When is it slower to go bigger?

Dave Shepard · December 14, 2012, 09:33:25 PM

I wouldn't try to get a feel for sawing speed based just on a video. I'd try to find a way to see a mill in action that is close to what you are looking for. I started on a 24 HP Onan Woodmizer manual, and ran an identical mill with a three phase 15 HP. I now own a Super with the 51 HP CAT. In clear pine, oak or cherry, I can saw a board probably faster than the head will travel on one of the older manual mills, if I really push it. In knotty pine, I've got to back off quite a bit. For every jump in HP, you will be able to saw faster, however you may have to run thicker or wider bands to accommodate the power.

Now that we have discussed actual cutting speed in the log, we need to look at the other factors that others have mentioned. I know you have asked specifically about the cutting speed in the log, but that is actually a small part of actual production capacity. Log handling, head speed back and forth and up and down have a lot to do with how much you can produce in an hour. If I had a 51 HP CAT on that '94 LT40 manual that I learned on, I doubt I'd get more than a 5% increase in productivity because I'd still be walking around the mill clamping, turning with a peavey and setting the backstops and tapers by hand and waiting for the head to go up or down. Fortunately, mill manufacturers size the hydraulics and feeds to match the available horsepower.

Okrafarmer · December 14, 2012, 11:07:05 PM

Quote from: shelby78 on December 14, 2012, 09:22:00 PM
Quote from: customsawyer on December 14, 2012, 08:47:22 PM
The LT70 will out cut a Norwood. It is like you are comparing a Ford Ranger to a F450.

You clearly never read the whole thing or didn't understand what i was trying to get across. There was no way i was trying to compare a lt70 to my 13hp norwood.

I'm not sure, but I think all Customsawyer was trying to say, is that if you are looking for speed, you will be happy with the LT-70. I have seen one of his LT-70's at work, and it is definitely the way to go if you want to go fast through tough hardwoods. Sounds like you have the budget for it, so go ahead and get it (after demoing one or two, of course). You won't regret it.

drobertson · December 15, 2012, 08:50:52 AM

Shelby, I went to bed and today is a new day, I re-read your first post, and sorry about missing your intended question. I have a bad habit of scanning rather than reading at times, kinda like some folks you might be talking to aren't listening to what you are saying. Sorry about the rangled up mess, and after looking at your photos you are correct in the shadow affect. Nice looking lumber! Good luck in your quest, not really sure which way I would go If I was starting new, Have a good week end and a Merry Christmas 8) david

shelby78 · December 16, 2012, 08:49:13 AM

I kinda do the scanning thing sometimes myself so i can see how things go, no biggie. I can't really afford the lt70 but there is a used one close by tempting me for what i consider a reasonable price. There are also a lt40 and a super. My issue is i have had my lumbermate 2000 for 6 months or so and want bigger and faster already. I just don't want to buy a lt40 or the super and wish i went with the lt70. That said if i want the super or 70 its line of credit time for the difference.

The lt 40 with no trailor package i can get for $7500, then the lt 40 super is $18000 with a 4 cyl nissan. The big lt70 has it all from debarker to remote station to setworks 2. It has 2000 hours and i can get it for $35000 the big 62hp cat has me real interested

I'm scared if i go look at the 70 it might come home with me.

customsawyer · December 16, 2012, 08:49:56 AM

Here is a video of a LT70. Hope it helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_lwnVIuRq0&feature=player_embedded

drobertson · December 16, 2012, 09:15:06 AM

thanks custom! you have it going on brother! I love the 70's the saw that is, although I grew up in the 70's as well 8) I love the power and watching the dust flying out like this. Nice work, david

mikeb1079 · December 16, 2012, 09:26:38 AM

jake that is a sweet video! man that mill can sling some dust. very nice setup as well, thanks for posting. who's log yard is that in the background?

slider · December 16, 2012, 09:47:47 AM

Shelby I was looking for a used 40 super when i found a deal on a LT 70 .I'm just part time so production numberes are not a big deal.I think a 40 would be just fine for me but this 70 is one more fine machine.Support equipment is probably more important.If you are looking for numberes.

Okrafarmer · December 16, 2012, 11:26:20 AM

One thing's for sure, if you get the LT-70, you will never lack for power or speed.

terrifictimbersllc · December 16, 2012, 11:51:53 AM

How fast a mill can cut flat lumber, not how fast it can cut.

Okrafarmer · December 16, 2012, 12:02:43 PM

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on December 16, 2012, 11:51:53 AM
How fast a mill can cut flat lumber, not how fast it can cut.

Yes, I think most of us are trying to cut flat lumber these days. At least in one dimension!

customsawyer · December 16, 2012, 12:38:00 PM

The lumber I produce is of better quality than the big mill I cut for. Keep in mind that the reasons I am able to cut at the rate that I cut at is that I run 1¾"X.055 blades that I sharpen myself. This allows me to push the mill harder than some folks think you can.
I don't want to hijack this thread and take away from the questions Shelby was asking. I just wanted him to see how the LT70 can cut to help him make up his mind about which mill.

shelby78 · December 16, 2012, 04:47:55 PM

Quote from: customsawyer on December 16, 2012, 12:38:00 PM
The lumber I produce is of better quality than the big mill I cut for. Keep in mind that the reasons I am able to cut at the rate that I cut at is that I run 1¾"X.055 blades that I sharpen myself. This allows me to push the mill harder than some folks think you can.
I don't want to hijack this thread and take away from the questions Shelby was asking. I just wanted him to see how the LT70 can cut to help him make up his mind about which mill.

Thanks for taking the time to post the video, i do appreciate it. I plan to view the lt70 as it is only 1 hour away from me and all the lt40's start at 4 hours away. I mean really i'm saving gas money by buying the lt70 right?

I have my lumbermate 2000 listed for sale so when it sells its time for the upgrade

ladylake · December 16, 2012, 04:55:38 PM

Quote from: Chuck White on December 14, 2012, 10:15:36 AM
Quote from: shelby78 on December 13, 2012, 09:21:00 PM
I have a norwood lumbermate 2000 with a 13hp honda. To me, i wish it would cut faster but i have been doing alot of wide oak lately. I'm in the market for a hydraulic mill (maybe a lt40) but am wondering something... Watching the videos right from woodmizers site it doesn't look like its cutting much faster than my mill does?

My question is how much hp will the hydraulics suck up? What about the alternator? Basically if i do switch to a woodmizer it would probly be a 28hp gas. I know all the extras draw hp, but how much? Is a 28 hp hydraulic equal power wise to a 23hp standard or maybe even lower? When its cold i will also assume it will draw more amps to feed/head movement so in turn draw more hp...

I have my mill up for sale but don't want to set myself up for dissapointment getting a new mill thinking it should cut twice as fast with twice the hp. Your thoughts?

Does anyone have any video of themself cutting oak on a lt40? I took a video of myself cutting on my mill with some wider oak and will host it somewhere to post.

Most of the extras are not in use while the blade is actually cutting!
The hydraulics, the loader, turner, toe boards, clamp, log stops, and the electrical up/down are not doing anything while you're cutting.

About the only electrical that is doing anything is the feed, the charging system and the lube-mizer.

This youtube video might help you out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O01vkDEMoyY

With the electric over hydraulics the alternater is always taking power from the engine to recharge the battery even if you not using the hydraulics. I'd have to guess 2 to 3 hp. Steve

Dave Shepard · December 16, 2012, 05:21:20 PM

It shouldn't be too hard to figure out the max draw on the alternator. 12volts x 50 (?) amps? I don't think that's even one HP, and only at max draw. I'll have to borrow an ammeter and put it on my mill and see how long it draws for and what the load is.

drobertson · December 16, 2012, 06:22:20 PM

custom, you have robbed nothing brother! good stuff you have shown. This is why I mentioned having more cut speed, means more equipment to handle the lumber. the first time I went to a circle mill, (not knowing) they wanted me to start sawing, I did not know how fast a blade could really go through a log. I have seen pics, and videos but in person it is mind boggling. the same is close with the lt-70's compared to most bandsaws out there one must see it and feel it to believe. The same should be considered when taking the boards, or cants off, there has to be means to the end of speed of cut or the cut speed means nothing. thanks for the video custom,

ladylake · December 16, 2012, 07:19:37 PM

Quote from: Dave Shepard on December 16, 2012, 05:21:20 PM
It shouldn't be too hard to figure out the max draw on the alternator. 12volts x 50 (?) amps? I don't think that's even one HP, and only at max draw. I'll have to borrow an ammeter and put it on my mill and see how long it draws for and what the load is.

Just looked it up, every 25 amps = 1 hp. WM alternaters I think are 105 amp to handle the load which could = a bit over 4 hp . I guess the 2 - 3 hp I guessed is real close to real life. Steve

drobertson · December 16, 2012, 08:05:35 PM

Wow, never looked it up, never really felt the need, If this is the case, and if I am thinking right, mine is a 175 amp alternator. This said, never really noticed any drop in power, although it might explain how a 25 horse electrric can just bore through a log. There must be some hp drops elsewhere. Not complaining, just saying