seeking advice on an ethical delimma

[Robert R]

Some of you know but must don't that my lovely wife is blind.  This past summer while I was away, she prepared and ate some food that should have been discarded.  She wound up in the hospital with bad food poisoning and an intestinal blockage.  Later we learned that our insurance is basically not very insuring and our portion of the bill is way above our capacity to pay at our current, existing debt level.  (Keep reading, I'm not seeking pity or for anyone from here to send me checks).

My plan for fixing this is to dump our truck.  Right now, we can get just what we owe on it and at least free up $520 a month to go for medical bills.  We could also dump the horse trailer but it is only a couple months from being free and clear so we will probably opt to keep it.  That would allow us to pay off our bills in 2.5 years.  I'm fine with that.

But here is the kicker.  As a blind person, she is "entitled" to receive blind pension from the state we live in in the amount of about $450 a month.  Every year, they try to get us to sign up and every year, we decline because we don't need the governments money to get by.  Up to now, we have always been more than comfortable.  They tell us we might as well take it as it will just get shifted to general budget if it isn't used and be wasted by the government but we have always felt that without a good need, we can't morally justify accepting it. 

At this intersection in our lives, I am being tempted to accept it for two reasons.  It will cut our truckless time in half (which contributes greatly to both of our enjoyment in life and the reason for the short fall is a direct result of her disability.  But I am not sure if this temptation is more the result of my selfishly wanting a truck back sooner because the truth is, we can pay those bills in monthly installments and be free and clear in 2.5 years getting by with no truck.  But that means no horse shows for her and no firewood or log sales for me farther than Molly and Ginger can get them delivered. 

I'm not sure what to do and I am also questioning the level of my interest in seeking this money as a legitimate need versus a motive to feed selfish self-centeredness and get a truck back sooner.  So I am looking for input.

As background, I know of no other blind person in my state (I am sure there are but I don't know them) who refuse to except this money as it is presented as an entitlement to elligible recipients.  If we chose to accept it, we would only do so as long as it took to pay off these medical bills and we wouldn't be considering it if it weren't fact that the bill situation we are in resulted from her blindness and not seeing the molded, discolored food.  Apparently with the high level of spicyness we like, it tasted fine.  I just don't know what to do.

Our church (I am a volunteer minister there) has offered to just make the bill go away but I cannot fathom allowing funds given through the church to be used for our personal expenses so I can maintain a truck that exceeds the value of that which I truly need.  I would feel very uncomfortable accepting that help in those circumstances.  I hope I am making since as I feeling rather adrift at sea here in a quagmire of different levels of gray as it pertains to right and wrong and the moral basis for the temptation to accept this government money.  Any input, either insiteful ideas or possibilities we haven't considered would be apprecieated and any due landblasting for willingness to be even temporarly suckle at the government sow will be humbly accepted.  I just don't know what to do but I know I am about 8 weeks away from possibly getting my truck repo'd because of chronic late payments over the last few months.  I'd rather dump it and take a loss if I had to than have a repo on my credit report.  Two years ago when we refinanced our farm, the bank was flabbergasted that folks as young as us had a credit rating over 800.  I don't want that screwed up but where should the line be drawn at struggling on our own to fix this mess versus being willing to accept some help for a program designed just for this.  I just don't know.

Sorry to unload my personal problems but I am at a loss, willing to entertain any ideas from any direction.

And if you are of the sort, I serious covet your prayers for my wife and I as we wreste with what God would have us do to resolve this mess.

[Tom]

Take the money and don't worry about the guilt.  There should be none.   Don't worry about stopping it because the debt is paid either.  Your State is offering it as an "even up", not a welfare.  The citizens want you to have it. 

Don't let pride get in the way.  It may not just be for trucks.  Children or family will benefit down the road.  You dont even have to tell anybody that you are accepting the money.  It's none o their business anyway.  When you get over the hump, bank it for another bad day.

I have the most respect for the blind and their willingness to take on the world.  Your State, making it a little easier, is admirable.  Give them the chance to be nice folks.

Bless you and keep on kickin'.  :D

[Furby]

Take the cash.
It's not a case where you are sitting on your butt counting the $ when you could actually be working.
The "even up" as Tom called it, is as I see it as well.

[Tom_Averwater]

The "government" is you and everyone else in the United States.  We offer programs to assist those in need because we are a nation comprised of individuals from various backgrounds and origins who have worked to create the great country that we enjoy today.  This "government program" is not a handout, but rather a helping hand for those who need it.  It allows all of us to indirectly help those in need.  The fact that your church is so willing to help you demonstrates their loving caring personalities.  Giving is one of life's greatest pleasures.  When you refuse the help of those who are able, you take away the heartwarming abilities of those who care and love you.  Allowing others to assist us in a time of need can be very difficult and often hurts our pride.  I do not believe that God sees this as a handout, rather a way that he can help you (as well as others).  

[Mooseherder]

Take the money.
Everyone goes thru rough patches every now and then and can use some help.
Nothing wrong with that my friend.  If we can't help each other out when someone
gets ill, then we aren't worthy of considerations from up above. Besides,
you need the truck to haul your logs and bring your lovely bride to the horse shows. ;)

[TArmstrong]

Take the "assistance" without a second thought. That's exactly what it's there for, and that will be my prayer tonight.

[brdmkr]

Robert,

Robert I think you have 2 viable options.  I for one, think you should consider the assistance from the state and from your church.  The church is to be known for their love toward one another.  From your post, it sounds that you are a hard worker, are active and supportive of your church, you likely take tithing seriously, and you likely have given to help others.  Consider that you may be taking an opportunity from someone by not allowing them to bless you.  If your church is willing to help, they obviously recognize that the events that have taken place are an opportunity for them to serve.  I have not been in your position and I can't say that I would feel any different than you, but if I were in your shoes what would you tell me?

Regarding accepting the money from the state... I agree with the prior posts.  There is nothing wrong with doing this.  I doubt that anyone who pays taxes would have a problem with a portion of their money going to meet a real need.

Finally, I don't think I would sell anything that I had a use for, just because something less would do.  If you had no other options, then I would say that this may be the only route, but you should  not feel bad about keeping your truck and trailer.  I might think otherwise if your purchase of this truck went beyond your means to make ends meet.  Obviously, this is not the case as you seem to have been making it just fine until the illness. 

Perhaps you could discuss these options with your church leadership and allow everyone to prayerfully consider the best solution for your situation.  Seek godly counsel and take the path that you are led to follow.

One other thing, it sounds like you have a great church family.  I'm sure you already know that.

I will pray that God will lead in your decision.

[pigman]

Take the state money, that is what it is for. As for the church money, that is for you and the church to decide.
Our state has an assistance program for the blind. Some do abuse it, but that should not stop the legitimate persons from receiving it. A while back I knew of a young able bodied "blind" man that would drive his sister to the government office and let her lead him into the office after they got there.  Some of us doubted his blindness. :
Bob

[Jeff]

I agree Robert. I can't add anything to other then what has been said. Its not a handout Its a hand reaching out. Grasp it.

[WH_Conley]

As a taxpayer (different state) I see enough money handed out to people that don't need it that it would make me feel better to know someone in your situation, a legitimate need, was receiving something. TAKE THE MONEY. As far as the truck, if you are using it to make money to support your family, firewood and log sales, I don't really see how to justify getting rid of it, probably take even longer to get back on your feet. Ifyour church wants to help, they must see a legitimate need. These people must feel that you have earned some help. If you feel you must, have a discussion with them and tell your feelings and listen to theirs.

[Fla._Deadheader]

By all means, take the assistance. Everyone gets down, some worse than others. It's a program to assist, not to be abused by others. Your situation meets that assistance requirement.   Good luck in whatever you decide.

[beenthere]

Thanks for letting us know, and share in your dilemma. I agree with the others, that the money is there to help people like your wife, you, and the family. You have the need and I think the responsibility to do the best for her with what is available, and that assistance is available. Please use it. There are abuses to any program, as we probably all know about, but IMO your need is not abuse of the system.
We keep you in our prayers and wish you the best getting over this bump as best you can. Keep in touch.

[isawlogs]

  I will spare you with my typing ... take the assistance . Your claim is more then justified . Use it and keep the truck to help keep you going .

[red]

Hi Robert

There must be many more things you can use the money for besides paying for medical bills

and you should definitely keep your truck !

You and your family will be in our prayers

Red

[jack]

Robert,
Its a tough delima, but in the bible it says that the ox must not be muzzled, adn the pastor his fairshare.   Remember,  if your congregation supplies you richly about and beyond your wildest expectations, then THANK THEM.  They are doing what God has put on their hearts.....What man is to be thankless to the God that is supplying there needs.?   OUr pastor has a daughter with a terminal illness,  he has never asked for a thing,  but he has never needed to buy a car.  one is Given to him for his use.  no one but the giver and he knows who it is.
It should remain that way....left hand not knowiing what the right hand is doing.  NO strings attached.  

As for the State money,  Someone made a Entitlement to support the BLIND.....it isnt a sympathy chest for the un able.  It was designed to help support the blind when in cases their city might not have the resources available for her extra support.  SO the Entitlement was established.  TAKE IT...and in when the time comes and you dont need it then release yourself from it.
As for the truck.  you use it for your work,  and recreation.  I bet you have even used it to help move ppl too?  If you feel that your to give up the truck.....pray about it....if you have peace about giving it up....then do so......if not...then dont.
but dont strain and worry about it...Phil 4:6-8   It really doesnt make a bit of difference if you drive a new or old truck....be at peace with your decision.
how will you pull that trailer without your truck?  
i would get a new insurance guy too.
Take care,
Jack

[treecyclers]

As a blind person, she is "entitled" to receive blind pension from the state we live in in the amount of about $450 a month. ...we have always felt that without a good need, we can't morally justify accepting it. 

And if you are of the sort, I serious covet your prayers for my wife and I as we wreste with what God would have us do to resolve this mess.

Robert, you have my prayers with you in your journey, and those of my girlfriend.
In my own humble opinion, the state offering you the "disability" stipend is the Lord's way of helping you and your lovely wife, and it's come around many times for you.
The funding will help you continue to do the good things you do in the community, help you keep your truck and operations moving forward, which I suspect is what you're here to do in the first place.
The ethics aspect is pretty moot from where I sit. It isn't a handout, at least not from my perspective, it's a helping hand.
You work very hard every day, going above and beyond for everyone whose lives you touch, and ask for so very little in return.
May I assume that your wife doesn't work?
Then think of the state stipend as her "paycheck" for making her own contribution to the community, and making it a better place for everyone there.
Put those funds towards the medical debts, and when they're paid off, set the funds aside for a retirement fund or a slush fund.
The Good Lord is always there to pick us up when we need it, and he works in very interesting ways as I have found myself.
God Bless!
SD

[Ianab]

Take the Govt money, it's there because someone back when common sense was common noticed that blind people had extra expenses and less earning power and actually did something about it.

As was mentioned already it's part of the taxes everyone pays, and no one is going to begrudge some of it being payed out to someone who actually needs it (for a change)

If you need to accept help from your church as well, well you can look at that like this. Most people give money to the church because they will 'spend it helping people'. Right now you are the people who need helping, I'm guessing you have given money to the church before, and will do so again in the future. If one of your fellow parishiners was sick / in an accident and needed help you wouldn't mind your donation going to them either.

So .. take the ENTITLEMENT, and use it to pay of the bill. If you accept some moeny from the church, look at it as a loan, pay it back from the later govt payments if you wish. After that you could allways just give away the entitlement to some needy cause.......






Like me   ;D :D

Cheers

Ian

[DomR]

Robert,
Bless you and yours.  It is evidence to me that yours is the type of family that the aid is meant for so you should take it .  If you find at some point in the future you do not need it start saving for a rainy day.  The time of need may not be yours but a neighbor, family member or friend and you can help them out in the same way.  We have all fallen at some time and the amount of time we spend down depende on how much help we need to get back on our feet.  God has given you a hand for each arm, all you need do is hold on long enough to stand on your own.  Also talk to a local banker and let them know your situation.  They may be willing to refinance and delay payments for 4-6 months so that a mar does not appear on your credit.  I have done that once during a messy divorce and actually paid the loan off before any payments were due.  God answers, all we need to do is ask.
God Bless

Dom

[CHARLIE]

Robert, I agree with the rest of our members. Take the assistance money from the government and keep your truck. You are truly in need and that's what it's for. It's a helping hand.

[logwalker]

Robert,
I would also look at this from a different angle. The hospital may be negotiable about reducing the bill to the same amount that they would pay the insurance company if you were fully insured. The sad fact of the matter is that the insurance companies negotiate with the hospitals and only pay about 60% of what they charge the person coming in without insurance. I know you said you are insured but I am thinking there might be some room in that bill. I would sit down with the administration and firmly demand that I pay no more than what a large insurer would pay. often times they will reduce it immediatly. This may not apply in your case but It came to mind. As far as the govt. money goes I would take it as long as you needed it. I do admire your convictions on this matter but the money is there to help you when you need it. Good wishes and my thoughts are going out to you and your family. Joe

[BBTom]

Robert,
I do not see any ethical dilemma.  I see no way that your ethics would be compromised by accepting what has been offered.  The only thing compromised would possibly be your pride.  I believe the good Lord asked us to be humble. 

How would you feel of your heartfelt contribution to a need was turned down?  I have the feeling that you have helped others much more than you admit. 

You and your lovely wife have my prayers. 

[Sprucegum]

I believe the advice is unanimous and has been expressed with respect for you and your situation.
Please do not hesitate - go get that money!

[rbhunter]

Robert

I have seen what you have written and can understand what is going through your mind to some extent. I have been in charge of benevelonce at my home church before I had to move to Missouri. The church helped several people during the time in which I was in charge of making the decisions. I viewed this money as Gods money and tried to do what he would have me to do with it to help people.

If you look at the book of Acts the early church was selling possesions to help each other. I truly believe that if you are active in the church and the church wants to help you should allow them to help. The bible states we should share with our brother in need.  I would say you are a brother in need and this could allow others who God has blessed to follow what God has commanded and share with you. If you let them pay the full amount or a portion of it, I think it will benefit those in the church to be able to help.

If you do turn down help from the people in your congregation make sure it is for Godly reasons and not for personnel pride. Think about the enjoyment you receive in being able to help someone and the frustration when you have to set by and watch someone struggle when there is something you could do to help but they will not allow you to.

I would urge you to talk it over with the elders in your congregation and to see what they have to say. They are the shepherds of your congregation and should be able to help you make a decision.

Randy Brown email robert63_hunter@yahoo.com

[thecfarm]

I would opt for the penision.We all need help over the rough times.Nothing a matter with accepting help.Sounds like to me you need it.Good luck.We are all here for you.

[mike_van]

Robert, the world needs more people like you.  You've carried the load long enough, I feel you should take whatever  assistance that will help you & your family. Someday someone else will need it, and i'm sure you'll be there to help them.