Diesel generator

[ppeterson]

Another question from the confused one. I have so many scenarios going through my head right now, it is hard to keep them straight.

As you are all probably aware of by now, I need to set up a simple, but permanent sawing sight. It will not have power right away because all my money is going into machinery and land.

I have the thought process of buying a diesel powered sawmill and a diesel edger, supported by an edger. Those are limitations, power wise, for additional support equipment.

I have heard many suggestions on forgeting about a diesel powered and going 3 phase, which I would love to do, but I believe it has to wait for awhile. (Mabey)

Would it make sense to have a diesel generator powering the complete sawmill, edger, lights, future log deck, future conveyors, short green chain, or am I off the wall?

If it makes sense, what generator would do the job?
Is it economical?

Or try this.
I am looking at a commercial highway lot, which I would probably buy anyway for the mill, that has 3 phase power 100 feet away servicing a furniture manufacturer.
5 acres for $62,000. (no counter offer made as of yet) Land is very expensive here in northern Wisconsin.

3 phase would cost $5 or 6 grand.

Am I better off to get an electric mill right off the bat?
 
Can you do this without a building?

Before I explore this furthur locally, I ask for your professional opinions.

Best regards,
ppeterson

[slowzuki]

I don't know the pricing the manufacturers assign to the electrics but a 20 hp 3 phase motor can be purchased cheaper than a 40 hp diesel and will cost less to run and maintain.

You can do electric without a building, you will need weather proof panels or a small enclosure for regular panels.  The motors you would use are call totally enclosed fan cooled and can be operated outside in the rain etc.

Up here you have to get special permission to get electrical without a building because the weed growers used to get power into pumps and lights.

I've decided to go electric for now but I'm trying single phase so it isn't much of a problem.

[Ron Wenrich]

I think a lot depends on the size of operation you're going after.  I've run both ways.  If you're running a real small operation or just running part time, the gen set may not pay for itself.  3 phase electric would not be cost effective on those types of operation either.

When we were running on just diesel power, we had three diesels.  One ran the head saw and hydraulics (which ran the edger and blower).  The second one ran the chipper.  A smaller third diesel ran the debarker.  

When we put in a new mill, we put everything on a gen set.  We have 3 phase running right by the property.  When we figured up the cost of connecting, transformers and support, we came up with a substantial savings by generating our own.

We run our lights, decks, chipper, headsaw, edgers (2), blowers and big hydraulics on the gen set.  We still have our debarker on a small diesel, but we think we have the capacity to run that with electric.  We will probably do that this summer.

The down side is that diesel fluctuates in price.  There is also a voltage lag when things start to bog down.  Usually not much of a problem, but can shorten motor life.  We try to rebuild them every couple of years.

The upside is that you can lock in a good price for a long period of time.  We were locked in at less than $1 since last November.  We also don't have to worry about weather conditions.  Everything runs as long as the gen set is running.  We still feel its cost effective.  

If you can afford it, I'd go with the electric right away.  Just make sure you have disconnects on all your equipment, for safety reasons.  You should have a seperate room for your gen set.  We have a problem with dust in the panels and clogging up the radiator if we leave the doors open to the gen set room.

[D._Frederick]

Ron,

It sounds to me that you do not have a generator with enough capacity. Does your diesel that drives the generator have a hydraulic governor to keep the rpm constant? Is the voltage output from the generator dropping under load, maybe the voltage regulator on the generator in the wrong type for your application. If the frequency and voltage are both changing, you have problems.

[sawhead]

If 3 phase is avaliable ,  find out if there is a min. monthly charge on the 3ph service, a lot of elec. co. do have a min. monthly charge for it. If you are not operating on a consistent basis though you might consider the genset, when you shutdown, the powers down ,so is the cost. Electric motors last a long time and very little upkeep. Anytime you run a diesel or gas engine you are working toward the end of that engine, something to consider. My .02 worth

[Ron Wenrich]

The original gen set that we bought came from Canada.  They sold us an ancient Cat engine that came off of a dozer.  We had some huge problems with the governor and went to another unit.

We bought the gen set from the local generator guys.  They are pretty good at what they do, and they say that what we have is what we need.

Usually we get bogged down when something demands a huge amount of electric to keep caught up (the chipper).  If the voltage drops too low for a few seconds, the gen set will kick off.

The guy who engineered everything says that we aren't underpowered.  We still have some capacity.  The guy's pretty sharp.  He used to work for DeBeers and has an extensive mining background.  

I usually leave the mechanical and electrical to someone who knows more than me.  I play guitar, but I don't build them.