Hand cutting with forwarder how many of you do it?

[logman81]

Thanks for the info jd540 I may go with the forwarder I have not looked at it yet. I wish I could keep the skidders and get the forwarder but can't afford both. I'm only a one man show and can only run one machine at a time. I do have my tractor with the skidding grapple so I could yard wood out to main trails with that and keep the forwarder on the main trail. I understand about older equipment my TJ is old but is in good shape. I believe if you are easy and carful with the older stuff it will work just fine for a small crew. I first got started in the business with a '49 JD 40 crawler with a winch that was old but did the job it had to do.

[chep]

To the original question.

I hand cut for a Rottne Rapid 6 wheel forwarder. We work in some pretty wild terrain, and I think that a good operator and a good machine can go just about anywhere.
It is a different style of cutting. You have to learn to cross your trail with wood. Herringbone is what I call it. If a trail runs down the middle, picture your trees crossing the trails like X's, Make sense.  Trying to keep the tops out of the trail but the product reachable.
  It can easily turn into a nightmare.

But the thing no one has mentioned yet is safety! No in and out of cab. No getting behind or in front of machine to hook chokers. Pull down snags, move logs, put in crossings. The list goes on. If you have the right terrain for it, and the right wood. If all your cutting is pecker pole firewood, then it is a headache to pick up, but in mixed wood or large sawtimber it is a dream!  go for it. No bumper trees as well! Well, right now I am learning to run the thing and I have created more than a few bumper trees learning my size...
 

[logman81]

Chep, you have some good points that is why I'm leaning more towards making the switch. Big safety advantage, no fighting cable and chokers, wood stays clean, sorting the logs would be quicker and easier and a forester that said he would send more work my way if I had one. Only a few down sides that I see is trucking is going to be more expensive, can't haul it on a tag along and there is a little more maintenance involved. A small price to pay for the advantages you gain I think. Most of the lots that I cut are a mix of small diameter firewood and saw logs.

[logman81]

 

  

  

   here's a few pics of the type of logs and terrain that I cut mostly.

[logman81]

Are chains on the tires of a forwarder as important to have as on a skidder? This forwarder from the pics has pretty good tread on the tires.

[craigc]

Chep,  You are right cutting for a forwarder is total different.  We flag our trails before we cut .  We don't lay them on the trail but try angle them off of the trail.  With the grapple saw we can pull the log to us a process at the stump that way we don't have to drive "down" the tree to pick it up.  When people watch a forwarder they think it is slow,  but a forwarder is not in a rush to get out of the woods like a skidder.  Instead you are trying to get maximum wood out on each load.  What is nice also is no bucking logs after a day of cutting. Instead you can cut all day, come out of the woods the truck is loaded and  landing is clean. 

[treeslayer2003]

logman, that looks about like here. the main reason I never tried one is I think it would be stuck a lot, another guy tried an old franklin packerback and that was the big problem, it just wouldn't stay up on most jobs.

[craigc]

Is that a Solo?

[logman81]

No a jonsered  630 super.

[timberlinetree]

 

  We in the process of buying a forwarder just owe a little  bit more. We bought it to run logs to the landing,sort logs,make nice piles of wood so truckers are happy,keep the wood clean and to corduroy wet spots and load trailers. Hills and off the skid trail are not part of the plan. Some times the landings are small around here and people complain about messes.leaving the chunks of wood in the woods and just having ready to go nice piles of logs is our goal. In New England I can't see just having a 4 wheel forwarder(6 or 8 wheel driffrent story I would think)and not a skidder to feed it. Tree length skidding has worked well but Marcia and I decided that the added forwarder will be better plus our 401k consists only of iron. . Good luck.

[logman81]

Nice timberlinetree, looks to be a 170 franklin. Is it a single bunk or double can't tell in pic. Most of the guys around me that have forwarders only have them and no other machine and do very well. I think you just have to have a good plan and a good system. I looking into the forwarder for the very same reason you are.

[timberlinetree]

Thanks Logman81. It's actually a 1987 Franklin 132 and the bunks have been extended. We can't wait to get it! Miss swinging logs around.... We sold our log truck a few years back Good luck in your searching - There are a lot of Tree Farmer porters up in Canada!

[logman81]

Ok thanks I wasn't sure what model. The one interested in id a. 1978 508 pettibone mountain goat edition, has a barko  40 loader and a 353 DT and is a long bunk. Having a bit of trouble getting the guy to return my phone call so I can check it out. I need to look at it soon to see if it's any good as I have a guy that might be interested in my TJ.

[barbender]

I don't see how you could make it work with a forwarder hand cutting unless you have big timber. I realize you New England guys have some of that nice wood where it could work, I think thinning in nice hardwood stands is where that set up could shine. We don't have much of that type of wood, other than SE Mn where we have nice hardwoods more like PA or Ohio than the rest of MN. Up in northern MN, it's pulpwood country and a forwarder works behind a processor, period. Some one man cable skidder/chainsaw shows also have a tandem axle truck with a loader, they can clean up, sort, and pile on the landing and do firewood deliveries etc.

[barbender]

Another thing Logman, I saw a video of a Pettibone forwarder like you're talking about, you have to get out and stand on a platform to run the loader, nothing like the more modern forwarders where you spin the seat around to run the loader. You're not going to have any easier time getting parts for a Pettibone forwarder than you did for the Pettibone skidder you had.

[logman81]

Well guys I have a buyer for my skidder if I want to sell it . He came to look at my TJ and said he will buy it. I said that I have to look at the forwarder first, told him if it's junk I'm keeping my TJ. Now if I can only get ahold of this guy!

[logman81]

I don't mined if it is that way standing at the controls no real big deal to me. Parts can be a little hard to find but the only parts that I would be worried about would be probably axels and maybe transfer case, barko is still in business so parts for the loader can most likely be had.  It's a component machine for the most part. And I know a good machine shop to make parts if I needed. Nothing set in stone though I may look at it and it could be total junk! It hard to make decision when a the forester tells you that he you give you more lots if you had one.

[barbender]

Please understand, I'm not saying you have a bad idea, either Logman. If I were thinning high value hardwood lots I would be inclined towards a forwarder myself. Just have your eyes wide open ;)

[logman81]

Thanks barbender, I understand there are a lot of things that are making me think about going with a forwarder. It wood save on the amount of chain sharpening, cleaner wood happier mills with better pricing, less ground disturbance , neater piles you know the rest.

[barbender]

Yep, I know what you mean. It all kind of depends on the wood you have available. I can see where if you get out of the nice hardwood (or big softwoods) production would really stink. One thing with forwarders (even the old ones), they unfortunately seem to fetch a way higher price than a comparable skidder.

[logman81]

Yeah the guy still hasn't gotten Back to me so I don't know what's going on. I'm going to try once more tomorrow if he doesn't get back to me I'm probably just going to keep the jack and finish up this currant job and make some $$.

[timberlinetree]

Might be a good idea to check the lift capacity on the machine. Don't want to stress out a machine that might be made for pulp wood. Good luck!

[David-L]

logman, think of maintenance also when buying something old. unless it's been gone through you could spend alot of time turning wrenches. Still think for getting material to the landing a cable skidder is the best for production, Especially for TSI work where they don't want you running over the future crop of trees.
I have a buddy with a C5 Tree farmer that has a Duetz that he is selling and I know he has put alot!!! of money into it. He is older and bought a 610 short bunk Jack as he needed heat. He's still chopping and is in his late sixties maybe more. his motto for a good start for the day is " first tree down before daybreak and the rest just happens". Let me know and I will give you his #, call me to check in.

                                David l

[logman81]

Timberlinetree the barko 40 is rated at  3200lbs. That is something to test out for sure. David I understand what your saying, most of the crews around here have gone to grapple and forwarders. Cable skidders are probably a little more productive but do a lot of damage to the forest floor dragging logs through it. It would also make sorting logs out by grade, species, length ect. And it would solve my problem with not having a way to load peoples trucks and trailers with firewood logs. Have a lot of guys that will buy tree length off my jobs but they don't have a way to load it and I don't either as of right now. So that might boost income if I could do that.

[David-L]

Log man , that C5 I mentioned is a forwarder. He hasn't advertised it yet and is in town here. I am around fixing today, give me a call and I will tell you about this machine.

                                          David l