Let's talk grapples!

[Tony Sawmill]

Hi all,
I've got a new tractor coming next week and with that, having the 3rd function installed for a grapple.  I am debating which style grapple to get and thought I'd post here for feedback and collective years of experience for insights. 
The 2 main style options I see are shown in the attached picture.  One is the clamshell style where bottom part of the grapple is more like a root rake and then top grapple piece on it.  Second style is also in the picture and is more like an open skid steer bucket that is flat on the bottom part and then the top grapple above it.  I go back and forth which style would suit me best.  I am curious which style grapple you have for your tractor and sawmill and what you have liked and not liked about it.

Clamshell pros and cons:  PROS: you can pick up just about any size log and clamp down tight on it.  You can push brush around maybe better than the bucket style.  CONS: You can't open the grapple and use it to stack milled lumber in it kind of like on pallet forks.  Any log you pick up you will just to grab it in the grapple vs just letting gravity keep it in a bucket. 

"Bucket style" grapple:  PROS: can stack lumber in the bucket part and move lumber around without having to switch back to pallet forks (though forks can hold more lumber obviously).  Can pick up multiple logs easier due to the lower bucket portion of the grapple.  CONS: Maybe not as easy to push brush around.  Top grapple doesn't pinch fully closed to the lower bucket so there is an opening that is always there = smaller logs will bounce around. 

For context as to my planned use:
I've got a Woodland Mills HM126.  I will probably upgrade that in the next year or so but it's a good little mill for the price and just milling for projects on my homeplace.  I don't have a grapple on my current tractor but do have pallet forks.  LOVE the pallet forks!  They are extremely handy for moving logs onto the mill deck, moving the milled lumber, etc.  I currently use the forks to load logs on the mill deck and then I park the tractor next to the deck and stack the newly milled lumber onto the pallet forks and then drive the lumber over to where I am stacking it.  But they can be a bit aggravating with logs rolling off, etc.  As well, I've got 90 acres here I maintain with roads, etc. I have some brush piles I want to move from clearing out some privet thickets, and need to clear that area out as I want to plant it for food plots, etc.  So a grapple seems would be very handy. 
I am leaning towards the bucket style grapple though the fact the top part of the grapple doesn't close down 100% to the lower part causes me concern if logs will still bounce around.  I am thinking with smaller logs I can just keep them at the end of the bucket and clamp the top down on it. That keeps the log further out on the bucket which reduces the lift capacity but if they are smaller like that it won't much matter as tractor has around 2600 lb lift capacity.   The bucket style grapple I am looking at has about 24" clear opening on the bottom of the bucket.  That would be enough space where I could still use it to stack milled lumber onto it to go stack just like I do my pallet forks currently.  If I don't have that style I am afraid I'll be having to switch back and forth between the forks and the grapple over and over and that would be a pain.

Another option could be getting the clamshell style grapple but then also get the pallet forks I've seen with a grapple on that as well.  Many a time I wish I had a grapple on my pallet forks and for around the mill that would really work fabulous but I do have the 90 acres I maintain so I still will be wanting a grapple of some type for downed trees, brush, etc.




 

[scsmith42]

I have found the bucket style to be more useful around the mill.  I call mine a "grapple rake" bucket.  In addition to the reasons that you listed, with the bucket portion flat to the ground you can zig-zag the skidsteer from side to side as you drive it and smooth out rough ground.  I find this useful where the ground gets torn up around the slab pile and also log infeed deck area.

I also need to brag a bit about Loflin Manufacturing - the manufacturer of my grapple rake.

http://www.loflinfabrication.com/rootgrapple/

Back around 2010 I needed to rebuild the hydraulic cylinders on my Loflin root grapple.  This was a used grapple that I had bought a few months prior from a guy down in Florida.  I contacted Loflin, and purchased two cylinder rebuild kits.  When I took it apart (there are shields over the cylinders), I discovered that the cylinders were welded together - not very easily rebuildable.

I placed a phone call to the Loflin parts dept, explained my predicament, and asked if the cylinders were rebuildable and what the cost of replacement cylinders would be.

The parts rep explained that some early versions of the grapple had been supplied with welded cylinders, and when customers complained that they could not rebuild them the company decided to replace the cylinders - for free.  He told me that if I shipped him my existing cylinders (on my dime), they would send out brand new replacements on their dime. I thanked him, but explained that I was not the original purchaser of the grapple.  He replied that it did not matter - as a company policy they stood behind their product.

I pulled my cylinders off Wednesday A.M. and shipped them the same day, Friday afternoon two brand new cylinders showed up on my front porch.

Now that's great customer service.  They did not have to do this - I had asked about purchasing replacements, and for a company do volunteer this - especially in this economy - says a lot about them.

I've since bought some pallet forks from them, and they are my #1 go-to company for any skid-steer related attachments.  Customer service like that is rare these days!

[Tony Sawmill]

That's a great point about the flatter/bucket style grapple being used to zig zag to flatten out the ground! I didn't think about that but that would definitely be handy.  Heck I use my pallet forks that way already hahaha.  That is great about the manufacturer you mentioned.  Looked at their website- they look well built.

[beenthere]

You didn't say what tractor, but I added "The Thumb" to my forks as I didn't think I wanted to add so much weight as a grapple. Works great for logs, rocks, and especially for brush/tops. Stands up out of the way when open for pallets of firewood on the forks. Also, pull three pins and carry it off when not needed.



 

[DocGP]

First off, I will never be without a grapple again.  They are too handy once you get used to them.  I have the clamshell type which I find very handy around the farm and find it great to transport logs, clean up tops, build brush piles, pushing up lanes in mild brush, and such.  I do think around the mill, the bucket type with short forks would be more handy.  I plan on picking one up also.  I think it is a bit redundant, but I can't toss cut offs, or stack fresh boards on the clamshell type if I need to.  Sometimes I have a second tractor with forks, but that is not always available. 

Doc

[rusticretreater]

I thought about these same things before opting for a full grapple from Everything Attachments.  I'm thinking with 90 acres that you will benefit from this as well.

I have 8 wooded acres of good and bad trees.  I have bent and leaning trees.  I have to get into brush.  Two years ago a storm came through and took down 12 trees.  Grapple to the rescue.  When cutting some of this stuff I can make it much safer by grabbing these trees to stabilize them while I cut.  Especially the leaners. It also holds logs so the blade of the chainsaw doesn't get pinched. I am also able to root rake out the vines and those *DanG sticker bushes too.

Yes, I am in the quandary of having to decide when to switch between the grapple and the bucket/forks and plan operations around that.  I am pretty klutzy when it comes to using the tractor and the easy grab of the grapple helps me alot.  Also, I find that it is easier on the mill to set the log on it using the grapple rather than rolling it off of the forks. I have a lot of 14-20 inch diameter logs.

The forks do provide the benefit of moving the lumber.  So which is more important?  The forks/grapple setup will work well in the lumber yard but is not suitable for everything in the brush. I opted to build a trailer to stack the lumber on and pull it to the drying area and went with the full grapple.

[YellowHammer]

I am not a big fan of a grapple around a sawmill because I can't move pallets of lumber (every board that comes off the mill needs to go on a pallet, skid, or pack) so since a grapple can't move pallets or units of lumber, it's pretty much useless to me at the mill unless you have a forklift or other unit with pallet forks.  Load a half dozen so logs on the mill, then one pallet of lumber needs to be moved, and repeat.  Again and again, year after year.  Grapples are heavy, and reduce your loader carrying capacity, and they will allow you to pick up heavy logs off center that pushes your center of gravity to the side and will stand you up on one front tire.  I have a sawdust bin that fill up and needs to be moved with forks, I have logs that need to be moved (the mega mills here all use Deere loaders with forks for moving logs) and unloading trailers of logs is better for me with forks because I can hit their gaps better. 

On the other hand, there is nothing that beats moving brush, clearing debris off trails, and using the "ground bar" on the bottom of a grapple to sift and break roots and clean up a log yard.

I have my forks on the loader 90% of the time, or more.  However, trying to clean up brush with forks is a waste of time compared to a good grapple.  I like the split front ones that close independently. 

[Magicman]

I just finished sawing a fairly large Cypress job.  The customer started with the grapple on the skidsteer but changed it to the pallet forks after the first log.  The log handling was fine but not so much with the slab, timbers, and lumber handling.

Each have their advantages.

[customsawyer]

I keep a grapple on my tractor as I use it to unload trailers with sides. I prefer the grapple with the curve on the bottom teeth. I use the bar between the teeth to do any ground leveling that is needed or the box blade on the back. Around the mill I use forks for everything. 

[moodnacreek]

If you can see the forks and have enough tilt back the grapple just gets in the way of your vision and gets caught on things and is a 3rd valve to operate.  Talking yard work not brush or scrap clean up. We had a grapple here on a skid steer and tired of it quickly. Only used it to do clean ups.  A single 'thumb' in the middle, removable, would be my choice.

[DanL]

I took a slightly different approach. I have a 65 HP John Deere 4 WD with front bucket. I wanted a grapple and studied on it for a while. Then I found a Titan "Log grapple" on sale with free shipping. I thought that I would try it. Man this thing was fantastic! I can pick up brush, push brush and logs, gently place a log on the sawmill, etc.,etc.

I already have a separate fork lift attachment for my front end loader [drop off the bucket and hook up the fork lift]. I then acquired the grapple attachment that mounts to my forklift attachment. Now this duo of attachments is the Cats Meow! One can pick up and haul stacks of lumber, bushes and debris and many other around the mill and woods chores.

I had need to use the log grapple to clear out an old garden filled with 2-4" diameter saplings and other brush and weeds. I took an old grader blade and bolted it between the two bottom arms of the log grapple so that the top hydraulic finger would come down and meet it like an index finger and thumb on your hand. It was a half acre old garden slap full of unwanted woody trees and shrubbery. In 1 hour I cleaned up that garden by plucking out the saplings with my Grapple finger and digging up any thing else with the 24" grader blade bolted on the bottom. I piled the debris and saplings and then grabbed large bunches of them with the grapple and removed them from the garden.

I cannot live without these grapples now.
Dan

[CCCLLC]

I also have purchased a Titan log  grapple for my JD. Love it. Perfect  width for unloading home owner trailers with sides . Brush cleanup is also possible.  Thumb add on to the pallet forks may be my next purchase.
Titan again.

[KenMac]

Well here's my $0.02 on the grapple subject: It really depends on what you'll be doing with the grapple. I bought a used flat bottom type grapple first and quickly found that I couldn't dump brush on a pile easily. I didn't have a mill then, so carrying lumber wasn't considered. I sold that grapple and bought the curved tine type from Everything Attachments and it hardly ever comes off my tractor. I move logs and pile brush with it. To move lumber I put pallet forks on.  I'll never own the flat tine type again, but I would like to have two clamps rather than just one, as mine is now. I've considered cutting the center tube and separating the two sides.

[OlJarhead]

I love my root rake grapple and wouldn't change the style because I have a bucket and a set of pallet forks.  I like different equipment made for specific uses as they do better than something made for multiple uses typically and with skid steer type quick connect on the loader I can change each easily.

My only advise is spend the extra money, if possible, to get the GOOD and heavy grapple if you plan to root rake with it as the lighter ones tend to bend easily -- If I only picked up logs my lighter LS Grapple is great and gives me more lifting power (because it's lighter) but when I root rake with it I tend to bend tines.

You can see it here: Find Out if this Tractor Grapple Is Worth the Price Tag - Tractor Talk #tractor #grapple - YouTube

[Nebraska]

It sort of depends on the scope of your milling.  If you are blessed with enough time to mill multiple logs and move an actual pallet full of lumber ..... disclaimer...(not a and very not likely to be a commercial mill, strictly a hobby here) yes pallet forks make sense at the mill.  Except for handling logs in a pile especially curvy, lumpy, crotchety logs that are the norm to find in farm country.  Especially the firewood variety my tractor has a couple scars years ago to show from my pallet fork and pile booboo's. I had pallet forks long before I had a sawmill. My opinion is some sort of hydraulic grapple is safer. I am blessed to have more than one tractor and if I am milling the smaller one has the forks for boards and such  on and the bigger one wears the grapple and they are both reasonably close to the mill.

[mike dee]

I had a "HD" clamshell style root rake with a single lid. After 10+ years of repairs and frustrations I fabbed up a light weight bucket style twin lid grapple using AR400 steel and sold the clam-shell. I wish I did it sooner. I tried posting some pics but it says "Gallery is offline"

Pros of bucket style twin lid:
* easier, better, and more secure grab of odd shaped logs and rocks
* better at grabbing brush and roots
* better at grabbing bunches of logs
* stronger design than single lid
* get bigger and more secure picks

Cons:
* heavier design than single lid

My tips - don't buy ANY grapple made of mild steel. 1/4" AR400 will be lighter and stronger than 1/2" mild steel tines. Buy the lightest grapple you can. Make sure the structure is fully gusseted and fully welded. Make sure all pins are grease-able.  If you see quick pins ie. hair pins securing grapple pins don't walk -  run away!

My experience with the clam shell is it that it may have a bigger grab opening but can't hang on to anything very well. I couldn't hold onto 1 ton armour stones or odd shaped logs (i.e. large hard maple big branch knots) with the clam shell but have no problems with the twin lid bucket style.

The one point I disagree with OlJarhead is getting a heavier grapple means your limited lift capacity tractor will have less lifting capacity for what you want to move because you are moving dead weight.  If you want to lift a 100lb bag do you strap a 20lb dead weight on it first?

You want a STRONG built grapple not a HEAVY one. You get strength from better design and better materials. More isn't always more better.

[SawyerTed]

Been wanting a grapple for a while.  I'm getting  an education!

[terrifictimbersllc]

Y'all starting to spend my money, again.  : :

[rusticretreater]

The one point I disagree with OlJarhead is getting a heavier grapple means your limited lift capacity tractor will have less lifting capacity for what you want to move because you are moving dead weight.

I have a smaller tractor and struggle with larger logs.  I have found that the pistons on the grapple are stronger than the ones on my FEL.  So I sometimes turn the grapple all the way forward, grab a log and do the lift with the grapple pistons, like a weightlifter will do when bringing the barbell to shoulder height.  Another plus is that the weight stays low which is also desirable when moving the heavy stuff.

Still, you must stay within the structural limits of the FEL(which is different than lifting capacity).  I feel the grapple pistons mostly overcome the issue of grapple weight reducing carrying capacity.

Note: grapple pistons are actually the pistons on the end of the FEL that pivot the bucket or grapple. Not the ones that open and close the grapple itself.

[YellowHammer]

Rustic, I think you are describing the same thing I do with a max capacity grapple load. 

If you are carrying a max load with a grapple, and want to keep all four wheels of the tractor on the ground, pivot the grapple down and in as close as you can to the front axles, with the load just above the ground.  Basically a limp wrist position.  This means the load is even closer to the tractor then with the grapple in normal low horizontal ground position and if the tractor starts to tip, opening the jaws lets the load fall instantly and vertically, straight out of the jaws.  With a max load in a normal carrying position, you can't eject the load quickly.  You'll either have to pivot the jaws down and let the load roll out or drop the loader to the ground.  All that take precious half seconds, vs hit the button on the joystick and the load drops instantly. 

If the jaws can't hold the load in the upside down hanging straight down position, then the load is too big.  Carrying a max load like this put it even closer than the pin position so increases CG and loader capacity without needing to max out the curl hydraulics.   

[rusticretreater]

Yep. The curl to raise the log is to clear the ground when its uneven.  Otherwise, the carry is done as you described.

[NE Woodburner]

For milling, I can see the benefit of forks. I don't have a mill yet but I do have forks and a grapple. My grapple is a stump bucket grapple. It's not ideal for logs but it works pretty well. I have a lot of rocks and it does a good job popping out rocks and you can carry them to a wall or dump site. I needed wanted a grapple that could do both reasonably well without having to buy two grapples. I also use it to pick up heavy rounds to load on a trailer or load onto my wood splitter if they are too big to lift by hand.

One of the best features is being able to lift a log to cut to stove length at waist height. Saves your back, is much quicker and no risk of hitting the ground with your saw or having to roll the log to complete the cut.

[beenthere]

Right NE, but there is a risk of hitting the grapple with the saw chain teeth. Don't ask me how I know....   Worse than hitting the ground.  ;) :D

[newoodguy78]

Considering the cost of the clamshell vs the bucket grapple is something to consider as well.

You mentioned handling lumber, straight forks or the thumb option that gets completely out of the way will be the best for that. If the clamshell is cheaper maybe getting a set of forks as well would put you at the same cost as the bucket style?

Maybe I missed it but what size tractor are you getting? The bucket style hanging that far out and having that much more steel will cut down on your lift capacity.

FWIW my neighbor has a clamshell type on a newer JD 45ish hp tractor with the third function on the loader joystick and it is incredibly handy for handling firewood size logs and also for moving brush. After running several different styles having the grapple close tighter than you would think it needs to is a very nice feature especially when it comes to logs.

[Tony Sawmill]

Hi all- thanks so much for many and thoughtful insights and replies.  It's truly helpful!
Several have asked about my tractor and what I'm getting.  I have had a 2020 kubota 3301 for last year+ (33hp). It's a remarkable little tractor for just being 33hp with unweighted tires.  I just about exclusively use my pallet forks on that tractor. 
I am buying as a replacement a TYM 474 which is 48 hp and getting tires weighted.  It will be a huge improvement moving logs around the mill and good for maintaining my pasture, roads, and woods.  I've got 13 acres of hilly pasture and balance in mixed woods and big hardwoods.  Some of my roads are a little narrow here and there so I think the 474 will provide the mobility I want with better lift capacity and power my wonderful little kubota doesn't offer due to its small size.

As I have thought about it I think I am going to get the bucket style grapple with 2 separate top pieces and 2 cylinders for now. I am quite sure I will continue to stack lumber from my hobby sawmill right off the mill onto the tractor before I sticker it.  I think if I get the clamshell I will be taking it on and off over and over.  So I think I will give the bucket style a shot here first as I can still stack some lumber on it and move logs. If I don't like it I can switch to a clamshell and then maybe just get one of the bolt on grapple attachments for my pallet forks as I could see that being an excellent addition! 
I'll report back after a while with the bucket style once I get some time on it. Thanks again for everyone taking the time to reply.