For the guys selling bundles,

[B.C.C. Lapp]

I never really thought I'd go the bundle or bag of firewood route but I walked into a store today on a whim to see if the owner would want to sell some firewood.  And what do ya know her guy just up and quit and she was kinda looking for a firewood suppler. And it turns out she has four stores all together. One store is a little out of my normal area but that's not a problem.   
But she wants it in bundles or bags. No racks. Not the big bags that hold a facecord, she means the  little mesh ones a kid or a lady can carry.  That's okay with me. But I gotta learn something new here.

So can some of  you guys selling bundles answer a few questions for me?

1) How many pieces of firewood do your bundles average?
B) How many bundles or bags per cord?
D) How much do you charge a bundle? 
4)  Should I go with the mesh bags?   They are pretty inexpensive, less that a buck a bag.  Or should I buy a bundler?

This is a new way of doing things for me.   I'll sure appreciate your input.

[GRANITEstateMP]

I'm zero help on this, but I'm pretty sure Corley5 could help you with how he does bundles

[beenthere]

Move into it slow. Adjust as you go along. 

[Mooseherder]

I think the bags are expensive at almost a dollar each.  A shrink wrap roll or brown rope twine may save you 50 cents a bundle.  That adds up quick.
I've seen it banded.  That must be reasonable cost wise.

[OH logger]

I do plastic wrapped firewood bundles.  I bought a used twister bundler I found online (been a Godsend). I like wrapped but never bagged any either. We get roughly 180 bundles per cord. Charge $3 unless we have to provide a lockable rack. Then we charge $4 to recoup the money we spent on the rack.  We try to deliver 30 or more at a time to make good use of time. Started out with a homemade block and we bought the little 5" or whatever rolls of shrink wrap wrapped both ends of the bundle and did that for years. Bundles loosened up over time and  got the twister and waaaay better.  At a new location bundles can take a long time to catch on but sounds like that won't be an issue for you.  Make sure the wood is DRY.  Uniform lengths and sizes looks pretty.  Pretty sells.  Bags seem
Cheaper to get started with cause the bagger is cheaper than a wrapper.  But the bags would sure get pricey over time.  People around my area are frugal for the most part.   Also me and my son can make about 2 bundles a minute.  By myself a bundle a minute 

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Oh logger I'm glad to see that roughly 180 bundles a cord number.  I was figuring on at least 160 per cord.  I like around 180 better.   I have a good idea what you mean when you say pretty sells.  The bundles I've looked over were all professional looking and dry as dust. 

I was watching some bundler videos, looks to us like that would be quicker and easier than stuffing bags.

[rusticretreater]

Check your local regulations.  Where I live in Virginia is near several national forest parks.  People are not allowed to bring those bundles into the parks unless they have been kiln dried to kill any pests.  Virginia is quarantined for the Lantern Fly and Gypsy(Spongy) Moth and any wood that may cross the state line also needs to be kilned.  Pennsylvania also has the same infestations.

Also check the firewood bundles that you come across.  Check out their packaging, labeling and outrageous prices.

[barbender]

 I do .75 cubic foot bundles on a Twister wrapper. I have two, got them used. Everyone's bundlers are over $2000 now, I think. 

 I figure 150 bundles per cord. I also get about 150 bundles per roll of stretch wrap. I use 90 guage, with 3 or 4 wraps. 

 Your wood had to be split smaller to bundle efficiently, imo. There should be 7-8 pieces in a .75 cubic foot bundle.

 Bags are expensive. I can't remember my stretch wrap cost per bundle, but it was in pennies. Bags are .50-.60 each. Kind of a pay the money upfront and save with stretch wrap, or bleed forever with bags. 

 Everyone sees the prices on bundled wood and thinks they're going to get rich at it. I'm here to tell ya, that's not how it is🤷 It rounds out my operation and provides cash flow, but if I could keep busy delivering dump trailer loads of cut and split wood I'd gladly send the bundling operation down the road. 

 I can do about 30 bundles an hour with my setup. Maybe 40 if I was trying to prove a point, but even that number is misleading because I have to spend a large amount of time getting wood staged, so I can bundle efficiently for an hour. Getting started, you'd be better off figuring on 20 an hour. Most of the people I pay to bundle get about that. 

 A buddy has a brother that has a large commercial bundling operation. I'm talking like 600,000 bundles a year. They have conveyors that always keep wood right in front of you, he said he can get a little over 60 an hour with that set up. 

 I'd like to set something up like that, but all of that costs $$. We work ours by loading a hay wagon, the big bulk bags, or my dump trailer. Whatever means I have to keep wood close to the bundling machine. I'm not under a roof. That would be ideal, but the roof will have to be a part of something else because I don't bring in enough with the bundles to invest solely on that. 

 You'll make the best money at it if you don't need help, IMO. It ties up a lot of time. It is a good fit if you have an indoor space where you can make bundles, on days when the weather won't let you do anything else. 

 I may sound a bit negative nancy😁 but I'm just trying to give you an honest perspective on bundles. My kids hate doing them, and if you are servicing a few gas stations or whatever, it's tough to hire someone to help if you don't have employees already. For us, it's me, my wife sometimes, my mom and my kids. My Mom enjoys doing them, the kids don't and my wife helps when she can. 

 Corley will give a more negative take on them then me, iirc "I hate bundled firewood" was a quote from him😊

 Oh BTW, the gas station won't typically need refilled when it's convenient for you😁

[Big_eddy]

I recall watching a YouTube video where they placed same size and priced bags and bundles side by side.
Can't remember where or when, but I do remember the outcome. Bundles outsold bags by a fair margin.

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Big_Eddy that dosen't surprise me.   I've been eyeballing bundles and bags and it seems to me like the bundles are more eye catching and people can see it clearly.  The bags hide quite a bit.
I ordered some bags to get started but I'm looking at bundlers now.     I'm looking at this one and an Amish made wrapper that looks pretty much the same but is much less.

https://www.hud-son.com/product/firewood-bundler-standard-manual-model/

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Barbender I want both sides of the story. I'm glad you pointed out some of the no fun facts, and I get what your saying.   I'm expecting big headaches and I'm sure I'll get them.      Hiring help is out of the question.  I wouldn't if I could. I'd expect an employee to work like I do and they most likely wouldn't agree.   And listening to some of the other guys say about about their employees, well, I'll just keep it to what I can do on my own.
Nope, I'm on my own unless Mrs Lapp is helping and she does what she can. 

Here's the thing. I can't sell enough wood here delivering  cords or face cords to homeowners and campers. There just isn't enough sales. I'm lucky if I can sell 50 cords a year that way. So I need my racks and I need more sales than even that.  I need to sell every way I can.  That means bundles, bags, boxes and any way I can sell a stick.
 I don't consider your opinion negative. Just reporting the facts as you found them.
The sad fact is I'm having real trouble making ends meet logging now.  Parts, fuel, saws, equipment, all more expensive every month while what I can make cutting and skidding stays the same.   Not to mention every year its wetter. That is no joke.  I can roll a skidder a little less days every year it seems.   This year has been awful.   
So something has to change.  If this don't work I don't know what I''ll try. But retiring ain't for me.   I like to work. I wish I could just be a cutter for somebody else like the old days but that's almost impossible now and I'm about to turn 60 and I can't cut as fast or long as I used to.     So firewood it is.   Sure do appreciate ALL  the input. Both rhe good and the not so good.
So I hope I can change some things and make this pay.   

[Old Greenhorn]

If I am not mistaken I think I saw one of those Hud-son bundlers behind @BargeMonkey 's shop a few years ago.
 I think the bags are the quickest way to get up to speed. Years back I knew a young fella who made a lot of bundles to supply a campground next door to him. He used bags and would cut the bottom out of a 5 gallon bucket, turn the bucket upside down, slide the bag over it, turn it back up, then fill the bucket with wood and slide the bucket right out. Stuffing net nags without some kind of tool can be a real pain.
 Around here, the bundles are either 1 or two cubic feet.

[Ljohnsaw]

How about this price? Walmart 

.65 cu-ft

[barbender]

B.C.C., in your situation it sounds like bundles would be a good fit. You will make out the best on them, when you can do them all yourself.

If you are looking long term, I'd get a powered bundler. I couldn't imagine cranking a handle on all the bundles we do. Maybe the Hud-son is upgradeable to power later? Worth checking.

As someone else mentioned, check local laws and requirements for parks and campgrounds. In Minnesota, it is a bit confusing but here is a summary. For non heat treated wood, for use on MN DNR administered lands the wood must be used in the county where it was harvested, and contain no ash species. They are trying (but failing) to prevent the movement of EAB. Many of our campgrounds are USFS, and Army Corp of Engineers. They may have no requirements, or follow the MN DNR guidelines.

Basically, I label mine to MN DNR's requirements and that satisfies everyone else.

As for labels- here, they have to display my name and address, volume, and county where harvested. The price is also required to be posted with the wood, but I leave that up to the seller.

I can never stay far enough ahead with dry hardwood, I end up mixing green hardwood with dead standing softwoods that are dry. With the small splits, the wood dries out quickly. The softwood makes for an easy lighting fire.

[barbender]

 Dang, LJS! Well, everything is more expensive out there🤷

[barbender]

This is my hack job set up. Bags of wood off the processor. One oak, one dead standing spruce. In between the bags, is edgings off of the mill that work great to fill in corners and gaps. On the haywagon, I set bundles of mill slabs and cut them to length with a chainsaw. 

 Another thing- get the idea you have of what quality firewood is out of your head a bit. These need to be lit for a campfire, not heat your house. Many a camper will have a hard time lighting a bundle of 7 chunks of just oak. Take a bundle of your wood and go start a campfire with it? How does it work? Remember, most people that are buying these don't have the tool operating and firestarting skills that you do.

 Make them look nice, it's a retail product.

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Guys, I been selling campfire wood to folks sense 1995.  Never had anybody mention rules and I was never quite silly enough to ask.   Once in a while I park a trailer in a pull off area across from a state campground and sell it to some camper before the day is out.  Nobody ever complains. At least not yet.

I WILL admit once I took a load over the state line into Ohio near Andover Ohio.  Only had to go about four miles over the state line.   Didn't I roll right up on a traffic check being done by some Ohio Highway Patrol.  They checked my drivers license, walked around my truck and trailer and I heard a Trooper say to the other older one "Hey is he allowed to take green wood over the state line?"   I heard the other trooper respond, "Who gives a (pile of manure)." But he didn't say pile of manure.

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Barbender I was planning to keep most of the oak and beach and slow drying stuff more for the stacked winter heating wood.   I figured I would use mostly red maple, ash and cherry for the bundles cause they dry twice as fast. That's what I've always done in my racks.  

Yeah, presentation is everything. I get that. Its even important in my racks.  The better it looks, neat, not a pile of bark laying around the rack, clean wood, not a lot of loose bark, all counts. I certainly agree it matters.   

I'll tell you this, ain't nobody here going to give me twenty bucks for a bundle of firewood.   I'm hoping I can get $4.50 a bundle for myself and they can retail those bundles for maybe $7.50 or there abouts.  But I really don't know yet.   The only MUST is it has to pay better than the racks or the loose cord deliveries because it will take so much more time.   

[Corley5]

Bundles suck. I do a few thousand annually to a couple gas stations and a campground. Dealing in  bulk firewood is preferred but there's enough $$$ in them to be worthwhile. One client also buys 30+ face cords of boiler wood. We put 5 wraps of 90 gage film on a bundle. Makes them more stable. A roll makes 150 bundles give or take and that equals about 3 face cords/1 cord. 100 bundles is a minimum for setting up the operation and delivery. The gas stations will take up to 180 at a time if they don't have many left. Depending on how much stock they have left, how summer holidays fall, and my own schedule I will stock them before they're out but they have to have room for a hundred. The campground takes 200 at a time. I'm currently buying wrap from packagingsuppliesbymail.com There's another site I use too. One has free shipping. The other doesn't. The final cost is about the same. U-line is too expensive for wrap. I've been @ $3.50 per bundle for a year. Costs aren't much different right now. Guess I'll leave it for now. I leave the loading conveyor off and use it as a hopper. The bundler is set up next to it. The bundles are made and loaded directly into the F550 for delivery. I don't inventory any. I had one guy who could make two bundles a minute. Others well over a minute per bundle. My current help does one about every 45 seconds. We did 160 last Sunday and in next few days the other gas station will take 180. The campground is on the schedule for the 1st week of May.

[Corley5]

Spend the $$$ on an electric bundler. The manual would be fine for a few here and there but if you're going to be serious it won't cut it.

[BargeMonkey]

 How are you making your firewood ? Processor or chainsaw and woodsplitter? Uniform consistent length is really important if your looking to do bags, good wood in general. I wasn't sold on bundles, guy down the road will whip them out alot cheaper, we went with the bags. Half the battle is how your set up to fill or wrap them, we will fill a couple wire baskets with cleaner nice wood, set 3 in a U shape and pile the bags behind you on a pallet. My cousin yrs ago got a lucrative deal sending wood in bundles down to the east end of Long Island, tractor trailer loads at a time. They got sloppy with the bundles, cheap help, nasty wood, bundles started coming apart, couple incidents and they pulled the plug on him. Bundles are cheaper to make. If you told me bags / bundles / ice would make money I wouldn't believe it, see people think nothing of buying 6-8 bags at a clip. We have a little sign up, I think it's .25 a bag if they return them in the same shape. 

[Corley5]

  The wood comes right off the processor into the elevator hopper and is then bundled. I process while bundles are being made. I get ahead I fill the live deck, grease machines etc. until he catches up which isn't long. Limit handling all processed firewood as much as possible.     

[Corley5]

I do bundles year round. No where near the volume as summer but there's business. I can't believe the number of people who buy them for household heat. I'm not as accommodating in the winter. If the bundles run out when we're in an arctic outbreak they don't get restocked until the temps moderate. Keep your stretch wrap where you're going to use it. Temperature differences from the ends of the roll to the middle can cause uneven tension, and issues unrolling. There's also "blown" and "cast" wrap. Blown is what we normally get and seems to make a better bundle... I really don't like bundles 

[Corley5]

The decision was made this morning to run a load of 160 gas station bundles.   

[woodrat]

here's how I do the bundles. I have a simple jig on a sawhorse and it's 12" wide and 8" tall, and depending on what size of pieces, it's about 6-10 pieces of wood to make that bundle. I use 5" shrink wrap around each end of the bundle, don't skimp on the number of wraps or the bundle falls apart and the customer complains...lol

I've been getting about 125-135 or so bundles per cord. I use the box wedge on the eastonmade to make the firewood for the bundles.

This year, my main customer hasn't even ordered any yet because they cut down some of their own trees and now want to sell all that wood before they'll buy bundles. I'm guessing I won't end up selling that many to them this year but I have about 600 bundles worth of wood already split with the box wedge.

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Corley, Barge, thanks loads for the input.   I'm taking notes here.   The bags I ordered just to get started showed up.   Well made, seem strong. We stuffed  few and its easy enough but also very clear immediately that to do say, a hundred at a crack or so would be slow and clumsy.  We will figure better ways to do it.   

[barbender]

 Using a 5 gallon bucket with the bottom cut off is a quick and cheap upgrade. I also do a few bags, with this method, to use up shorts and pieces that don't fit well in the bundler.

 I should've mentioned before, my bundler is set up for making square bundles, where Corley's is for round ones. The used bundler I bought was already configured that way and I came to appreciate how they stacked. But they also slow down the speed at which we can make them, no doubt.

[BargeMonkey]

I will get a picture of the "bagger tray" I had for filling bags, it's a metal pan open on 1 side, had a stand with a catch and spring, stack the wood in, slide the bag over and tip it down. For production bags it was slick. Pulp is 54-56 a ton right now, my area isn't really used to seeing 8' wood, alot of these small processor / firewood operations aren't going to exist another 3-5yrs here because the guys flat out won't be able to buy a stick of wood.  

[thecfarm]

I  Pulp is 54-56 a ton right now, my area isn't really used to seeing 8' wood, alot of these small processor / firewood operations aren't going to exist another 3-5yrs here because the guys flat out won't be able to buy a stick of wood. 

We use to see 8 foot wood here when the paper mill in Jay was running. Now it seems to be 20 feet? 
But I don't under why they won't be able to buy wood.

[BargeMonkey]

I  Pulp is 54-56 a ton right now, my area isn't really used to seeing 8' wood, alot of these small processor / firewood operations aren't going to exist another 3-5yrs here because the guys flat out won't be able to buy a stick of wood. 

But I don't under why they won't be able to buy wood ?

Less guys cutting wood, less people who wanna bother putting a triaxle in a bad spot, people got used to the idea of "cheap wood". 56 bucks a ton is 2k a load, no whining about crooked wood, quality / quantity. I know some people who would fill their yards for 7-800 a healthy triaxle load right now, can't even get anyone. No diff sawmills, processors, why you see alot of them out there for sale with 500-1k hrs, the source drys up and they are done. 

[thecfarm]

Gotta.
I use to sell hardwood pulp from my land. I got all the money, but trucking. 
Had a lot of people tell me I need a truck.    I was a very small time guy with a 40 hp tractor and a 3 PT logging winch. Not much of a volume logger.
But I was cutting some good size trees. Not much money in pulp, but the logs paid the bills.
Plus if I truck, who is cutting??
Then others told me to get a wood processor.
Again, why? I push it up into a pile and get about 43 dollars a cord. Again, who's cutting if I run the processor?

[OH logger]

Not to hijack the thread but we've considered switching to bags from wrapped bundles.  One reason being we could do a bunch of bags ahead when it's not fit to log.  I'm talking like months before we need them. Do any of you wrap bundles with plastic and store them inside for months before selling them?  We have plenty of room inside to store them where it's dry.  That should help the wrap not to loosen I'd say but not sure how tight they'd still be.  If we stick to plastic I'm really trying to stay away from a shrink wrapper like a wood packer oven machine.  Any thoughts on storing plastic wrapped bundles for months? And yes the wood is DRY when wrapped

[Corley5]

  I don't inventory processed firewood in any form. It goes directly on the truck for immediate delivery. I don't even like leaving wood on the truck overnight ffsmileyHandling takes time and time is $$$. I'd be concerned with the wood drying a bit more and the bundles loosening up and/or molding. Bags would breathe and wouldn't get loose.
  I souped my Twister up a bit. The gears in the gear reduction stripped a couple years after I acquired it. Dirt, moisture, and freezing appeared to be the cause from a bad o-ring on the gear case.. It was a bit slow anyway so the new one is geared a couple steps higher. Made a real difference. $60 or $65 for the machine, less than $400 for the new drive, thousands of bundles total and it owes me nothing 

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Well we stuffed some bags yesterday afternoon.   I grabbed  a face cord and we filled 48 bags with it.   I'm okay with that.   Took us almost an hour.   A little fumbley at first but we got faster toward the end.    Already can see better ways to go at it.   Pretty easy all around.  Making my first deliveries of bags today. 

[B.C.C. Lapp]

I sold those 48 bags easily enough.  Sold 12 bags each to 4 different stores.  All want resupplied as needed.
  Mrs. Lapp told me I never charge enough for anything and I got to stop thinking of prices like its 2019.   So I asked for what I thought was a HIGH price per bag considering they are retailing these bags. Not one of them hesitated or even blinked.   
So she was right. 

So I'm cutting splitting and stacking and trying to figure out when I'm going to get my fields plowed and fitted, when I'm going to get the logging job done my skidder is still at and how I'm doing to get my building up for my  sawmill and firewood equipment and a place to stack filled bags.   I need three of me. 

[doc henderson]

It is a curse to know enough to be able to do all things ourselves.  makes it hard to shell out cash to others that know less than us.  My wife wants the guy who says, "yes madam we can do whatever you want".  That scares me to death!

[Andries]

. . .  I need three of me. 

I met the guy who figured out how to do that.
Turns out that a copy of a copy isn't so sharp. 
.
Doc, I agree completely.
The curse of the "handy guy" being forced to watch a contractor in his own home. Enough to drive a guy around the bend!

[Magicman]

That scares me to death!

Just the thought of standing aside and letting someone else do my job is hard for me to chew and it would be even harder for me to digest. 

I have two Grandsons, Ben & Luke, that play me like a fiddle when something needs to be done.  They both delight in telling me to stand back when they know full well that this little old popcorn fart guy has never stood back.

Hiring something done has virtually never been in my vocabulary.  When we added this Sunroom, I hired a builder to dry it in & brick, and I took over from there.  When the Cabin Addition came along, I was 100%. 

I will soon have two trees felled in my back yard, and I will take over from there.  There will be much 2" bridge lumber plus the firewood.  

[Klunker]

Big time Firewood business.
Just for your entertainment.
I wish they would of talked about the cost/profit end of it.
But one point caught my eye, he controls all of the business from cutting to hauling.
Doesn't buy logs but does it all himself, a better business model in my mind, nobody is making a buck off him except for the guy who he is paying stumpage.

 

[barbender]

 That's a nice operation. Also illustrates the difference in knowledge between a guy running an integrated operation, and a content creator.

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Barbender i had to google "content creator".  But after I did I see what you mean. Pretty accurate.  No offense or disrespect meant to either gent but certainly working on different levels.

Get this guys, couple weeks ago I stopped off at a campground that was still closed of course but there was a car at the office in the front. So I stop to see if i can sell them some firewood this summer.   I knock on the office door, a lady comes out. She don't look happy I disturbed her.  But I'm my only sales man so I smile, stand up straight, introduce myself, produce a card and start giving her my pitch.   

She ain't having none of it. Shuts me down. We already got a wood guy she says. And a few other choice things about fast talking wood guys.  I keep the smile plastered on my face. I did after all show up cold calling and disturb her. 

As I'm being shown the door I ask her to at least please keep the card just in case something changes.  yeah yeah she says.   And down the road I go.

Got a phone call form what I believe to be her brother today.  Its a family owned campground.    They want at least one loose cord dumped every week and some bagged wood as well. Don't know how much yet.   

Karma man. You gotta love it.

 

[barbender]

 Yeah you just never know🤷 I hate trying to do the sales thing. It's just not my gift. Thankfully, I've been doing this long enough now that I get most of my business word of mouth, or people see my labels on bundles other places. 

 

[NE Woodburner]

I hate trying to do the sales thing. It's just not my gift.

This thread has been interesting to follow as I have been thinking about setting up a small wood rack at some family property and selling "campfire" wood as a side gig. I don't plan on any big volume and I may be the worlds worst salesman, so there's that.

What I do have is a lot of small hardwood and some blowdown white pines that I have been cleaning up. Not the best firewood and I really don't need any more for the house, so I thought campfire wood might be a good way to get rid of it. I would like to sell what little I create cleaning up and not looking for top dollar, but also don't want to undercut others in the business and do them any harm. Information in this thread has been very helpful.

[doc henderson]

I think good firewood is what we heat with in out stoves in the winter.  that would be a waste in a fire pit, chiminea or even a fireplace with the little glass doors.  even cottonwood is fine.  it light easy and burns bright

[mudfarmer]

I tried selling bundles direct out of the farm stand the past few years and didn't get much traction. This year it is going a lot better.

Probably contributing changes: A better sign!! And smaller bundles! I thought I was doing folks a favor with a big bundle but didn't think that not everyone wants to or can move a big bundle of hardwood. Mixing hardwood and softwood (sawmill slabs), with smaller pieces mixed in for kindling (sawmill edgings). 

It is pretty low volume but getting rid of waste products, right now I make the bundles on a bench or tailgate and am using 2x square bale ropes per bundle. This is just another way to get rid of all those hay ropes instead of the dump... I only need so many belts to hold my pants up

[barbender]

 I started doing bundles to get rid of mill waste, too. I made the best $$ on those. I made them myself out of wood that was already paid for, for something else. The only problem is you are somewhat limited on scale. Pretty soon you are buying truckloads of wood to pay other people to make into bundles😊

 Like you Mud, I found that bigger doesn't equal better. A lot of the people that are buying bundles can't lift a heavy bundle.

[B.C.C. Lapp]

I made four of these boxes for four convenience stores all owned and run by the same very nice lady.  I showed up asking to put some racks there at one of her stores and she said no but she would sell bagged firewood if I supplied boxes that could be locked at night.  So I made em, had a local sign guy make  some professional looking signage and here's we came up with.    She steered me toward this end and I sure am glad I met her.  I now have eight  locations selling bagged wood and two with racks. 

Its a big deal for me.  Game changer.

[Magicman]

That is very professional. 

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Thanks Lynn.

[Mooseherder]

Good job getting it done. 

[woodroe]

That looks great. The business is expanding !

[cutterboy]

BCC, I've been away for three weeks and am now trying to catch up. I am really pleased to see what you are doing with your firewood business and how it is expanding. I love the firewood box at the store.
Keep it up! You'll be the Firewood King of Penn.

[Magicman]

I took this picture of a store's firewood rack this week.  The bundles contained 4-5 sticks of wood and were priced @ $5.99 each or two for $10.  All was about 18" and Red Oak.

[Greenie]

I'm late responding to this discussion.... From 2004 - 2019 (when I retired) we sold about 50 cords of hardwood per year in a campground bundled in 16" long finely split packages. The bundles weighed about 30 pounds and were formed in short plastic culverts (14" diameter) and then tied with poly baling twine. The bundles shrank while stored so we had to tap in a few small pieces of firewood to tighten up the bundles before they went up for sale. Mice and vermin chewed fiber twine.
Each bundle sold for $7, we kept about $5 after taxes and various fees.
We used a Super Split wood splitter - a fast way of dicing up firewood meant for campfires. Trees were mostly dying or soon to be dying white birch being climaxed out of the oak forest; the trees were best removed before they fell on campsites, roads, or improvements.
We had prison inmate labor; they liked dropping the trees more than splitting the firewood so we always had to push them to do the splitting and bundling - which they saw as not enjoyable/glamorous enough. More drug convictions changed the work ethics of our inmate work crew (the best workers were habitual offenders & vehicular manslaughter convictions) ... Drug convicted inmates were less desirable. Being a campground inmates convicted of sex crimes were naturally never on outside crews. 
After taxes and fees for handling the accounts (bureaucracy) we generated about $15,000 USD a year which we then purchased capitol equipment with (compact tractors, disc mower, golf carts, diesel zero turns, woodworking equipment and wifi repeaters ) Most of the capitol equipment could not have been purchased with the existing budgets we had to live with.
WAG (wild guess) is that the labor involved in harvesting, hauling, cutting, splitting, and handling would be equivalent to one person working 40 hours a week 52 weeks per year and not viable for a stand alone business venture with a $15,000 per year bottom line.
We could have wrapped the bundles in shrink wrap but then most campers would have burned the shrink wrap in the fire making an unpleasant stink and mess. The shrink wrap would have eliminated tightening bundles after they shrank.
I retired, the prison inmate program ended and the enterprise account was rejiggered with greatly less motivation for doing the extra work. We also produced dimensional lumber - that too ceased when I retired. Self-sufficiency in a park (creating materials and operating money) is a tough sell now and won't find much support in governmental agencies. We did it successfully for 16 years and never had any serious injuries or incidents.   

[barbender]

 Sounds like an interesting operation, Greenie👍

 I'd venture a guess that a good portion of the poly baling twine from the bundles went into the fire, too.

[Greenie]

It probably did go into the fire too - natural baling twine would have been better if not for the vermin.

[OH logger]

Is anyone else noticing there bundle sales being down this year? I only keep records on how much I sell a year and it seems I'm behind in sales at year to date but not sure. Any of you guys having the same experience? 

[mudfarmer]

Made a bad mistake and worked too much overtime this week to pay attention! My bundles are all gone!

Well, because the roads are flooded with campers and boats and out of state plates gearing up for July 4th and they bought them all. I did not have any prepared and am having a few cold ones, making bundles. Happy bundling to you all 

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Well, I was doing pretty good for a short time there. Then it just kinda fell off a little.    Certainly slow now.  I didn't sell a single rack yesterday.  For a Friday that's not normal.  Cant really say why.  The wood looks great. Its all testing fine, dry as a bone.  Kind of discouraging but still working at it.

[barbender]

 It's all market dependent🤷 We've delivered 350 in the last week. I'll probably have to do another 300 before the 4th.

 For my area, and maybe others, I think one thing you have to get out of your head is what you think "good" firewood is. What bundled customers want isn't the same as what I would deliver to someone for their indoor fireplace, at all. Many of the people that are buying bundles probably aren't very skilled at starting a fire.

 Here's a good experiment- take one of your bundles, and use what is in it to light it. No kindling out of your woodshed, no using your hatchet. Maybe some newspaper and charcoal lighter fluid like the weekend camper will have. Can you get it lit? If you can't, or it's a challenge, then 99% of the campers won't be able to either.
 
 This is why I mix softwood, or light hardwoods like aspen or basswood in my bundles. While a regular firewood customer would be insulted by their inclusion in a load of hardwood firewood, a camper just wants to get a fire going while the children look on with hotdogs and smores ready to go😊

 I shoot for a 50/50 mix of hardwood/softwood, the hardwood isn't even dry. But I know it will all burn well, and light easily. We put some of the slivers and splinters in the bundles fir kindling as well.

 As of late, I've been using firewood bags that I put short off cuts, ugly pieces and lots of slivers and other small pieces for kindling in. I stuff the bags as full as I can get them. I sell them at a location alongside bundles, and the bags disappear quickly. It's ugly wood/junk! But campers like it for some reason🤷

 I'm not suggesting that you should sell your customers a poor quality product. What I am saying, is reconsider what your customer may be looking for. Your areas are different than mine, and what works for me may not work for you. But you can always put a few bundles out with more slivers and kindling in them alongside your other wood, and see how they move.

 There's plenty of places up here that bundle straight up sawmill slabs. Campers love them, and I have no qualms using them myself. My only issue with slabs right now is processing them in a timely fashion, compared to just running roundwood through the processor. I tried running slabs through the processor- that didn't work too well🤷

[B.C.C. Lapp]

BB when I make up my bags each one is as close to a ahh, well,  let me call it a "campfire kit" as I can get it.   Two larger pieces and the rest wrist thick and smaller.   If the weather is dry and humidity low I think you could put a match to the bag itself and get the whole dang thing lit. 
We have evening campfires here frequently, having one tonight in fact.  Mrs. Lapp and I enjoy cooking over an open wood fire.  I'm burning the stuff I'm selling and it really is campfire ready bags.

[barbender]

I was just using some of the firewood bags we made while out camping this weekend. Each had a few pieces of white birch bark, and lots of slivers and debris from the firewood processor. Then some larger short chunks of hardwood. They worked really well...it's good to do product testing once in a while😊

[GAB]

I was just using some of the firewood bags we made while out camping this weekend. Each had a few pieces of white birch bark, and lots of slivers and debris from the firewood processor. Then some larger short chunks of hardwood. They worked really well...it's good to do product testing once in a while😊

I do a lot of product testing when picking strawberries, raspberries, blackberries, blueberries and other things like apples, plums, etc.
When they start weighing people in I'm going in with rocks in my pockets.
GAB

[mudfarmer]

Well said, guys! Can you start a fire with basically just your bundle? It is good to try I take wood out of my regular dry stacks and resplit to make bundles The slivers etc are a bonus. Folks like @cutterboy here sell separate bags of kindling, we have not tried that. My bundles make fires (easily) that you can cook your dinner on, we do it a lot. But this is so much smaller volume than you are talking... 300... MAYBE hit that this year, not this week but also just direct sales, no wholesaling.

Saw a guy at the gas station loading 5x bundles @ $8 each into his truck the other day, really makes you think while running the splitter for hours.

[Pclem]

Well, I'm pretty late for this post... Honestly, I've not been on the forum for a few years now, but this post got me interested to read and reply. I've not sold a stick of firewood for close to 4-5 years now I'd guess. But we had a pretty substantial bundle business here for 7-10 years. Built one kiln, then had to keep up and build another, then finally buying one from kiln direct. The last 5-6 years of the business, my wife, I and two kids stayed plenty busy spring through early fall splitting, drying, packaging and delivering 700-900 bundles a week. I tried everything from mesh bags to plastic mesh tubes with hog rings, and stretch wrap. We found the best, cheapest, most efficient method was stretch wrap. It's been a while, but I think we had about 30-35 cents in each .75 cu ft bundle for cost. We used blown stretch wrap... Not sure if it was 80 or 90 gauge. Blown wrap is much stronger and resists tearing. I had an electric wrapper from wood beaver. We had firewood baskets for the kilns with drop down sides, and would set two of them on either side of the wrapper. 1 person could wrap 30 bundles/hour. With 4 of us... My wife and daughter filling trays, me wrapping, and my boy stacking the pallet, we could do about 75/ hr. Honestly, for selling premium wood to homeowners and restaurants, we profited more. So much time and overhead with splitting small pieces, wrapping, and making sure everyone was stocked up. In the end, a broken foot in the woods for me, and my wife cutting her thumb off on the splitter was the straw that broke the camels back. I'm not sure this helps or puts anything in perspective for the op or anyone else... Lord knows I made plenty of mistakes and could have done things better. But.... If I was to sell firewood again, and I just might, It would only be premium smaller split/dry for homeowners. That's where we did the best.

[Pclem]

Oh and btw, all equipment at the bottom of this post is sold and long gone... Except for a few jonsereds and some old vintage axes

[barbender]

 Good to see you back, Pclem- and sorry to hear about the misfortunes!

I think that is a good cautionary tale for all of us to be careful out there though. All it takes is one mistake and you can have an injury that costs more than you'll make in 10 years with firewood!

 A local friend of mine got his hand in a splitter bad enough a few years ago that the Drs were close to just amputating it. He and his teenage son were working together on the splitter- something I don't like doing. I think there should only be one person with their hand at the controls and handling the wood on that side, or it's just a matter of time before someone sticks their hand in there while the other person hits the control. I know I've pinched my hand a couple of times when resplitting wood on the processor. 

 I worry about that kind of stuff a fair bit, it's dangerous work that we do.

[Magicman]

Oh and btw, all equipment at the bottom of this post is sold and long gone...

You can go to your profile and edit it all out. 

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Sales been slow as of late.     I know my biggest problem is that there is to many guys selling wood because logging is about non existent around here now. And so many of these fellas undercut  every bodies prices trying to get the business their way.     Nothing I can do about that. I've made a promise to myself I'll not waist time or energy worrying about what the other guys are doing.  Just make sure the wood is dry and there is plenty of it and the world should turn.  I hope. 

This here is exactly what I'm talking about.   One of the camp grounds I sell to had not called for any wood for quite a few weeks.  I didn't know why and it was on my mind.  Did I muck it up somehow?   Just didn't have a clue.  Worried, you know? I KNEW the owner should have been calling weeks ago.   He's a good customer and I hated to lose him.   I was on the edge of calling him when he called on Thursday.   He said hey I need some wood for this weekend.  I told him I'd load up and be over there before supper time.   And I did and was.
    And I found out what was up.  Here he had been buying slabs from a small Amish mill for half what I charge.   Trouble was his campers couldn't light it nor keep it lit. So he bought a cheap load of mixed hardwood and pine form some fella, no idea who.   That turned out to be mostly bark and chunks.  And once again his campers were not happy campers.  And so he came back to me.   My price is set right where the other serious sellers are in my area are.   No higher but no lower.  I let the bigger outfits set the price and follow them along. Any way he's back where he should be. But the whole thing worries me.  And I don't believe in that. Worrying never helped me or changed the outcome much.   But things are tight. 

[Magicman]

You are very wise to not get into a throat cutting race to the bottom. 

[cutterboy]

BCC, I think you played it smart. You were always there with the good and dry wood and he came back to you. I think most who stray will come back. Everyone wants to buy at a lower price but if they need good wood they will be willing to pay a reasonable price.

STOP WORRYING! You seem to have your head on straight.

[GRANITEstateMP]

Magicman and cutterboy,

Both of your statements had me shaking my head up and down!  Cutter, I could use an inspirational pep talk like that about every 6-8months.  Can I schedule you for mid March?

[cutterboy]

Can I schedule you for mid March?

Sure. $200 a half hour session.  Cash!   

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Geeze Louise Cutter, $200 hundred for a half hour? I'm in the wrong end of this business. 

[Bostonstrong]

Sorry to be jumping on this thread late in the game.
I just sold my 1000th bundle in a self serve stand at the end of my driveway since I started bundles just 18 months ago, so thought I would put my 1.5 cents in....
I have an endless supply of free wood right on my property (thank you emerald ash borer) along with as much wood as I want from several tree services.  I am a one man operation with a souped up box store splitter and farm tractor.  I have a full time + job and am at that point in life where elder care is taking up hours each week as well. 
Firewood is plentiful in my area (southeastern PA), and the current rate for a cord of seasoned hardwood delivered is in the $250-300 range. I tried the delivery gig for a while, but my time to load, drive and unload was sapping my profit.  I can make a nice penny in my day job, so I had to consider time committment as a cost of doing the firewood thing.
I can easily make 50 bundles in an hour myself without leaving the house.
Assuming, I can get 135 bundles per cord (conservatively ...I use 1.O cu ft bags), at $5/bundle, I get $675 per cord/bundled.  And, I never have to leave my property.  I can't retire on that, but it is pin money for tools and such.
I have been approached by a local campground to provide them bundles, but I don't have the time right now....maybe when I retire.
I do include kindling in the bag which, when I started doing that, increased my sales by about 40%.  The bags are the way to go for me, as I tried the plastic wrap method and got frustrated trying to keep the kindling from falling out (customers complained as well).
I get the bags for .52 a piece from Northern Woodsmen.
Anyhow, at the end of the day, I think what works for you in your unique situation works for you. 
I can see how plastic wrapped bundles are fast and would certainly be the way to go if you weren't doing kindling and had more of a commercial type business.
I am just a hobby firewood hack.