U.S. Forest Service

[Rocky_Ranger]

Dang right! :D

[Ron Scott]

Forest Service waives fees on Veterans Day

Veterans Day, Nov.11, the Forest Service continues a tradition of waiving fees at some recreation sites. The Forest Service is working to ensure as many visitors as possible have the opportunity to experience the great outdoors and take advantage of recreational activities America's national forests and grasslands have to offer.

Chief's Newsletter

[SwampDonkey]

I hear the forest service is encouraging the youth of the country to experience the forests and outdoors with some of their current advertising on the radio.

However, there needs to be more walking and hiking than sitting during that recreating. ;)

[Rocky_Ranger]

Couldn't agree more, Swamp; we've went from about 90 kids to around 3,000 this year.  Lot's of OHV training, fishing, etc.  I been hiking a few trails of late and looks like we might need to maybe do some trail maintenance.  A little sweat helps appreciate a days work.  Cut & pile some brush, clean a few tirlets, put in a few waterbars, etc.  I like the aim of the program - might even fish and recreate after all those chores get did...   8)

[Ron Scott]

Burned Forest Value Central to Tahoe Logging Fight

Associated Press (April 9) — A recent lawsuit filed to prevent the US Forest Service from logging in a swath of burned Sierra forest claims that burned forests are ecologically significant and should be left to regenerate on their own.

But the idea that the blackened forest should be left alone is not an easy sell in Lake Tahoe, where 250 homes were destroyed in a June 2007 south shore blaze. Moreover, the US Forest Service contends that logging and restoration are necessary to prevent a similar fire in the future.

The E-Forester

[timerover51]

If the area had homes in it, not sure why there should be an objection, as it had already been subject to disturbance.  As for regenerating on its own, the problem there is trying to keep invasive species out and making sure native species are there.

[SwampDonkey]

We don't have an invasive species problem tree-wise here when depending on natural regeneration. Sometimes it's just not spruce in straight rows.  Usually aspen, birch, red maple and fir. Just look at all the old farms abandoned. Some have been harvested twice since they grew back from fields cleared in the 19th C. ;)

[northwoods1]

If the area had homes in it, not sure why there should be an objection, as it had already been subject to disturbance.  As for regenerating on its own, the problem there is trying to keep invasive species out and making sure native species are there.

The people who are objecting to it may be objecting because they simply don't want to see a timber sale happen and the forest managed for timber production. It is the same old story nothing new here. The greenies want it left alone that is the long and short of it.

[Rocky_Ranger]

I know it's not timber management <gasp>, and I don't think it is even the salvage.  I have seen both sides of the argument for a long time and sure can't see how we got into this mess in the first place.  National Forest are managed for use - period.  How we define what use, and the degree of use should be how we are "framing" the discussion.  I certainly don't see anything wrong with salvaging a product with value over not dong so.  There are, however, studies out that say it's better to leave the salvage on-site.  Better for the ecology.  We try and rethink this stuff too much and we won't have anything on this Continent but Native Americans and a few Spanish along our southern tier of States.  'Course, the Native Americans probably think that'd be OK too........... <grin> 

[northwoods1]

I know it's not timber management <gasp>, and I don't think it is even the salvage.  I have seen both sides of the argument for a long time and sure can't see how we got into this mess in the first place.  National Forest are managed for use - period.  How we define what use, and the degree of use should be how we are "framing" the discussion.  I certainly don't see anything wrong with salvaging a product with value over not dong so.  There are, however, studies out that say it's better to leave the salvage on-site.  Better for the ecology.  We try and rethink this stuff too much and we won't have anything on this Continent but Native Americans and a few Spanish along our southern tier of States.  'Course, the Native Americans probably think that'd be OK too........... <grin>  

Rocky your absolutely right I just read some online articles about this specific situation and it clearly is not a case of the forest service wanting to manage this ground for timber production. And there may be sound ecological reasons for leaving this burnt over area as is. But all too often, and what my original point was, is that different groups simply object to managing federal and at all... they want it left as is. Now, in my mind I think we all pay to employ people in the U.S. Forest Service to create and implement policy such as in this situation. But yet there are so many groups that just want to buck the system any way possible because ultimately they do not like managing federal land for timber production at any level. It is about not cutting trees and harvesting wood. That is it in a nutshell.
I just read the most interesting book called "Commerce of the Prairies" by Josiah Gregg. He was a Dr. and a well educated man for his time http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josiah_Gregg even then, he was talking about how he thought the ecology of the american west was being significantly changed through the absence of fire brought on by mans intervention. This was in the 1820's to 40s' but a lot of his observations and thoughts were based on what he had learned from "old timers". One of the most interesting things, I thought, that he wrote about was how since the the large fires that had been naturally occurring for so long were becoming more scarce, this was causing the forested areas to expand and encroach more and more upon the grasslands in many areas, quite a significant amount. He thought this was causing 'the climate' to change! Primarily because the amount of annual precipitation was changing for many areas. He thought mans intervention upon the natural ecological system (specifically as it relates to the amount of natural wildfires) was causing a change in the climate.

[Rocky_Ranger]

Well, now ya went and done it - I gotta find & read that book.....

[Ron Scott]

Help the Forest Service Locate American Elm "Survivors"

US Forest Service - Researchers at the Northern Research Station in Delaware, Ohio, would like to expand current efforts to screen American elm trees that may be tolerant or resistant to Dutch elm disease. To facilitate this effort, agency employees are asking for the help of state foresters, park employees, and the interested public to identify large American elm trees on their landscapes.

http://nrs.fs.fed.us/disturbance/invasive_species/ded/survivor_elms/

The E-Forester

[tyb525]

We've actually got quite a few large, healthy red elms on our property.

[Ron Scott]

USFS Defends Plan to Log Burned Forest at Tahoe

Mercurynews.com, Published by Scott Sunner, June 20th
Responding for the first time to a lawsuit by conservationists, the U.S. Forest Service says the threat of another major wildfire like the one that destroyed 250 homes at Lake Tahoe four years ago outweighs any concerns that its plans to log much of what's left of the burned forest would harm a rare woodpecker or other wildlife. But environmentalists suing to block the post-fire salvage logging on Tahoe's south shore say the agency is exaggerating the fire danger and downplaying the anticipated impacts of logging about half of the 3,000 acres that burned in the Angora fire in June 2007.

The E-Forester

[Ron Scott]

Boy Scouts of America celebrate 100 years by planting 100,000 trees in the Flathead National Forest

During the last weekend in June, the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) joined with the Arbor Day Foundation, AT&T and the Flathead National Forest to dedicate 100,000 trees planted on the Forest.  The activity was part of BSA's landmark 100th anniversary celebration and a nationwide tree-planting campaign with the Arbor Day Foundation.

The effort culminated in the official designation of the Boy Scouts of America Centennial Forest, located on a 30,000-acre tract of land on the Flathead National Forest.  The trees will help restore acres burned in the 2007 Brush Creek Wildland Fire.  As such, they will serve as a lasting legacy of the BSA's 100th anniversary, will provide habitat for wildlife including the endangered grizzly bear, and help to filter the rivers and lakes that drain into Flathead Lake, one of the cleanest freshwater lakes in the world.

The Chief's Newsletter

[Ron Scott]

Conservation Groups Challenge Logging in Black Hills National Forest

Associated Press (November 7) - Four conservation groups-the Biodiversity Conservation Alliance, the Western Watersheds Project, the Native Ecosystems Council, and the Prairie Hills Audubon Society-are suing the US Forest Service over what they call "extreme levels" of logging in the Black Hills National Forest of southwest South Dakota and northeast Wyoming.

The lawsuit, filed October 28 in US District Court in Wyoming, alleges that the Forest Service has not lived up to earlier promises to protect wildlife and habitat in the 1.2 million acre forest.

The E-Forester

[Bobus2003]

Conservation Groups Challenge Logging in Black Hills National Forest

Associated Press (November 7) - Four conservation groups-the Biodiversity Conservation Alliance, the Western Watersheds Project, the Native Ecosystems Council, and the Prairie Hills Audubon Society-are suing the US Forest Service over what they call "extreme levels" of logging in the Black Hills National Forest of southwest South Dakota and northeast Wyoming.

The lawsuit, filed October 28 in US District Court in Wyoming, alleges that the Forest Service has not lived up to earlier promises to protect wildlife and habitat in the 1.2 million acre forest.

The E-Forester

Theirs a bunch of crap like this goin on right now.. We are logging to heavy, We arn't logging enough to stop the beetles... If its not one thing its another

[SwampDonkey]

Our problem here is we had too much capacity in a small province. The piece size was getting smaller and smaller. There is lots of trees, but harvesting practices pushed the rotation time shorter. It all regenerates pretty good. But harvesting all the older stuff helped destroy the deer herds, no older growth softwood for wintering. The Christmas Mountains are stripped bare for the next 80 years before the next forest becomes mature. That wasn't all harvesting, a lot of it blew down in 1995. That area is the head of all the major rivers here. Trout fishing suffered to because of roads everywhere and stream environment changed. The water no longer boils with trout when you toss a fly out there. The brook trout is a beautiful fish. Right now where the mature softwood was left as DMA's (deer management areas) is where all the deer are back away from the settlements. If the companies blat enough and they'll have that cut to. These are spruce dominated and those trees live for centuries.

[Ron Scott]

US Seeks to Bolster Firefighter Ranks by Boosting Pay and Benefits as Wildfires Increase
The Associated Press via The Colorado Sun, June 28, 2021
U.S. wildfire managers are considering shifting from seasonal to full-time firefighting crews to deal with what has become a year-round wildfire season and making the jobs more attractive by increasing pay and benefits. There's a push in Congress to increase firefighter pay and convert at least 1,000 seasonal wildland firefighters to permanent, full-time, year-round workers. It comes as fires raging in Western states parched by severe drought have burned more than 2,000 square miles this year.
The E-Forester

[Ron Scott]

Forest Service Closes 5 of 6 Arizona National Forests, Some Recreation Areas to Remain Open
Northeast Valley News, June 29, 2021
Last week, the Department of Agriculture's Forest Service in Arizona closed five of its six national forests to visitors to reduce the likelihood of human caused fires during the current extreme fire danger that persists across the state. The Coronado National Forest in southeastern Arizona and southwestern New Mexico is the only national forest in Arizona to remain open.
The E-Forester

[Don P]

I haven't heard in some time, I think they were paying an average of $15/hr? I wonder what they are offering now?

[Thomasjw4]

A rookie firefighter for the FS was making less than $12 an hour until this new legislation.   Any Federal wildland firefighter is the epitome of overworked and underloved.  

[SwampDonkey]

They are worth a minimum of $25/hr, putting life and limb on the line. If you keep low balling the wages pretty soon you'll just be sitting back and watching it all burn, including your town. A fella using a clearing saw for a living is getting that, albeit piece work, but paying into the same pension plan and EI plan as everyone else. Some weeks you're making $40 an hr, but a lot more walking to. Yes, some weeks can be tough in real bad ash rock and thickets, but a good boss doesn't through all the crap at you at once. ;)

[HemlockKing]

A rookie firefighter for the FS was making less than $12 an hour until this new legislation.   Any Federal wildland firefighter is the epitome of overworked and underloved.  

That’s pretty sad. Nobody gets paid enough. Not in any trade. Done with it. When you ask someone to come work you’re asking them to leave behind their valuable time that could be spent with family, tending to your own tasks etc. I bet they expect these rookies to pay for their own lunches too? Which that energy will be spent doing labour ON THE JOB, so I look at that as the same as using my own vehicle for a task on the job and they expect me to pay for the fuel. Every gets scammed, too much greed. I just recently decided I’m done with it all and I will slave for myself. Nobody else

All this and go home with nothing extra because it’s gone to rent, food, necessity bills etc, so at this point what are you even living for? They give you barely enough to survive to be able to come back the next day to work. Stuck in a loop of poverty. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Sadly this is too often the case with many of these high energy jobs. Way underpaid with little opportunity to make it into a living wage. Even the line bosses don't make what they are worth. Nobody gets paid for the risk.
 When I got my EMT cert (at a fairly late age) I was running as a volunteer and doing a LOT of calls which led to a lot of experience and through sheer repetition I got pretty good. Often I would work on jobs with other agencies including the local career EMS agency who we called in for ALS jobs (we were only BLS), so I got to know just about all of the paramedics over a period of time and they began asking me if I would come work for them on a per diem basis (or full time if I wanted). I could grab shifts when they fit my schedule. SO I looked into it for side money as a lot of other volunteers had done. But found out they were paying only $12.50/hr. Now EMS is not as high risk as firefighting, but it is not exactly a desk job either. Working car accidents, crawling in vehicles to work on patients at 3am during a snowstorm, driving with haste in the very worst of road conditions, exposure to communicable diseases, puke, feces, blood, and all that other 'stuff' makes it a JOB a lot of the time. Paramedics were only making about $15-16/hr at that time. I still find that unbelievable and unacceptable especially when you consider the level of training and the constant continuing education they need to maintain. One mistake on a drug dose and they are 'done'. The stress is considerable. I found that most paramedics I worked with averaged about 90 shift hours a week at between 2 and 3 different agencies, just to make a living. True, they get to nap between calls but between paperwork, hospital time, rig checks, re-stocking, cleaning and all the other stuff, they really don't sit around as much as the public may think.
 Yeah, these employers use all kinds of tactics to attract younger help like the 'adventure and excitement, be a hero, live on the edge, save lives' aspect and how they learn skills that will make them valuable to move into better positions. The truth is they are just rotating through good people, burning them out and replacing them on a continuous basis. We still have a culture where manual work is not considered to be as honorable as a desk job, or worth as much.