seeking advice on an ethical delimma

ely · October 26, 2006, 11:29:08 AM

it does me good inside to know there are folks like robert out there in the world. thanks for sharing this.

rebocardo · October 27, 2006, 01:47:28 AM

Tithes were suppose to be used to not only support the Levites, but, to help the true widows (as Paul points out), crippled people, the orphans, the blind, etc.. The church was the government.

Our government has taken the place of the church providing for widows, crippled people, blind people, people with disabilities, travellers, and immigrants. God warns you from one end of the Bible that he judges individuals and countries by how we treat the disadvantaged and travellers inside the borders. When handing down the law and he says not to trip blind people I do not think the spirit of the law was limited to physical tripping.

Consider this:

"Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. 2 And His disciples asked Him, saying, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
3 Jesus answered, "Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him"

This was related to the works Jesus was doing, but, imo it still holds true for individuals (that lady mad because you did not ask) and countries. People helping people showcases the power of God.

Have your wife accept it with God's blessing and praise him for living in a country where in God We Trust still means something and people follow his law without even knowing it.

scsmith42 · October 27, 2006, 09:35:24 AM

Robert, I am in agreement with the many eloquent replies regarding your accepting the monies available from both the state and your church.

With respect to to the question of accepting assistance from your church and the congregation, I ask you this simple question: How effective would your own ministering be if people refused to accept your help or did not even make others aware that they were in need? I think that we both know the answer is that you would be much less effective in carrying our Christ's work.

Helping others is what makes us complete in life, and fulfilling Christ's mission. To be a complete person, we need to be able to gratefully receive help from others as well as offer it in turn.

If you choose to forego your truck, make sure that it's loss does not inadvertently create a burden on your family.

I have frequently seen the Lord's hand in many challenges that I have endured, and always when I have looked back there has been something that I needed to learn. Perhaps the lesson that you are supposed to learn from all this is the one most painful of all - losing your pride. Don't let it cause you to lose your objectivity.

I'll keep you and your family in my prayers. Best wishes.

Scott

LedlieLogs · October 27, 2006, 04:43:19 PM

Robert,
My first stab at this form. Been reading for months but never posted because I can't spell and get embarrassed. That bad pride again.
I might be old enough to be your dad but I still understand your feelings. In my youth I was not a good person. I was in prison when my only child, a son, was born. The lord laid it out for me that nite. Since then my time is spent trying to be a good husband and father. My son is now 19 and in his second year of college. Praise God.
I work full time in the printing industry. The lord led me to a non profit for childeren 9 years ago. We teach the kids about the great outdoors. Camping, hunting, fishing and the likes. When I came to Wildlife Action 9 years ago we had about 300 to 400 kids per year out to the property. I suppported most of the thing myself feeling that it was the lords work. We got to a point where we had to turn away kids because I could not afford to host any more childeren. A local man asked if he could help out with a donation. My pride would not allow that even though we are a non profit 501 c3 with an A2 charitable statuis. The goverenment said its ok but I could not do it. The man came out the next Saturday to the camp knowing that I would be there like every other Saturday. He brought his wife , his preacher and a group of kids to help around the camp. As we worked we talked about how many kids we touch through the camp. Got me feeling pretty good inside. Then the preacher talked to me about not accepting what the lord is sending to the camp in the way of money help. He asked me if accepting help in the form of money was any different then letting the group of kids do yard work around the camp. I just could not seem to get there in my mind.
At the end of the day the wife of the money man got completly angry with me and my pride and let me have it both barrels. She told me that I was not doing as the lord wanted because I was turning away childeren who needed this time outside with good christen leadership. Can you say wake up call?
After a good verbal butt kicking and a day or two to think it out I went to the man, his wife and the preacher and opened my heart, pride free to ask for help. They helped with a cash donation. However the real help was that they worked with me over the next couple of years to eat my pride and let the lord work out the details of how the camp made ends meet.
We are still broke at the camp. We host about 3000 kids every year, some day trips but most camp out over a nite or two. 230 grils for a week at girls camp this year, best turn out of the three years that it has been going on.
Once the lord got me out of the way he went to work full speed and thank god he did.
Don't sell the truck you need it. The lord wants you to have it. Take the goverment money it is owed to you and your wife, that is why the lord made it available to you. Please do not let pride stand in the way, that would be a sin. What ever you decide god will have the final say.
In closing don't be the man shiped wrecked on the desert island who asked the lord to save him. A boat came by and the man refused help because the lord would save him. A sea plane came by but was turned away because the lord will save me. A helicopter came to the island and was sent away because the lord will save me. Soon the man died, and when in heaven asked the lord why didn't you save me? The lord said I tried three times but you did not listen.
The only reason I own a sawmill is to try to improve the camp with as little investment as possible. It is the lords doing not mine. He will lead but you MUST be willing to follow with out question. Even if he tells you to buy a chainsaw mill. haha
God bless you and your family, you are on the top of our prayer list
Ledlie

ronwood · October 27, 2006, 05:40:09 PM

Ledlie,

Welcome to the forum. You did quite well with the post. Keep up the good work.

Ron

Jeff · October 27, 2006, 08:32:20 PM

Ledlie, from me as well, welcome to the Forestry Forum. DOnt let that spelling thang bother you one bit. We cant read any better then you can spell so that evens things right out. ;) Again, welcome.

thecfarm · October 27, 2006, 09:00:42 PM

Ledlie,who said you can't spell?Do better than I do.Go at it.looking forward to hearing some more stories of your camp and sawing logs.Welcome to the forum.

Norm · October 28, 2006, 07:58:15 AM

Welcome to the FF Ledlie and thanks for a great insiteful post.

Don't let yourself be embarrased by spelling here, we all appreciate everyones posts no matter how they come out. My english teacher would be smacking be on the hands with her ruler if she saw some of my posts here. :D