Getting paid

rockman · January 06, 2012, 02:08:29 PM

I was talking to a guy today who has a couple "portable" sawmills, He does not do portable sawing anymore because he said he had to much trouble getting paid for mobile jobs.

I am giving SERIOUS thought to buying a mill to do mobile sawing, but this has me thinking. For you guys that do mobile sawing, do you require payment at job completion? 30 days? Deposit before you start job? What happens if customer refuses to pay? It's a shame this is a concern, but it's a different world today than when I grew up. If this is the wrong spot for this thread please relocate.

Thanks, Kevin

Magicman · January 06, 2012, 02:27:13 PM

I get paid at the end of the sawing job. With jobs that extend for several weeks, we may settle up at the end of each week.

I have never, ever not gotten paid for a saw job, or had to follow up on a payment.

My Saw Contract states when payment is due, and when we cover the contract before sawing begins, I cover each line with the customer.

I was unable to search and find the Sawing Contract thread. I get an error message, "Unable to access the search daemon".

4speed · January 06, 2012, 02:28:41 PM

Rockman,
I can't offer any advice as I am in the same boat. I intend to purchase a mobile mill for my own use in building a house, but definitely have not ruled out the possibility of using the mill to supplement my income. I own a Bail Bond company and I too have wondered about payment of mobile jobs. I know I would be dealing with a different class of folks (hopefully), but after you've been burned as much as I have, the concern is always there.

Magicman · January 06, 2012, 02:32:45 PM

OK, I did a manual "search" and found the contract thread. Item #4 is about payment.

Link

rockman · January 06, 2012, 02:35:54 PM

Thank You for the insight Lynn, I just wish I would have spelled PAID right. :P

pnyberg · January 06, 2012, 03:58:59 PM

Payment is expected at the end of the job by cash or check unless other arrangements are made in advance. Other arrangements have been made exactly once, and I got that check today for a job done between Christmas and New Years.

I've had exactly one check bounce on the first attempt to deposit it. The embarrassed customer claimed there was some mix up in moving money between accounts. I held the check for a few days until the customer said he was sure that it would clear. The check did clear on the second deposit.

I don't require a deposit.

--Peter

Dave VH · January 06, 2012, 04:03:47 PM

I'm new to milling, but I've been a self employed contractor for 13 years now. Getting paid, I think ,has more to do with reading the client up front, before you ever start.
Contracts are great, but sometimes they can scare a customer away.
I have turned down great jobs in the past on a gut feeling, only to find that they never had any intention on paying in the first place.
I've never been stiffed, I've had people try. That's when I downsized. I had 15 guys working for me and the quality started suffering because I wasn't able to keep a good eye on things. If your work is above reproach, and you do what you say, when you say, your chances of being paid without problems are better.
If you have a bad gut feeling on someone, it's easy to research people online, (newspaper articles, lawsuits, what have you). I really follow my gut and it hasn't let me down yet. If your uneasy, get a contract, or do the research before you take the job. If you're worrisome and nervous, the work aint no fun.
Good luck

steamsawyer · January 06, 2012, 04:32:38 PM

Rockman,

With my little shirt tail oppeation I don't have a lot to worry about. I am not really set up as a business but more of a hobby. I saw for other ranchers and farmers that are mostly close friends and I let them do most of the hard work. However I'm not alergic to making a little money either. Let's just say when they come in with logs they'r not getting out the gate with lumber unless it is paid for.

I have been in several other buisnesses over the years though. Nine years in small engines and lawnmowers in the 60s, three years in boats and motors in the 70s, and 22 years in a full service welding and machine shop through the 70s, 80s, and early 90s. So I've heard it all. I showed up at a general contractor office one time with a suitcase, said I was moving in till I got paid for the I beam that went out on his condo job.

I like the contract idea. My pilosophy has allways been that when the job is done you are talking about your money now not the customers. If you are up front with your customer from the begining there will be no surprize to him when you are standing there with your hand out. If you have that contract you have a better chance in litigation. If you run into a questionable individual it's easy to check them out and see what reputation they have.

Magicman,
I think its funny, I have been calling my sawmill Knothole Lumber Co for 5 years, go figger.

Alan

Tree Feller · January 06, 2012, 04:52:04 PM

I don't have a mill but I routinely haul my logs to a local sawyer to have them sawn. The sawyer is rarely home but I leave my loaded trailer there with sawing instructions in a sandwich baggie attached to the jack stand. When the lumber is ready, I go pick it up, stacked neatly on my trailer. Again, the sawyer is rarely there but I leave a check inside whichever vehicle he says to place it.

He's never asked me to sign a contract although the sawing jobs he does for me are always small ones, usually 400 - 500 bf. It's a great arrangement, especially since he only charges $0.23 per bf. He does fine work, too.

POSTON WIDEHEAD · January 06, 2012, 04:55:30 PM

It happened to me once. Working with the Forestry Service, I am lucky to know the Magistrate and have sawed lumber for him.

A customer would not pay me after I sawed 2100 bf for him. Made 1 call to the Judge......had my money in less than 24 hours. 8)

Chuck White · January 06, 2012, 05:30:07 PM

I usually use a contract, but there are a few that I'm on a personal level with so we don't do the contract.

I've never had to wait for payment. On my contract, there's a space for how and when payment is expected. It's usually cash or check upon completion of the sawing.

terrifictimbersllc · January 06, 2012, 07:47:03 PM

Quote from: pnyberg on January 06, 2012, 03:58:59 PM
Payment is expected at the end of the job by cash or check unless other arrangements are made in advance. Other arrangements have been made exactly once, and I got that check today for a job done between Christmas and New Years.

I've had exactly one check bounce on the first attempt to deposit it. The embarrassed customer claimed there was some mix up in moving money between accounts. I held the check for a few days until the customer said he was sure that it would clear. The check did clear on the second deposit.

I don't require a deposit.

--Peter

Peter describes my experience almost exactly. A few times the customer forgot his checkbook or something like that. Working with someone all day who likes wood it just doesn't seem an issue. But I do have to ask for the payment once in a while. I total things up right after I turn off the mill, before I pack up. Also my agreement says that there is a $50 charge for a check returned for any reason. That happened only once and I didn't charge for it, the customer was very embarrassed.

bugdust · January 06, 2012, 08:00:02 PM

I have been stiffed only once and that was by a local doctor. He ordered several red oak 8-6"X6" and 24- 2"X10". I sent word by his neighbor for him not to bother calling for another order. When we meet on the street it's as if nothing ever happened (at least in his mind.)

rockman · January 06, 2012, 08:45:30 PM

Thank You all for the replies fella's, I guess it isn't much of an issue, thats a relief.

Tahnks,
Kevin

roquevalente · January 21, 2012, 06:03:38 PM

getting paid is a nice topic , come to bolivia and you will pay in advance and don't get anything delivered or you do the service and don't get paid.

rockman · January 21, 2012, 06:12:08 PM

Quote from: roquevalente on January 21, 2012, 06:03:38 PM
getting paid is a nice topic , come to bolivia and you will pay in advance and don't get anything delivered or you do the service and don't get paid.

A benefit of small government?

Buck · January 22, 2012, 12:03:11 AM

I've never been "stiffed" on custom sawing. Sales of lumber is a whole different story.

vt k-9 · January 22, 2012, 09:21:53 AM

2011 was a bad year for getting payed for me. I started in january sawing 7 thousand feet for a guy that wanted done right now. Got it sawed but he never picked it up. I called him on the first of april and told him he had 10 days to pick it up.Never heard from him. Did a 9 thousand foot job for another guy. I looked at the logs before sawing them. He had pulled them up a dirt road to a field.Asked him why. He needed to smooth out his road . When I got done sawing he said he had no money.I just hooked up and went home. It seemed most of my other jobs Ihad to fight for my money so I got my cdl and got a job driving truck. I still do sawing on weekends. I have some sawing jobs lined up for the spring so I will be back sawing full time. Most folks are honest. I just had a bad year. Will

rockman · January 22, 2012, 10:25:42 AM

Quote from: vt k-9 on January 22, 2012, 09:21:53 AM
2011 was a bad year for getting payed for me. I started in january sawing 7 thousand feet for a guy that wanted done right now. Got it sawed but he never picked it up. I called him on the first of april and told him he had 10 days to pick it up.Never heard from him. Did a 9 thousand foot job for another guy. I looked at the logs before sawing them. He had pulled them up a dirt road to a field.Asked him why. He needed to smooth out his road . When I got done sawing he said he had no money.I just hooked up and went home. It seemed most of my other jobs Ihad to fight for my money so I got my cdl and got a job driving truck. I still do sawing on weekends. I have some sawing jobs lined up for the spring so I will be back sawing full time. Most folks are honest. I just had a bad year. Will

Wow, 16,000 bd. ft. for free ? For that amount of money I hope you are persuing them legally.
Kevin

Taylortractornut · January 22, 2012, 12:13:02 PM

Had an old lady rip me on a septic tank install but Ill take it in as a 1500 dollar lesson. I took that job as a request from a friend. I knew her late husband and he was a great person. She moved into their summer home when he passed away. She had a problem that the old house septic tank was a pipe that dumped off a hillside. I looked at the job and took it to help the poor old widow woman out. I told her I would shop around and get the best deal on materials. I dont usually do tanks anymore but the other contractors didnt want to do the job as it was in a bad place.

I did the tank and about that time her fruity son came out and talked her into omving the field line layout . SHe wanted it all moved next to the slope as they liked to entertain there. I tried to explain that location would lead to surfacing of the lines. and while I was there she asked me to move a boulders in the flower beds ahd take out some brush. I got done and showed up to get mystuff and she was in SOuth africa with some guy she met on vacation. Eight weeks later she comes back broke and refusing to pay me as the lines leaked like I told her they would.

I even tried to trade for a post hole digger and dish she had sitting in the barn. She refused and minded me that if I put a lean on her place Id be turned in for the install. I took that bad pill but later I got a little satisfaction. Her house burnt and she called with a sad story wanting it cleaned up. I made sure that it got around about the deal I went through and the lot is still piled up.

Now I have a contract and dont do changes on the job.

Warren · January 22, 2012, 05:43:04 PM

All of my sawing except for my first job has been at home. Have never had a contract, but always make sure the customer understands how I am going to charge. Have always got paid. Sometimes a little slow... But always got paid.

Folks I don't know/trust, pay before the lumber leaves the yard. Folks I do know/trust, what ever arrangement we work out. I work away thru the week and saw on the weekends. When I finish up a customer job, I print an invoice and put it in a sandwich baggie like mentioned above. Put the baggie under the banding on the top bundle. Call the customer to let them know their order is ready. If the customer comes and gets their material thru the week, they have their invoice in hand. The last jag I sawed out for a local farmer, the check came in the mail before I was aware that he had picked up his lumber.

Magicman · January 22, 2012, 07:25:50 PM

90%+ of my customers are farmers, and farmers understand how tight money is. If they don't have the money, they don't have logs sawed. When they do, I get a call, saw the logs, and get paid.

taw6243 · January 23, 2012, 01:10:17 AM

THIS AGREEMENT, by and between (Sawyer)_________________________________
and (Customer)__________________________ with the wood-mizer® Sawmill as follows.
1. Sawyer agrees to cut Customer's logs into lumber for $60.00 per hour, plus blades, and fuel used. The Customer will provide 1 or more men to remove all slabs and lumber and keep logs moving onto the mill loader arms as needed. The Sawyer mainly just saws lumber. Customer agrees to dispose of all scraps and wood debris resulting from milling operations. It is understood that log handling and cutting may be hazardous. Safety glasses must be worn when working around the mill. Customer shall be responsible for conduct of helpers and observers and agrees to hold Sawyer and Wood-mizer® products harmless for any injury or damage whatsoever to Customer's helpers or observers arising out of operation of the mill and the handling of logs and lumber. It shall be the Customer's duty and obligation to keep all children, pets, and observers out of the work area.
2. In addition to the above, In the event a saw blade is broken/damaged (1 tooth knocked off) beyond the ability to be sharpened, by foreign materials (nails, rocks, metals, etc) in the Customers logs there is a blade charge of $20.00 per blade for the double hard blade or $66.00 per blade for the satellite blade. If the blade has only become dull from the foreign material then the charge is just for sharpening at $10.00 per double hard blade or $40.00 per blade for the satellite blade. (Stellite blades cut lumber four times as long as doublehard blades) Normal dulling of blades and the decision to change the blade will be determined by the Sawyer and is also charged at the same rates. Payment shall be at the end of each day with payment noted on contract, dated, and initialed by Customer and Sawyer. Note: Sawyer has the right to retain and possess all lumber produced if not paid in full.
3. Customer represents that that he is the owner of the logs or is the legal representative of the owner, that he has the right to saw on this site, and has the legal right to enter into this agreement on the behalf of all interested parties.

Dated this _____ day of ______________ 20____.

Sawyer: _________________________________.

Customer: _______________________________.

Date__________ Start_________ Stop _________ Minutes_____ Initials __________

Date__________ Start_________ Stop _________ Minutes_____ Initials __________

Kansas · January 23, 2012, 05:16:10 AM

I stay away from contracts for a couple of reasons. One has been stated, about scaring customers away. The second one is that that contract is only worth the paper its printed on. That is, if someone doesn't want to pay you, and had no intention in the first place, trying to go after him will likely cost more than its worth. Most custom cutting jobs are smaller ones. Most people are honest and will pay. If you ran into a bigger job, asked to get paid half way through the job (and make that clear up front.) Also if you put in that contract about you not being liable if he gets hurt offbearing, about all you have done is acknowledge that working around the mill is dangerous, and that will make you liable. If a customer doesn't pass the "smell" test, its better to turn them down than try to get a contract signed and enforced.

We run a heavy amount of receivables. A lot of our regular customers and construction companies from out of the area don't have the ability to pay right then. Last year was probably the worst in writing off bad debt, and that was well under 1%. Most of our bad debt comes from when someone drops off logs to have cut and dried. That is kind of low on our priority list, and they may be around awhile. A persons financial situation can change in 6 months. If you are just custom sawing, you shouldn't need to run much of any receivables.

dgdrls · January 23, 2012, 06:58:00 AM

I believe you must have something in print. Even if you use a diner style "Guest Check"
Write down what you will do, the cost, final tally and any extra's if there are any.
If you don't get paid, at least you have the receipt and if needed leverage later on.

I'm also a firm believer in a sound business structure LLc, Insurance and a daily work log.

Best DGDrls