And another sawmill build thread...

Ljohnsaw · August 28, 2015, 02:02:44 AM

OK, I got the old 7hp off yesterday:

and mounted up the new 18hp twin with an electric clutch 8):

The exhaust had to be re-routed a little bit. I cut it at a slight angle, rotated it 180° (rolled) and brazed it back on. Not the best angle to see it:

On the other side, is a fixed pulley:

Today, I extended the wiring harness, mounted the key start, clutch switch, starter solenoid and battery. Fired it up and it runs pretty well and reasonably quiet! Engaging the clutch while idling, it barely flinched. Runs nice and smooth. When I flip off the clutch, the blade stops in a reasonable time, not like before when the loose v-belt continued to get pulled along with the engine.

Just for fun, I killed the engine with the clutch engaged. The blade kept the engine turning over a little bit and I think it took longer to stop. Not thinking much about it, I started it up and got a REALLY loud backfire

presumably from the fuel that was pumped through the "stopped" engine. Made my ears ring, won't be doing that again! :D

Up the hill tomorrow to work on the cabin and cut a few more logs for form boards. Can't wait to see how more power works out for me.

Ox · August 28, 2015, 10:09:16 AM

I'll bet a dollar you're going to like that upgrade!

gww · August 28, 2015, 11:17:12 AM

I am jealous. I doubt 18 horse would help me much over my nine horse unless I could find a way to stop belt slippage. I can't really bog my nine down as I am set up now. I could use an electric start though. Bet that is better then pulling the 7 horse starter rope. I don't know but would think the extra weight of the 18 horse will help stablize everything also. Love your pictures and can't wait for your next update with your thoughts of the upgrade in action. When my motor blows I may want to emulate you. Hi ox
Cheers
gww

deadfall · August 28, 2015, 12:10:18 PM

I have a B&S vertical shaft rider mower with that identical sheet metal cover. It is in a totally worn out used mower, but I really love that quiet smooth running engine. I'm getting ready to swap it into another one with a smoking one-lunger. I don't think there is any easy way to make a vertical shaft into a horizontal shaft, or I would. The oiling scheme would probably prevent it.

I hope this works out well for you and runs forever (including that clutch).

Kbeitz · August 28, 2015, 07:19:28 PM

I collect old gas engines. Back in the 50-60s almost every company that made engines had conversions to tur a vert into a hoz engine. Here is to of my collection of hundreds. Both was a Hoz engine turned into a vert engine.

deadfall · August 28, 2015, 11:18:39 PM

I would love to see your shops and all your stuff in general, Kbeitz. So much cool stuff. And you seem to have a pretty good handle on most of it too.

Kbeitz · August 29, 2015, 04:43:52 AM

Quote from: deadfall on August 28, 2015, 11:18:39 PM
I would love to see your shops and all your stuff in general, Kbeitz. So much cool stuff. And you seem to have a pretty good handle on most of it too.

Here is a storage spot that I dump some pictures.
I dont want to hog up space here with to many pictures.

http://user.pa.net/~kbeitz/

Ljohnsaw · August 29, 2015, 12:27:57 PM

Quote from: gww on August 28, 2015, 11:17:12 AM
I am jealous. I doubt 18 horse would help me much over my nine horse unless I could find a way to stop belt slippage. I can't really bog my nine down as I am set up now. I could use an electric start though. Bet that is better then pulling the 7 horse starter rope. I don't know but would think the extra weight of the 18 horse will help stablize everything also. Love your pictures and can't wait for your next update with your thoughts of the upgrade in action. When my motor blows I may want to emulate you. Hi ox
Cheers
gww

The 7hp (must be a Honda with a Subaru badge) starts with one easy pull. Really nice engine. Maybe I'll make a mini-bike with it...

The 18hp will be needing a carb rebuild. Runs good with a little hunting at the top end. I need to tighten my drive belt - a little slippage - but cuts a whole lot better 8) It wouldn't turn over after cutting for a bit and letting it sit. I think some fuel was draining through the carb and there was way too much in a cylinder - hard to turn from too much compression. Then I had to air it out so it would start again. I do have a fuel cutoff valve I installed and run the carb out of fuel when done for the day. Clutch works great, engine is reasonably quiet - electric start is soooo nice!

I drug a 16-½ foot log up on to the mill (~11" small end).

Been down 2 years and still very wet inside. Nice lumber (for form boards) with a little dry rot on one side. Got three 2x8 full length and one 10'. A little sweep at the butt and very hard there. Made a wheelbarrow load of foundation stakes from the side wood. Not sure what happened to the lumber pics...

Keibtz,
Are all those pictures of stuff you have?

Nice collection. Do you buy to refurbish and sell to support your habit or are you building a museum? :D

gww · August 29, 2015, 03:22:44 PM

L
Anytime I see a dancing smily, I figure things went well. Thanks for the indepth update and also the pictures. My nine very seldom starts on the first pull and always starts by the third pull. Not really hard but. Electric start agrrrrrr! Dad has a log splitter that you can pull and pull and pull on and it won't start if you leave the gas on. Shut the petcock when you kill the engine and it will start first time. Been that way since brand new.

Sounds great.
gww

deadfall · August 29, 2015, 03:46:55 PM

Can't trust float valves on gravity feeds.

Worse than compression lock is fuel getting past the rings and thinning the oil.

Ljohnsaw · August 29, 2015, 03:51:27 PM

Quote from: deadfall on August 29, 2015, 03:46:55 PM
Can't trust float valves on gravity feeds.

Worse than compression lock is fuel getting past the rings and thinning the oil.

Yep, don't want it thinning the oil. Never had problems before with float valves. Either there is a speck of dirt or the seat is hard/worn. I expect the latter - this engine has seen a bit of use and probably never any work done on the carb. Forgot to write down the engine numbers. Will do that next time I'm up the hill and will likely pull the carb to bring it home to redo.

deadfall · August 29, 2015, 03:54:58 PM

I find I need two things when dealing with this issue: a manual shutoff valve, and the memory to use it.

deadfall · August 29, 2015, 04:06:30 PM

BTW, ljohn, I can't tell you how much I love your part of the world, ever since I fished in Folsom Res. or swam in the Yuba River when I was ten years old. I do hope you get sufficient precip going there soon. I love every inch of the High Sierra. It is one of the places in this world I think of as my church.

Ljohnsaw · October 01, 2015, 10:53:20 AM

Update:

Yesterday (Wednesday), I needed 10 feet of 2x8 to finish my form boards. I cut this tree down a week or two ago and never sawed the butt log until today. Note how high I left the stump. Bad angle on the picture but there was a bit of sweep:

So I cut from the small end and about 3 inches from the end of the cut I stall out the blade. I lifted the slab off and found this: :(

Looks like either two nails (at angles) or a fence stable, but it is pretty thick diameter.

If you go back to the first pic, you can see a little stain that I missed. Here is the end I then trimmed off looking at both sides you can see stain:

Swapped blades and cut out some really nice 2x8s.

To finish off the day, I loaded up this big cedar butt log, about 24":

I started slicing off some 1x for my brother's sauna until I got to some good width and cut a 3" slab for my niece. Only problem was I got about 3/4 of the way through and the nasty screech of metal on metal - DanG - and the blade dove. I didn't want to waste the slab so I cut back from the other end with my chainsaw and wedge-split it off.

I will need to cut one more slab, finish one edge on each and butt them up so they will have enough width for a dining table.

The sliver you see is about the size of a toothpick - very thin - I managed to slice the nail right though its pith! >:( On the back side of the slab:

Where the diagonal water line meets the metal is the head of a second nail that I just grazed. Can't quite count the rings but looks like about 30-40 years ago these two nails were stuck in here :( My metal detector (not the saw blade) could just barely pick up these thin nails down 3" into the slab.

Two wasted blades... At least I had a LOT of hours on the first one. I was contemplating putting a new blade on, too!

Now I just need to cut a backstop and my apprenticeship will be complete ;)

Deadfall:

BTW, it started raining on me yesterday while I was working in the afternoon. I just kept on working in the rain - felt good. Today is thunderstorms both on the hill and down here by Folsom Lake. Nice to finally hear some rain!

Ox · October 01, 2015, 11:04:05 AM

Darn the bad luck! But you kept the creed of never give up. Well done!

Ljohnsaw · March 13, 2016, 01:13:38 PM

Just a fun picture to compare with the "dry" picture in replies #82 and #88:

This was taken on February 9, 2016

brewdog · April 11, 2016, 07:44:49 PM

New to this site hope im not doing something wrong,Would like impho on guides.Have seen Leggmans and cooks ,would like size and what bearing is used /see some must be sealed some grease fitting.will they last made from mild steal.Thanks.

Kbeitz · April 11, 2016, 08:29:17 PM

I built my mill... I did not make my guides. It's just not worth the time it would take to make good guides.
This is what i went with.

gww · April 11, 2016, 08:29:50 PM

brewdog
You might go to leggmans profile and click on his post and it might take you to his build thread. I believe I ask and he answered my question which is the same as yours somewhere in the middle of his build thread. It is there somewhere after the picture of his millshowing his guides. I don't remember off hand what the bearing size is but believe the roller was made from 1 and 1/2 inch round stock. I don't know what lasting a long time is with soft steel. Magic man on this site probly cuts as many boards as I have in two days. I can only say they are still working really well for me. I believe the best answer is in replie #8 of this thread.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,83025.0.html
Good luck
gww

brewdog · April 13, 2016, 09:12:35 PM

Thanks for the impho..

Jay Sybrandy · December 29, 2016, 02:59:17 PM

Hi could you show your jacks in a bit more detail did you buy them or make them because I'm in the middle of making mine now and yours looks simple

Thanks

Ljohnsaw · December 29, 2016, 10:35:10 PM

Quote from: Jay Sybrandy on December 29, 2016, 02:59:17 PM
Hi could you show your jacks in a bit more detail did you buy them or make them because I'm in the middle of making mine now and yours looks simple

Thanks

I got 12 of these for free from a friend - I just had to remove them. They were on some weird scrap Army scaffolding. The mount plates are welded on mid-body - would have rather had them at the top. They are 2,000lb rating (very low gearing). They are basically trailer jacks with a pad foot instead of a wheel. I had to mount them inboard so they wouldn't interfere with my head.

If you look on the right side of the cross member, you can see my futile attempt to make a jack with some all-thread and square tube.

Ljohnsaw · July 18, 2017, 01:21:42 AM

Time for some updates. I started this tread a little over 2 years ago but the actual build is closer to 3 years now. The 18hp B&S engine is running good (now that I did a carb rebuild/clean out last week).

The single 5L720 belt was working pretty good with the funky shim belt tightening setup but that was not easily adjustable. I took an idler pulley from a timing belt and made a lever arm with a spring from a trampoline and a turnbuckle. That is working pretty good now. I'd like a 6L belt but not sure if such a thing exists - don't see them on Amazon or eBay.

I did have a few mishaps both over the winter and when hauling. The winter caused all 4 chains to break (the master links' pins broke). When I took it home to rebuild the carb, I hit a pothole and that broke the final chain on the lift mechinisam allowing the head to free-fall to the trailer deck. That messed up the guide wheel bracket (and alignment) which cause cutting issues until I identified it.

Twice I backed up in a cut and popped a blade off at full speed and crimped it :( Hoping not to do that again. I cut around 700 bd-ft of form boards with the old setup (7hp) and about 3,000 bd-ft on the new setup. I only have another 30,000 bd-ft to go :-\

Pictures of some of the improvements to follow if I make it up the hill tomorrow or later this week.

Ljohnsaw · December 13, 2017, 05:00:58 PM

Oh well, forgot about getting some pictures but did make some improvements:

I added a log scale.

I used super magnets to hold it and allow adjustments. I push the head on this bar so it was sometimes moving. So I added a cam clamp.

When I made my mill, I made these (though both had a longer section of 2" x ¼" tube).

But they are a bit difficult to use. So when I found this thread, https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,41852.msg605141.html#msg605141, I knew what I wanted to do! So here is the replacement:

There is about 1" of throw. If I decide I need more, I can lower the cam closer to the spike pivot. The bolt are 5/16" Grade 8. Note the bright orange so it is easier to aim the blade... ;)

gww · December 13, 2017, 05:56:41 PM

As of yet, I have never popped a blade off when backing up in a cut. I have backed up a few times.

I can't believe that all the chain broke. I was very surprized by this report.

30,000 board foot to go. You should be in good shape to build when you get that done.
Thanks for the update.
gww