house, DHW, polebarn, greenhouse, shop. but only had the house and DHW in use

the 760 HDX is brand new and as of this posting has not been fired up.
will be planning to heat house, DHW, garage, polebarn, greenhouse, shop, chicken coop

DHW = Domestic Hot Water.

the 760 HDX system is being installed this week, will post more when they are done.

I fire the 750 on a water temperature status.
( it is oversized for the current heat demand. record low in Glendale OR is -1 deg F )
sequence is:
fire
let OWF water temp get to normal High
then do not load any more wood.
let fire die
then for the next 4 days watch OWF water temp
when it drops to 100 deg or less then, pump the chains hanging in the heat exchanger
then re-start fire
this allows the reaction chamber to reach the High temp to burn the Creosote off the heat exchanger

[DDW_OR]

in Oregon with less snow i had purchased 2 of the Harbor Freight 10x12 greenhouses
but in Montana with much more snow i plan to get a different, stronger greenhouse 9x35, 6MM double wall
plan to dig a pit 4 ft deep under the GH, line the pit with foam
then add a foot of soil, then several loops of PEX
then 3 ft of soil
i do not want it water tight, so I will punch some 2 inch holes in the foam

[sublime68charger]

My 760HDX thread is here I'll be following along and need to read threw yours but thought you might want to take a look?

Sublimes Central Boiler 760HDX in Firewood and Wood Heating

[DDW_OR]

now for the Firestar controller

Dashboard


 
Furnace Settings
must be changed at the Firestar controller, not from the Web page
 

 
History from the time of the first fire.
First fire was with scrap wood






 


 

[sublime68charger]

The graphs are fun to have to know what your stove is doing that is for sure!

[DDW_OR]

Here are the full day charts from Sunday
the previous charts where on a 24 hour basis, so would include part of the previous day.



 

 

[DDW_OR]

Went on a 5 day trip
here are the charts


 

 

[DDW_OR]

thermo photos with the Flir C2

the color bar on the right shows the max to min temps
the temp in the top left is what the center circle is


 

 


 

 
the door over the pumps

FYI - the closer the camera is to the object the more accurate the measurement

[Dan_Shade]

Fahrenheit?

That's cool. 

[PoginyHill]

Nice look at the temps on your 760. I glued foam board to the inside of my pump access panel. It was quite warm with no insulation on that cover.

[DDW_OR]

Plan to do the same 
And insulate the pipes 

[DDW_OR]

Fahrenheit?

That's cool.

Fahrenheit Yes

[DDW_OR]

◄▀►◄▄►◄▀►◄▄►◄▀►◄▄►

now for the review
Pro:
the mess of having the wood heat is all outside
heat is stored in the water
one fire to heat several buildings. house polebarn garage shop greenhouse
bugs and spiders are not carried into the house
have heat for when the world goes #%$$%#%$$%#$%@#%$%$#

Con:
i can buy a lot of natural gas for the $30,000 ++ that the furnace and install cost
or a lot of firewood for the wood furnace that still is in the basement.

Conclusion:
would i have done this knowing what i know now. Yes

[DDW_OR]

partial cleaning

tools from Central boiler


 

 

my tools


 

 

[DDW_OR]

the cleaning 50%
in late spring i will do a 100% cleaning



 

 

 

[sublime68charger]

Why you clean it out?

How due the Heatexchangers in the back look?

I pulled the Tubrolaters out of mine last year and I'm still burning the same amount of wood but don't have the build up in the back like I did with the turbolaters.

Though over half of my wood is more on the not dry side than dry so I get build up from that.

But I am hoping to have next year's wood cut by this spring vs the last 3 years when I have been cutting in the fall to make enough for the upcoming winter.

[beenthere]

Try to give your wood at a minimum of 12 months seasoning time (works for ash) and add another 12 months if oak. 
You will be amazed at the extra heat from your wood if you do. 

[DDW_OR]

Why you clean it out?

How due the Heat exchangers in the back look?

having trouble getting the chamber to 100%, usually 75%
so since the fire was out, decided to do a partial cleanout
could not remove the Tubrolaters. so will try again next time
forgot to take photo
have plans in 2023 to extend the leantoo, to be over the sawmill, Fire Wood  processor, and firewood

[PoginyHill]

In my experience, less dry wood will lead to poor reaction chamber performance. A good bed of hot coals will help.

[Rhodemont]

I completed the installation of a Heatmaster G7000 in October.  Did it all myself with a few phone calls to the dealer and plumbing supply.  Toughest thing was working with that insulated PEX tubing pipe, it was like wrestling a bull.  It is now heating the house and workshop off the barn.  Next year the old garage/barn will be coming down and a new timber frame raised.  The second circulating loop on the G7000 will go to the new garage.  The currently operating heating loop goes to a 70 plate heat exchanger just above my Viessman oil boiler.  A pump circulates through the heat exchanger to the oil burner keeping it hot all the time so it does not need to fire.  This heats the domestic water, first floor radiant heat, and second floor base board plus a zone going out to the shop.  The Viessman has gone off a couple times because it is computer controlled with outdoor sensors, ramp up /down curves, and day/night settings.  I have been adjusting all these settings so the Viessman does not sense the temp drop in the evening and fire to ramp up the slow to reacting radiant heating.  And also not to fire fire in the morning when it wants to get ready for domestic hot water use.  Years ago when I installed the Viessman it took a couple months to get all the setting just right.  Once it was running I removed the Consolidated Dutchwest wood stove from the fire place hearth.  For the past 36 years that was the primary source of heat for the first floor burning abut 5 cord/year.  In it's place for some heat and ambiance I installed a Jotul Sebego gas stove.
Still have more to learn but so far everything is going very well.

[beenthere]

In my experience, less dry wood will lead to poor reaction chamber performance. A good bed of hot coals will help.

Is that "less-dry wood" or meaning "less dry-wood" ?   ;)

[PoginyHill]

More wet.  :laugh:

[Dan_Shade]

Do any of you use creosote sticks or powder to assist in outdoor boiler cleaning? 

[PoginyHill]

I do not.

[trapper]

soda cans

[DDW_OR]

soda cans

please explain how burning aluminum will help with creosote

[beenthere]

Have heard of that trick, but didn't see any effect when I tried it. 

Googled, and read this:

In fire tests conducted on aluminum materials, it was found that when fire temperatures exceed the melting point (which occurs at a range of 600-660°C), aluminum surfaces that are exposed to the fire can melt, but do not burn.  Heating the cans causes an increase in heat in a chimney which can help prevent creosote from building up on a clean chimney. However, aluminum oxides are very stable and do not react to high temperature. This means that there will not be much of an impact on built-up creosote.     

[DDW_OR]

found that the furnace was not burning correctly
every time i closed the firebox door there was a "Roar" from the air box
last time smoke came out of the air box.

so i opened the exchanger door on the back
the turbulators where completely plugged with creosote
removed all of them, then used the propane torch "weed torch" to burn the creosote off
then scraped, then burn, then final scrape
the creosote also glued the door insulation to the exchanger
plan to get some roofing flashing to place in between the door and the exchanger
not connected to either one except by friction.





 


 



 

[beenthere]

What is your conclusion about reason your creosote build-up happens so quickly? 

My guess is wood too wet.

[DDW_OR]

What is your conclusion about reason your creosote build-up happens so quickly?

My guess is wood too wet.

the softwood i am burning is from live trees that blew down 2 years ago.
so the moisture content is low, but the sap content is high

[Ianab]

Not sure on your boiler design, but softwoods will generally burn OK with a hot burning fire, but all sorts of smoke / creosote if they are dampered down too much.  We don't run the larger wood boilers here, just smaller inside wood burners. But a good method with pine etc is to only part load the fire, and let it burn a smaller but hot fire. You have to feed it small amounts more often of course, which is easy if you are sitting beside it in the lounge. Stacking the fire full, then closing the damper can cause problems. 

I don't know if that applies to your situation, but is it possible to run some small loads during the day to get the heat up and burn off some creosote? I'm just thinking the dry softwood flares up into a hot flame, the boiler senses it has enough heat, and damps the fire too much, to a smouldering creosote maker. 

Other option would be to mix of wood in some slower but longer burning woods.

[DDW_OR]

Good advice for a standard furnace 

But this is a computerized down draft furnace 

 

[Ianab]

But this is a computerized down draft furnace

Can the operating parameters be tuned to better handle the softwood? The fact that the parameters can be adjusted suggest there are reasons you might want to adjust them. 

Also is the amount of air for the "low" cycle adjustable? This would run the fire a little hotter during the low phase, but not so much that it overheats or never switches to the high burn. 

Really just thinking out loud here, as I've never had experience with this sort of unit.  But the computer should be able to do similar sort of adjustments to the fire as a person tending it manually would, and because all wood isn't the same, the adjustments should vary according to the fuel used. 

[DDW_OR]

Yes the settings are adjustable.
i am waiting for this load of wood to finish. then i will inspect the exchanger

looked at the burn history today. every burn got to 100%

[DDW_OR]

storm warning
snow accumulations of 2 to 5 inches with higher amounts near Flathead Lake

so am going to the furnace to re-load and inspect

Heat exchanger is nice and clean. will post how it is in late January



 

[PoginyHill]

That creosote building is certainly not right. I have the 750 (no turbulators and no refractory cylinder in the reaction chamber). Essentially the same operation as yours. I have never had that much build-up, even when I burned less than ideal wood.
My suggestions:

• Reduce the differential to 10 deg
• Raise the setpoint to 190
• Load only enough wood to last about 12 hrs

If you load too much, it may not allow the fire to get hot enough. This is how I operate mine and have never had creosote problems on the exchanger.

[DDW_OR]

I have a 750 in Oregon 
See my first post 

[Dan_Shade]

I've been running a 760 since mid November, with mostly green wood. 

Over the past few days, the stove wasn't running efficiently, would not stay over 50%

I opened the back up to clean out the heat exchanger area, the turbulators are a pain to get in and out, mine weren't as bad as the pictures above, but I spent an hour or so scraping and cleaning all together (with a break for lunch). 

When I closed it up for lunch, efficiency jumped to 80% before it came up to temp.



 

[DDW_OR]

since i removed all of the turbulators the burn has been at 100%

i will never put them back in!!!!!!!

[PoginyHill]

DDW, has the creosote build-up also resolved itself without the turbulators?

[DDW_OR]

DDW, has the creosote build-up also resolved itself without the turbulators?

Yep.

Greenhouse build
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=124171.msg2026577#msg2026577

now i have to re-do T1 from 2 to 8 ft deep

[DDW_OR]

Winter 2024-2025
Have not used the OWF
Been using the natural gas furnace 

Plan to use the OWF for 2025-2026 winter 

 garden and greenhouse build 

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=124171.0;all#bot