What Are You Charging

[tree dude]

Hey guys havent been here in a while just curious what the goin rate is for dimensional sawing thes days dont have to be real specific just curious is all smiley_beatnik

[jdtuttle]

I charge .30 BF.
jim

[Chuck White]

In this area, we charge 15¢/bd ft!

So, you see, the rate for sawing just depends on the area you're sawing in!

[terrifictimbersllc]

In this area, we charge 15¢/bd ft!

So, you see, the rate for sawing just depends on the area you're sawing in!

Chuck, is your rate for mobile milling or to people bring you logs? If mobile then how do you charge for travel and when things just aren't ready and extra work has to be done? Do you have a minimum?   Is this just the state of the economy up there or is there a lot of competition?

[Bibbyman]

This is an often asked question.  But if you may not get an answer that will be useful to you. 

Every sawyer's situation and services is a bit to quite a bit different.  Economy of the area, types of wood sawn, products made, competition from other sawyers, reputation, how you charge (by the hour of by the foot), volume of the job, equipment used, labor provied by the sawyer or customer, on and on.

If you charge too little you're likely not to get much business and won't make enough money to pay for your expenses and time.  If you charge too much, you'll only get troublesome customers that nobody else will saw for.

I hear of people in the nearby big cities charging twice what we charge. We also have Amish mills not far from us that charge about half what we charge.  But we get customers that have had lumber sawn by them and they'd rather pay us the higher rate for better quality.

We're at the point where we don't do much custom sawing - maybe 10% of our total production.  As long as we have commercial products to produce we're just as soon not do any custom sawing.  We've kept doing it as a community service but give it a low priority.   

[Chuck White]

In this area, we charge 15¢/bd ft!

So, you see, the rate for sawing just depends on the area you're sawing in!

Chuck, is your rate for mobile milling or to people bring you logs? If mobile then how do you charge for travel and when things just aren't ready and extra work has to be done? Do you have a minimum?   Is this just the state of the economy up there or is there a lot of competition?

My work is all mobile!
As far as charging for travel, I don't.  I look at it like if I didn't travel, I wouldn't be sawing.
My minimum (unless it's like "right next door") is 1500 board feet or $225.
I haven't traveled over 20 miles from home.
Competition isn't real strong in this area, although there are several portable mills!
If I have to do log handling, stacking, etc. then it's $35.00/hr, which is also my hourly charge for sawing on jobs where there is a lot of extra's.
If I have to move logs, other than rolling them, the customer will have a tractor with a loader for me to use.
I have a lot of repeat customers and gain a few more each year!
I have a pretty good reputation around here and others from what I hear don't!  I have had people tell me that so-and-so was sawing for them and they end up with mostly wavy and/or thick-n-thin!  I also think a lot of my "staying busy" has a lot to do with me sharpening and setting my own blades.  Several of the others will push their blades "beyond dull" and of course they'll get low quality lumber!   So, I stay busy from March/April through Oct/Nov.

[terrifictimbersllc]

This is an often asked question.  But if you may not get an answer that will be useful to you.  

Every sawyer's situation and services is a bit to quite a bit different.  Economy of the area, types of wood sawn, products made, competition from other sawyers, reputation, how you charge (by the hour of by the foot), volume of the job, equipment used, labor provied by the sawyer or customer, on and on.

If you charge too little you're likely not to get much business and won't make enough money to pay for your expenses and time.  If you charge too much, you'll only get troublesome customers that nobody else will saw for.

I hear of people in the nearby big cities charging twice what we charge. We also have Amish mills not far from us that charge about half what we charge.  But we get customers that have had lumber sawn by them and they'd rather pay us the higher rate for better quality.

We're at the point where we don't do much custom sawing - maybe 10% of our total production.  As long as we have commercial products to produce we're just as soon not do any custom sawing.  We've kept doing it as a community service but give it a low priority.  

Thanks and understood.  I'm just trying to understand a situation where wood gets cut for 15cents a bf on a Wood-Mizer.   Also I spend some time in the Adirondacks and am interested in the wood situation there.  May go to Boonville next week for a day.

[Chuck White]

Well said Bibby!

[terrifictimbersllc]

In this area, we charge 15¢/bd ft!

So, you see, the rate for sawing just depends on the area you're sawing in!

Chuck, is your rate for mobile milling or to people bring you logs? If mobile then how do you charge for travel and when things just aren't ready and extra work has to be done? Do you have a minimum?   Is this just the state of the economy up there or is there a lot of competition?

My work is all mobile!
As far as charging for travel, I don't.  I look at it like if I didn't travel, I wouldn't be sawing.
My minimum (unless it's like "right next door") is 1500 board feet or $225.
I haven't traveled over 20 miles from home.
Competition isn't real strong in this area, although there are several portable mills!
If I have to do log handling, stacking, etc. then it's $35.00/hr, which is also my hourly charge for sawing on jobs where there is a lot of extra's.
If I have to move logs, other than rolling them, the customer will have a tractor with a loader for me to use.
I have a lot of repeat customers and gain a few more each year!
I have a pretty good reputation around here and others from what I hear don't!  I have had people tell me that so-and-so was sawing for them and they end up with mostly wavy and/or thick-n-thin!  I also think a lot of my "staying busy" has a lot to do with me sharpening and setting my own blades.  Several of the others will push their blades "beyond dull" and of course they'll get low quality lumber!   So, I stay busy from March/April through Oct/Nov.

Thanks, you have some built-in things here, minimum bf and very local which make a difference and keeping your blade costs lower. I'm not surprised you can keep busy doing good work at this price.   Do you switch to hourly when the logs are less productive like smaller and not real straight? 

[paul case]

$.30 bd ft, or $40/hr on live edge stuff or odd jobs. with a 1 hour minimum.   i do about 50% custom at times but i am not much of a production mill.i may saw 800 bdft a day at times and sometimes i will saw only 200 bd ft /week. i do market some of my own lumber in custom orders and the small stuff for pallet materials. i am stationary. pc

[DR Buck]

I charge as much as I can get!  ;D     My advertised rates are 35¢ a board foot with a minimum charge of $350 if I go portable.   If it is something that requires an hourly rate, which isn't my normal way of charging, I charge $65 per hour.    Free travel and setup up to 50 miles.  Then it's $1 per mile one-way.   On site the customer off-bares and stacks.     


Same fees if I mill at home, only no minimum charge and I do all the handling.

[Magicman]

I subscribe to our state's market bulletin.  Advertised rates in Mississippi are .16 to .30 per bf.  My price is about mid range.  Cedar is sawed by the hour, with the rate determined by dividing a 1500bf day by 8.

The quality of your product should determine it's worth.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Chuck and Magicman, is the customer helping you carry boards and scrap from the mill at your bf rate? dennis

[Qweaver]

I'm charging $45 an hour plus a small fee to cover my costs for the logs if I'm providing them.  I add a resharp fee of $9 for all of blades that I dull and tax.  I'll also saw customer logs by the BdFt but I try to get them to go by the hour.  I'm charging .45 per BdFt to just saw.  I read a post here yesterday when a Canadian sawer was charging over twice as much as me.  He would never get any business here at those rates. The customer could go to Lowes and buy dried and planed lumber for those prices.  I charge travel & setup time at $30 an hour.   I've had more jobs come in since doing the county fair show than I've done all year.  I guess it helped get me noticed.

[Magicman]

Magicman, is the customer helping you carry boards and scrap from the mill at your bf rate? dennis

Yes, at least one off bearer is always required.  I don't mind stepping off and helping with one end of heavy slabs when necessary.  I usually don't have to help with lumber handling.

[bugdust]

Just finished sawing 1,400 bdft of 1/2" hemlock and charged price as would for 1" @ .35 bdft. I to asked about pricing and found it basically depended on locality. Since most of my sawing is at the mill site I find the price/bdft works best for me. Of course I always advise a $25 dollar charge for damaged blades caused by foreign material in their log. Sawing on site is charged at $45/hr, plus moving fee of $25 within a 40 mile range. Then there's the "good old boy" price for friends, and family is free. Just call me a sucker.

[Magicman]

It's OK, but you need to be careful charging different prices for different customers.  If one finds out that he was charged more, then what ???

[Chuck White]

Chuck and Magicman, is the customer helping you carry boards and scrap from the mill at your bf rate? dennis

The customer either is the off-bearer or he provides one or he pays one that I find.
Like Magicman, I usually help with heavy slabs, but I usually cut them thin enough so the off-bearer can easily handle them.
The off-bearer also stacks the lumber.

You might also want to consider Magicman's suggestion on different prices for different people.
Although most people would understand charging family a different rate.
I charge my family members the same as other customers, except Mom and my S-Father, they would be FREE.  Heck, most of my family members have more money than I do!  ;) ;D

[tree dude]

thanks for all the info well apreciated.the prices everyone quoted me are a lot cheaper than i expected.guess i will have to do some rethinkin in this area
smiley_beatnik

[weisyboy]

gday

obviously im in Australia so this isnt much help to you.

but im gunna say it anyway.

i run a swing mill.

i charge $200/m3 of log, not of sawn product. out of 1m3 of log i get between .4 and .8 cube of boards. normally around .5m3. so it works out to about - 90c/bf.
and we get threw between 3 and 6 m3 of log in a day. - 666 bf to 1300bf of brads a day.

i charge $50 travel if its more than 20 mins drive, $100 if its more than 1 hours drive.

when doing slabs i charge $120/hour. i also charge this if i have to do a lot of moving of logs.

[Magicman]

the prices everyone quoted me are a lot cheaper than i expected 

One thing to remember on pricing.  How much does store bought kiln dried lumber cost?

Presently, framing lumber is going for about .55bf.  Say that you charge .25bf to saw.  That leaves .30bf for the cost of the log, cutting, bucking, skidding, and staging.  If you overprice yourself, the customer is better off just selling his logs and going to the Building Supply for lumber.

Last year, while the market was really in the dumper,  a customer approached me about sawing 20' 2X6" for his new home.   I asked about his logs and he told me that he would have to buy them.  A quick call and quote from the Building Supply said $6.55 each.  My advice was for him to buy his lumber.

The majority of my sawing is dimensional framing lumber from beetle killed SYP.  These logs have no market value and the landowner is trying to recover some value from them.  In that case, cutting, skidding, etc. is done in their spare time and the lumber cost is my saw fee.

[weisyboy]

with the price of hardwood in Australia it costs less than a half normally less than a third of the cost of buying the same timber at a sawmill, or a quarter of the cost of buying it from a timber yard.

[Peter Drouin]

I get .25 for soft  .35 for hard to 16'/ 18' and 20' is .45 a b.f. no extra for going to work or broke blades and I work alone and cut 2000 to 2800' a day with LT 40 super . I all so sell lumber 1" and 2" at .60 a b.f. and in my shop with 43' door I cut 40' beams at 4.00 a b.f+ have fun pete'

[Magicman]

Pete, Welcome to The Forestry Forum.  Tell us a bit more about yourself and interests.  Pictures?

[tree dude]

ill do some checkin on the bf. price at the local lumber yard that seems like a good idea,got to make it where the customer feels like they are getting a bargain, i guess im just spoiled i own a local tree service so i get a lot of my wood for free .just tryin to put some extra coin in my pocketand mayby get a few more customers.if ican sell the job on takin there tree down and then sell them back there wood hey guess what im money ahead and the tree they just had removed just milled out fo a new deck in there back yard.Took down two green pines today both 50 foot tall 1 was 20 inch diam.1was 16in diam.took to house.gona take down a 60 ft ceder tomorow aprox 30in at breast height.gona make some nice wood. smiley_beatnik

[Magicman]

gona take down a 60 ft ceder tomorow aprox 30in at breast height.gona make some nice wood.

If that 30" cedar is a yard tree it has a high probability of having junk metal in it.   :-\

That would be a good candidate for jump butting and discarding the bottom 6'-8'.  Or it could be split into fence rails.

[paul case]

tree dude,
i tried pricing board ft prices at the lumber yard and it was quite confusing. the 1'' lumber is always higher and2x4s almost always seem to be cheaper. the last time i checked the lowes prices here were from $.81 for 1x10s and and $.48 for 2x4s all pine boards. i cut a lot of trailer decking and corral lumber and such from oak and i charge $.60 bdft for it.  pc

[woodmills1]

I charge 70 an hr with one free blade, hit metal we talk.  I lower to 0 per hr for good big or repeat customers.  I saw only at home with the 70 and chage for some log pick ups but do for free if I can get them on a dead head from the mill.  did I say I love this *&^%

[BBTom]

Disclaimer: Most of what I saw is 4/4 hardwood.  maybe 3% is Softwood and most of that is 4/4 boards.

I used to charge .30/ bf for both here and there sawing, but have learned that it doesn't pay to travel for a bunch of 8 - 10" diameter logs at that rate.
 
I now charge $60/ hr for all travel jobs,  the customer who has nice logs all lined up and lots of help to offbear will get a great deal.  ( have sawn better than 3000 bf/ 8 hr day ) and the customer who has no help and makes me wait for logs to get moved to the mill will pay more per bf.  I do have a $200 minimum and a $1/mile delivery/setup fee ($25 minimum).

I do good work and have traveled from the shores of lake Erie to south of the Ohio river on jobs the customer insisted I do. I always try to find a local sawyer for long distance jobs, but sometimes the customer just wants someone who is a full time sawyer to do the job.
 
When the customer brings me the logs it is a flat rate of .30/bdft for sawing, $25/blade for hitting something in their log, .30/bdft for kiln drying, $1/sqft for turning their kiln dried lumber into t&g flooring.

Bottom line:  Set your price so that you can make a profit.  Be honest with your customer.  I have told many customers that 2 x 4 studs are cheaper at the box store, but if they want 2 x 8's 12' long and up, I can save them money.  Do yourself proud.  by that I mean make certain that you are proud of EVERY job you do,  cut good square straight lumber and try to help your customer get the best out of his logs.   This business is hard work, some customers will never be satisfied, most will be overjoyed, you will be tired at the end of each day.

[Tim/South]

I am set up under a roof and do not like to travel. I also have an edger under the same roof. I want to be able to wash dirty logs.

I charge 25 cents to flat saw.
I sell dimensional pine for 45 cents. (Last year you could buy a 2 x 6 at the store for 35 cents).
I sell flat sawn oak for 60 cents.
I sell QS oak for 75 cents to 1.00 depending on the species and quality.

I have no idea what to charge to QS for the public.

I like to make lumber. My mill has become more of a tool I use for myself/farm. I get calls every week from someone wanting something milled.
I listen to the customer and tell them what to expect, including price. I do not want them to experience "price shock"when they come pick up their lumber.
You would be surprised at how many people think they can have 15 logs milled for $30.

I could advertise and try to price compete with the guy down the road and stay fairly busy. I am not going to wear my mill out for 17 cents per BF.

[paul case]

sounds like you are having a lot of fun too tim.  what kind of equipment are you runnin?pc

[Tim/South]

sounds like you are having a lot of fun too tim.  what kind of equipment are you runnin?pc

I do rather enjoy sawing lumber.
I have a WM LT 40 and a Morgan edger.
We use a BobCat 863 to handle most of the logs and lumber.

[woodman]

    For the last two years I have charged five hundred for a eight hour day in there yard and thirty dollars a if I hit something in the log. I only cut in the spring and the fall winter is to cold and summer is to hot. It's good to be retired  :D

[captain_crunch]

All you have to do here in Western Oregon is tell em they are Organic boards with No pestisides or Fert and charge twice what they are worth : : They will buy them no questions asked 8) 8) 8)

[Okrafarmer]

All you have to do here in Western Oregon is tell em they are Organic boards with No pestisides or Fert and charge twice what they are worth : : They will buy them no questions asked 8) 8) 8)

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[Tim/South]

All you have to do here in Western Oregon is tell em they are Organic boards with No pestisides or Fert and charge twice what they are worth : : They will buy them no questions asked 8) 8) 8)

We all may as well jump on the "Going Green" band wagon.
I know a person that thought it was so neat that we "rescued" downed trees from a tornado rather than going out and cutting living trees down.
Wish I had the heart to bump up the sticker price.

[bandmiller2]

I get .50/bf for softwoods and .90/bf for hardwood.The price varies a little depending on how big the order is.Mostly pine for sheds/barnes and hardwood for trailer decking.We supply the logs and I take responsibility for whats in them for hardwear.I charge by their cut list and usally give them considerable overage.Frank C.

[Okrafarmer]

I get .50/bf for softwoods and .90/bf for hardwood.The price varies a little depending on how big the order is.Mostly pine for sheds/barnes and hardwood for trailer decking.We supply the logs and I take responsibility for whats in them for hardwear.I charge by their cut list and usally give them considerable overage.Frank C.

So that takes into account the price you pay for logs? Or do you get them for free, or harvest them yourself?

[bandmiller2]

Okra,my bandmill is set up at a tree service yard,their money is made removing the trees so their more or less a byproduct.I split what we make selling the lumber, not exact, many of my jobs I keep it all, I cut for the owner what he needs and if he has a job he keeps it.Mill is in a clean,heated,well lighted building my only expence outher than my time is bands,three phase power supplied and all the log moving equip I would ever need.Strange as it seems in better times we shipped alot of logs to Maine and even a few veneer logs.Frank C.

[ladylake]

 Pretty close to Frank here, .50 for softwood   .75 to .90 for lower quality hardwood, up to 3.50 for nice QS WO.  Most logs I have to buy, WO .30 delivered some at .15 to.20 that I pick up.   Steve

[Okrafarmer]

Okra,my bandmill is set up at a tree service yard,their money is made removing the trees so their more or less a byproduct.I split what we make selling the lumber, not exact, many of my jobs I keep it all, I cut for the owner what he needs and if he has a job he keeps it.Mill is in a clean,heated,well lighted building my only expence outher than my time is bands,three phase power supplied and all the log moving equip I would ever need.Strange as it seems in better times we shipped alot of logs to Maine and even a few veneer logs.Frank C.

Sounds like you've got it pretty good there, Frank! I haven't even dreamed that nice yet!

[Chuck White]

Let me make sure that I'm on the right page!

Frank, You're talking about "providing the logs and sawing them", is that correct for the prices you quoted?

My responses were for sawing logs that the customer owns!  Custom sawing, mobile!

[bandmiller2]

Chuck,you got it right,those prices are for outright purchase of the lumber at the mill. Frank C.

[Magicman]

We all have really developed our own markets based on circumstances and the area that we live/saw in.  What works for one, may be completely unworkable for another.  Yes, you can mirror some individuals and their business, but markets and opportunities can be very different in different locales.  Sawing and lumber prices/cost apparently differs also.

[Okrafarmer]

Chuck,you got it right,those prices are for outright purchase of the lumber at the mill. Frank C.

In which case I hope you are not charging enough, because I sure hope to be able to sell most of my hardwood lumber for at least $1/bf! Maybe that's unrealistic though. Esp. in this economy. Question, though-- are those prices for green lumber or dried?

[Okrafarmer]

We all have really developed our own markets based on circumstances and the area that we live/saw in.  What works for one, may be completely unworkable for another.  Yes, you can mirror some individuals and their business, but markets and opportunities can be very different in different locales.  Sawing and lumber prices/cost apparently differs also.

You're so right!

[Banjo picker]

What several of us down South are facing is the fact that folks are use to paying very little for sawing.  I price a sawing job by the logs they got...If the logs are suckie and they want their "special logs" cut charge by the hour...If some one wants lumber cut out of 20" pine give them a good rate....If they want to compare notes let them do it...all logs are not the same....The only way to give the same rate for everybody  and be fair is charge by the hour...And in this heat I don't think I could earn my money on an all day afair...Tim

[Okrafarmer]

What several of us down South are facing is the fact that folks are use to paying very little for sawing.  I price a sawing job by the logs they got...If the logs are suckie and they want their "special logs" cut charge by the hour...If some one wants lumber cut out of 20" pine give them a good rate....If they want to compare notes let them do it...all logs are not the same....The only way to give the same rate for everybody  and be fair is charge by the hour...And in this heat I don't think I could earn my money on an all day afair...Tim

Yes, if I go that route, I'll have to reduce my rate for days like these!

[Tim/South]

What several of us down South are facing is the fact that folks are use to paying very little for sawing.  ...Tim

This is so true.
They remember what their grandfather paid back in the day when there was a circle mill in every community.
The local circle mill when I was growing up, had a lifetime contract with the coal mines. This gave him access to probably a thousand acres of their timber property.
He never paid for a tree and sold lumber dirt cheap to generate spending money.
His bread and butter came from the mine contract.

[bandmiller2]

Okra,yea I'am not charging enough,basically 10 year ago prices.Most customers are repete and many have helped me out over the years.Your not out of line at a buck a board foot for oak.Frank C.

[Okrafarmer]

Okra,yea I'am not charging enough,basically 10 year ago prices.Most customers are repete and many have helped me out over the years.Your not out of line at a buck a board foot for oak.Frank C.

Good to know. You have to remember I'm jumping into this new, and those doing it a while need to remember about inflation!

[DR Buck]

If you have the right market for 'specialty' hardwood you can make a lot more money.   Although, as a part timer,  my sales are spaced out over time.   I also sell most of my kiln dried lumber at a fixed price per board based roughly on a bf rate that I decide I'd like to get.  I often put price stickers on each board.  This way there is no discussion if its 3.5 or 4 bf.  it doesn't matter its a fixed price.  Using this method I've sold "historic" white oak for  excess of $10 bf, clear 5/4 18" wide cherry $15 bf and 5/4 Pear 7" to 10" wide for $20 bf.   I can also get $3 bf for KD 4/4 cedar and up-wards of $5 bf for red oak without much effort.

I've also sold unique grain walnut with embedded nuts grown into the crotch for over $30 bf.  ;D

If you do value added additions such a planning and jointing edges the price goes up even more.  Then you can get into linear foot pricing.   


Oh, I get almost all of my logs free.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D   

[redbeard]

Has anyone had luck selling hardwoods by the pound? I'am mostly thinking wood turning blanks and some slabs of burl. Maple,madrone,Hazelnut. of course green would be to sawyers benefit but some turners prefer green.

[Okrafarmer]

Dr Buck, I like your style! I shall try to emulate you, at least as much as I can.