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is the forest service screwed up every where.

Started by riggin rat, February 06, 2009, 12:17:09 PM

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Tillaway

Rocky,
How have you used it?  What projects does the USFS favor, for example would fuels reduction take precedence over say silviculture or revenue generation for western counties since the payments to western counties with Fed forest land has been curtailed.

We are looking at probable staffing cut backs come this summer.  Some of the cut backs will effect personnel with the skills to manage or do the project outlined in your link with the CSFS.
Making Tillamook Bay safe for bait; one salmon at a time.

jim king

Just be glad you dont live in a tropical country, this is what we have to go thru or the US Govt. will put us in jail via the "Lacey Act" .

CHAIN OF CUSTODY OF WOOD FROM PERUS FOREST TO MARKET

The forestry law in Peru was designed and paid for by the WWF and the US Agency for International Development.
Below listed are the steps required to harvest and export wood from Peru.
1: The first step is to purchase a piece of land to log or bid on a government owned forestry concession.
2: In order to cut timber you need a forestry logging permit in the case of land ownership or a license in case of a rented concession.
3: Once you have a forestry permit or a license it is required      that you have a licensed forester inventory the land in question and make a detailed logging and work plan including the coordinates of each tree to be harvested and a number painted on it that corresponds with the management plan .

4:  This Plan/Proposal is submitted to the Department of Natural Resources of Peru for modification and approval leading to an on site inspection.  Registration of all chainsaws is required with the Dept. Of Natural Resources.

5:  The next phase of the approval is an on site inspection of the property to be logged by the Dept. Of Natural Resources foresters and technicians verifying what trees are to be cut and how much per acre.  This includes the local name of the tree plus scientific identification.

7:  After the inspection the management plan is submitted to the Dept. of Natural Resources for approval.

8:  If approved the property plans are sent to the titling office in Lima for verification of the coordinates.

9:  If the six month process above is approved the owner of the permit can start harvesting the trees marked for removal with the prior verified coordinates of each tree to be harvested.

10:  Once the logs or cants are ready for transfer to Iquitos from the jungle an inspection by the Department of Natural Resources is required to verify that the wood came from the land designated.

11:  Each piece of wood is painted with the number of the logging license in the presence of the Department of Natural Resources official and scaled and inventoried prior to movement and forestry taxes are paid also prior to movement.

12:  With the signed inventory a permit is requested to move the wood to the factory for processing and the police are notified of the pending transport for the police inspection.

13:  Once the wood has reached an authorized and registered factory with Department of Natural Resources approval it can be cut.

14:  For removal of the wood from the factory for kiln drying a transport permit is requires for movement.

15:  Once the wood is dry and a permit is obtained it can be moved to the processing facility.

16:  Once in the licensed processing facility and manufactured into a product a sanitary certificate is obtained after inspection by a division of the Health Dept stating that the wood is clean and free of any insects or other problems.

17:  When ready to export one more inspection is required by the Dept. of Natural Resources and police prior to obtaining the permit to move the wood to the port.

18:  With the above documents a Certificate of Origin is issued by the Chamber of Commerce authenticating the origin of the product.

19:  With all of the above starts the normal procedure of packing lists, bill of lading etc for Customs and the wood can be loaded on the ship.

20:  Once in a US port the next series of inspections starts and a year later the customer gets to buy a piece of wood.

If all of this seems a little out of hand just consider that Loreto State of Peru where we are located is 30% bigger than Oregon and produces .005% 0f what Oregon produces every year.  The entire Amazon which is as big as the continental US and includes many countries produces 2.4 times the production of Oregon.


Rocky_Ranger

Somebody's been "a'pullin your leg", the $ to Counties (Secure Rural Schools or SRS) has not only been continued, they will get more than ever this year and for the following three (we will anyway).  Also, PILT has been fully funded for 2009, and a make up payment for 2008 will also be coming.  My three counties here will share about 7 million dollars in turnback $ alone for roads and schools.

"Good Neighbor" will probably favor more fuels treatments, but I know nothing of Oregon's take on the program.  In Colorado, and like I said, Colorado and Oregon were the only states covered under the "Authority", I used State employees to mark and administer the sales.  USFS had to do the NEPA, but the whole rest of the timber sale program was done with the State.  We'd usually mark it and use state folks when were were short handed, and I'd appraise it, then hand it over to CSFS where they'd advertise, bid it out, and administer it.  Worked like a charm for us.  It does cost USFS $ on the front end, but the monies made during the timber sale was collected by CSFS and then returned to US Treasury. 
RETIRED!

riggin rat

tillaway, I work for some of these mills logging the stumpage they buy. On a good note i did get a mill to take it camp run at a decent price so my problems are over for now. thanks guys

snowman

Many years ago when I was hooking on a yarder we were stretched out couple 1000 feet across a draw with a creek in the bottom. It was a big unit and we flew hundreds of loads over this creek. When we finished the FS made us pull everything out of the creek that had been caused by logging and pile it at least 10 feet away. Alot of areas were straight up and down so it had to be relayed 3 -4 times to get a flat enough spot to pile it.Winter was setting in so we were working in ankle deep snow, ice covered rocks, got soaking wet every day. A few years later I heard FS had a crew back in there throwing all the stuff we drug out back in. Apparently they had decided debris in the creek was good now, stopped erosion or something. Typical gov,1st dig a hole then fill it in, your tax dollars at work. :)

Rocky_Ranger

Can't say that don't happen, wish it didn't.  Sounds like a fish habitat project after logging was complete.  I figure the stream in question was a protected stream under the 2400-6 timber sale contract - meaning all material (slash) generated by the logging had to be removed by the Purchaser.  Then, an "ologist" decided it would be best to put some material (probably larger sized stuff) back into the stream to enhance ripple and pool characteristics.  That too is a good idea, it just looks bad when somebody didn't think far enough ahead to not make it look like "digging a whole then filling it up".   THAT is what I'm talking about, we have some awfully good folks in the USFS, doing the right things for the right reasons/ then we have some that ain't.  'Nuff said.......
RETIRED!

BaldBob

Rocky Ranger,
That probably doesn't happen a lot now, but not that long ago ( relative time is not the same for us old timers as it is for you youngsters) it happened a lot.  Back in the 60's USFS & BLM logging contracts commonly required the removal of ALL woody debris from streams in  the logging contract area.  This was deemed necessary by the fisheries biologists (in their infinite wisdom) to prevent excessive biological oxygen demand and remove barriers to migration.  As a Timber Sale Contract Administrator for the BLM on the O&C back in the early 60's, I can still remember how foolish I felt enforcing a requirement that I could easily see was not only expensive but was counterproductive.  That was strongly brought home to me when, while observing a logger winch a large old, half rotted log out of a small stream, I saw cutthroat,  steelhead , and  coho fingerlings flipped up onto the bank as the log broke free. It wasn't until some years later that studies confirmed what we had been telling the fisheries people all along - that large woody debris in the stream was a benefit to the fish. So it was ironic that years after I had supervised and required the removal of logs from streams- to help the fish (NOT) - I was setting up projects to place logs in the streams - to help the fish. I have no doubt that in some cases the same logs were involved.

Rocky_Ranger

Interesting, after rereading my post I see I misspelled the word "whole" instead of "hole"; nope, might be right the first time <grin>.

BaldBob, that too is interesting about what you've described seeing in years past; the only difference is I'm not too much a youngster but do appreciate the compliment.  My dad started in the forest service out of the CCC's.  I had the opportunities he never had in being able to 1. finish high school and 2. finish college.  I remember sitting around the breakfast table debating the merits of skidders over horse or mule logging.  I consider myself having 40 years experience the first day I started work, given the insight I got from my pop.  He left us in 1981, but I still have his mark in the way I try and figure out management techniques for what will and what won't work.   Sometimes all it takes for making a good decision on something is putting into action a little advice I heard from Willie Nelson one time - "I think I'll just sit and study on this a spell".
RETIRED!

Gary_C

Rocky, That sounds like a good plan to me. We should nominate you for the Chief's job.  8)
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Rocky_Ranger

Well, the trouble is - I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer; I just tend to look at a little bigger picture than most.  Having been a farmer, logger and dirt worker most of my life tends to "engrain" a little common sense..........
RETIRED!

Gary_C

Yep, you are exactly what's needed. Someone that knows how to pour, uh water out of a boot with out having directions on the heel.   8)
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Ron Scott

USFS does some good. ;)

Forest Employees Deliver Firewood to Local Senior

On February 7, employees from the Washakie Ranger District of the Shoshone National Forest (Wyoming) volunteered their time to cut and split firewood for a local senior citizen whose only source of heat during the cold Wyoming winters is wood.  Forest Service employees delivered approximately two cords of dry split firewood. The logs had been confiscated from an individual who had taken them illegally from the forest last summer.  Forest Service law enforcement personnel released the wood back to the ranger district last fall.

Chief's Newsletter
~Ron

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