Bandwheel bearing problem...need advise

[Ga Mtn Man]

My TK 2000 started breaking bands.  After loosing the third band in less than four hours, I knew I had a serious problem.  A little investigation revealed this:



 

The drive wheel was "walking" off the bearing and had sheared off the washers that retain the bearing in the wheel hub.  I called TK and it was clear they have seen this problem before since they now have  bearing keeper rings on the mills they are now building.  The tech told me that if the bearing was still a snug fit, I could put some lock-tite on it and replace the washers with Grade 8 and I should be OK.  If the bearing was loose in the wheel I would either need to replace the wheel or have a machine shop bore out the wheel and install a sleeve.   

Unfortunately, when I disassembled the the wheel assembly I found a pile of metal filings between the two wheels and the band wheel bearing was a loose fit  :(.  The bearing in the drive wheel was still tight.   As I was in the middle of a multi-day mobile sawing job, I needed to get back up and running fast.  I wrapped the bearing in thinly stretched electrical tape and pounded the bearing back in.  Most of the tape stayed in place and the bearing was tight in the wheel.  I then put everything back together using grade 8 hardware and sawed for almost two days before the bands started breaking again.  The bearing looks OK and I don't detect any wiggle when I pull on the wheel.

I would like to understand what caused the the wheel to walk off the bearing with so much force that it could shear six washers off.  Why does this cause bands to break?  Also, do you guys have any advise on alternate fixes for this and what I should expect to pay to have a sleeve installed? 

[drobertson]

Sorry, man, have to be there to see! can't even begin to help too many issues that can be the cause, focus on the fundamentals of pulley mounting, you will figure this one out,   david

[justallan1]

I would highly recommend taking it to a machine shop and getting it shimmed and pressed together, but this might help for now if you have no other choice.
This may not be applicable whatsoever, but what I have done on 4-wheeler hubs, which are aluminum, is to use a pop can cut to the width of the bearing race or seat. For a mill you want to make sure whatever you use for a shim sits the entire width and circumference of the bearing or you will have either wobble or a slight jumping action, which will wear out more parts down the line.
While I'm certainly no expert on these portable mills I'd have to guess what causes it is the tension pulling on the wheels and then every time it gets wavy it suddenly is pulling more. I would bet that the side of the wheel that the teeth ride is wider than the other.
Basically like driving on a washboard road, it's constantly hammering on it forcing it to wobble and the washers to break.
Just my .02 cents.

Allan

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

  Also, do you guys have any advise on alternate fixes for this?

Paul, i hate to see anyone with mill problems. It will drive you crazy and I hope you get it fixed soon and get back to milling.
But on the lighter side and in regards to your question above......do you really want my answer?  ;D
(I couldn't resist it and your welcome to pay me back.  )

[Ga Mtn Man]

I appreciate your sympathy David and yes I do want your answer, so long as it doesn't contain any of the following:

Woodmizer, Wood-Mizer, WM, LT-10 thru 70, my mill, David's mill, orange, juice, cantilever, or any word shaded orange.

Fire away grizzly.  :D

[dgdrls]

Ga,  sorry to hear of your issue,

check the pulley at the bolt between 2 & 3 o'clock,
photo you posted looks like it has a hairline crack there.

Bearing retainer plate/washer from TK sounds like a good idea.
perhaps they will send you some? 
Locktite suggestion sounds temporary at best,
I would guess the bearing, pulley clearance is too large from the factory?
I suggest what ever you do to one side
do to the other.

best
DGD

[xlogger]

Paul, after looking at that I went out in the rain to check my 2000. It has what I guess is the new larger washer they are talking about. Looks pretty simple to install if they will send you one. I was thinking your machine was newer than my TK. Ricky

[Ga Mtn Man]

Ricky-  My mill is a 2010 model.  I think they added those bearing retainer rings (one on each side of the wheel) shortly after mine was built.  You would think that it would be a recall type item given the damage that can result to the bandwheel.  I think the price I was quoted for the "kit" was around $32 shipped for one wheel.  I can buy the washers and make my own for around $8 per wheel.  Doesn't fix my wallowed out wheel hub though.  >:(

[delvis]

I appreciate your sympathy, David.  And yes, I do want your answer so long as it doesn't contain any of the following:

Woodmizer, Wood-Mizer, WM, LT-10 thru 70, my mill, David's mill, orange, juice, cantilever, or any word shaded orange.

Fire away grizzly.  :D

Sell it and upgrade to a machine painted a shade between red and yellow!

[ladylake]

I appreciate your sympathy, David.  And yes, I do want your answer so long as it doesn't contain any of the following:

Woodmizer, Wood-Mizer, WM, LT-10 thru 70, my mill, David's mill, orange, juice, cantilever, or any word shaded orange.

Fire away grizzly.  :D

Really, sell your WM every time you have a problem.   Steve

Sell it and upgrade to a machine painted a shade between red and yellow!

[Larry]

It's good we post our problems.  I went out and checked my machine and see if it has the retainer ring.  It doesn't, so I'll be doing something.

There are Loctite products made to glue a loose bearing in the hub.  If I remember right they have a certain tolerance range.  You will have to see if you can measure the gap first.  I'm not sure I would have a high hope of success, as much stress as these wheels take.

If a bearing was a loose fit on a spindle some will knurl the spindle to take up the slack.  I don't know if this can be done in a hub.  Call a machine shop and lets us know.  A shade tree mechanic would dimple the inside of the hub with a center punch.  Hopefully with some kind of uniform method.

If anybody can post a picture of the retainer ring it would be appreciated.

[Ga Mtn Man]

Here it is Larry:


This is a pic from another TK owner on the FF, not mine.

[Ga Mtn Man]

Based on the pic, I think this is the the size washer they're using:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-flat-washers/=mt4m9z

There is one on both sides of each wheel.

[ladylake]

 
Back when I first got my B20 the idle side bearing got loose in the bore, it cost around $90 to get steel sleeves put in both sides and hasn't been aparts since then.  Steve

[Larry]

Thanks Paul.

Is there just one ring per side?  No ring on the back side of the hub right.

[Ga Mtn Man]

I was told there are two per wheel.  I'm not sure,  but I think there may be a clearance issue between the ring on the back side and the square tube that holds the spindle.  Might need a washer or two on the spindle before the wheel goes on.

woodkiller recently replaced his drive-side wheel.  He should know.  I'll contact him.

[millwright]

I agree with dgdrls it appears that there is a crack near the 3 o clock bolt, if it is cracked that would cause a lot of problems with a  large dia wheel.

[Ga Mtn Man]

check the pulley at the bolt between 2 & 3 o'clock,
photo you posted looks like it has a hairline crack there.



best
DGD

Good eye, DGD.   It does look like a crack but it is just a casting defect.  Believe me, I've looked at it very closely.

[barbender]

I just replaced the idle side bearings on my orange mill, so it happens to the best of them ;)

[xlogger]

The big black washer that Paul shows in his last picture looks just like my mill except my machine is not that clean. It looks like there are 4 of them on the pully side. One on the front and back of each wheel.

[Nomad]

     Those are bearing retainers.  They're normally used where there's no shoulder or "C" ring to hold the bearing in place.  I'm surprised that TK didn't use them from the getgo.

[Will_Johnson]

Hi Ga Mtn Man:

My advice would be to call the manufacturer and have them send you a new wheel assembly at no charge, despite the fact that it appears your mill is technically out of warranty.

When you buy a mill from an amazing company that stands behind its products like few others, this is the kind of service you should expect when something major like this goes wrong within a (relatively) short time frame.

But then, what do I know?



You can call me personally at 800-942-4406.

Will

[Ga Mtn Man]

Will-  I will give that option some careful consideration and get back with you. ;D

[Ga Mtn Man]

I spoke with Will Johnson (president of TimberKing) and he is personally seeing to it that an entire new drive-side wheel assembly (not just the bandwheel) is being shipped to me at no charge. 8)   Will told me that even though my mill is out of warranty he realizes I should not be having this sort of an issue and TK wants to make it right.  FYI, he also said that they have re-designed the wheel hub since my mill was built to prevent this problem from occurring. 

I can't ask for better service than that from a company.  Thanks Will! smiley_clapping

[Magicman]

despite the fact that it appears your mill is technically out of warranty.....When you buy a mill from an amazing company that stands behind its products like few others, this is the kind of service you should expect when something major like this goes wrong within a (relatively) short time frame. 

Sometimes quality extends beyond a company's product.  It also includes it's personnel.