D8 skidder + winch

[ollyjg]

Hi guys,
Ive got a bit of skid work to do. Rather than buying another machine I was looking for a winch to fit our D8H tractor. I gather the D8s originally came out with a Hyster D89B/C winch?

A couple of queries I had after searching the forums for a bit of info;
1) some winches aren't great for skidding - they don't 'free spool', or spool easily when pulling the cable out by hand. What are your thoughts on the hysters, the D89C in particular.  
2) Does the PTO on the D8H (46A series) drive direct from the engine? or through the torque converter? Wondering how much control I will have regulating the winch speed.
3) What cable size should I be running?
4) The tractor has an open cab. Wondering how safe it will be for the operator sitting a few metres away from the winch drum

[Southside]

Welcome to the Forum.  Can't help with most of your question, except for the last one.  You never, never, want to run an open cab in a forestry application.  For sure you want a FOPS (Falling Object Protection System) so nothing falling out of the sky strikes the operator, and the sides and front need heavy impact and puncture resistance from logs that will stand up and smack the operator when the edge of the pads hits it just right, or if the winch didn't disengage in time.  You want something to stop that log before it comes into the cab and crushes the operator.  

[ollyjg]

Hi Southside,
Thanks for the welcome! Have enjoyed pouring over your forum these last few months. Fantastic place.
Appreciate your comments. Understood! The cab is 'open', but does offer a little bit of protection. I was considering welding up a bit of cage for the rear 'window', but still worried about cable wrapping around from the side / front. Gives me the heebie jeebies. Will look at adding some side protection too. Thank you! Some pics of the tractor from the front / rear, below.

I found some manuals for various winches online, for those looking Allied Winch Service Manuals

Short Vid of a D7 + arch. Not a very clean operation, but enjoyed watching the older tractor at work  
YouTube
Cheers!  



  

[Walnut Beast]

How many hrs on your D8

[Riwaka]

Sometimes it was possible to lease/ rent/ hire skidders (or logging spec track swing machines to shovel log with) in some places if you know the right people and have the right tree work/ machine operator qualifications.

You may wish to check with a qualified mechanical engineer what is necessary for a machine's operator position (if no full cab) to meet the ops, fops, rops etc rules for your area.

[ollyjg]

How many hrs on your D8

Hi WB. Had a new hour meter installed ~3500hrs ago. Guessing it's done a few.

Had a bit of work done before I bought it (in the last 1200 hrs)  - torque converter rebuild / transmission rebuild / new heads / new combustion chambers, valves, water pump, oil coolers / some new plates, clutch pack / new track chains, rollers, undercarriage and sprocket segments.
So far so good, fingers crossed. Was a bit of a punt..  ;D

[ollyjg]

Hi Riwaka,
Thanks for the recommendation! I just have the D8 and pan, and a small ag tractor at the moment.
I hired a 20 ton excavator this season, along with a few other machines as needed. It worked out pretty well. Being a small operation, though, it's not always easy to keep the hire machines busy all day - was running the D8 and 20 ton myself. Ok for a 7 day week - there's usually a 30 hr minimum on the hire machines (per/wk).

The ideal would be to use the machinery I have, if I can.. Looking at purchasing a ZX200-3 for next season. Hire on the 20 ton this season alone was 5/8 the cost of a tidy, mid to low hours machine (~3500hrs).

[longtime lurker]

Yeahhhh, just a bit of canopy mesh across the back will do, then forward to the uprights but don't play about get the proper woven wire mesh.

Look it's an 8, it runs 1 1/8" cable on the drum and you can drag 40 ton of dozer out the mud with it when she's down on her belly plates. Couple sticks aren't going to break the winch line unless it's in bad order or you do something dumb. That's the good news.

Bad news is if you aren't hard, fit and muscly you will be after dragging around 1 1/8" cable for a while. Well that or dead, its a heart attack in the making kind of job. And it takes a lot of log to make an 8 pay,  just with keeping juice up to her and undercarriage.

She the 235Hp or the 270? I've owned both and a 8K77V... Good old bangers!

[scsmith42]

Nice tractor! I too have a D8H, 46A series.  Mine was built in '73.  It does not have a winch though; I've been using a single shank ripper on the back for land clearing (stump removal).

These things are beasts!  The only drawback is fuel consumption.  I'll go thru 125 gallons per day if I'm working it hard.  That really hurt when diesel shot up over $4.00 per gallon.

Best of success to you with your project.  

[Iwawoodwork]

Just need a good back screen, never had a problem with the winch line (usually 1 inch) whipping around  when breaking, just fell to the ground behind the cat. Put a lot of hours on D8 46a's logging/building road for Weyco, late 60's to early 80,s they were all winch cats, none had side screens and I recall no injuries from lack of side screens.  The Cats all had single lever winch controls, we also had a few 3-4 TD25's that had the older winches with two levers, the drum brake and the in-out lever, what a work out.

What  size wood are you going to be pulling? you might be able to use/adapt a smaller hydraulic winch run off the pan control.

[Tacotodd]

Granted, I’m used to dealing with 5/16 aircraft cable that has a rated breaking strength of 9800lbs with it not having any “flaws” in it, but I have broken different winch spools of it twice. Be on the hearing lookout, if possible, of that tink, tink, tink sound that you get just prior to breaking.

At that point, you know it’s about to let go, and be prepared for doing something different. I’ve got some cable clamps for a backup plan and I don’t want to use them, but I will.

If you ever have to go that route just remember the old saying “never saddle a dead horse”. At least 3 clamps. Also remember that a cable that breaks close to you is like a 12 gauge shotgun at close range. NASTY!

[Walnut Beast]

Sounds like you really got it fixed up. A friend has a D 6 high track that he had got new. His Mechanic asked if he ever rebuilt the motor at 18,500. He said no. It still ran pretty good but he said they should rebuild it. They did and new tracks and undercarriage. He has several CAT and DEERE dozers and said the CATs  hold up better. When I was helping him building terraces. I ran both and preferred the CAT. Back in the day he told me about monster cottonwoods that you don't see anymore.  That they used to take down and how they had to dig way down around them. 

[mike_belben]

Good Lord is that a lotta fuel!!  I can push all day on 10 gallons with the 6cylinder D31P.    The nippondenso/bosch pumped jap diesels are great on fuel.  My 2 cyl kubota seems like it runs on air. 

[ehp]

the winch on our D8 was power out and power in and we had 1 1/4 inch cable on it , yes very heavy but hardly ever had a problem . I can still remember the first time running that machine and was to blade smooth a area I cleared in bush , I thought I did not a bad job until I got off machine . I sucked , I had 6 inch ridges all over the place but I got alot better fast with it 

[ollyjg]

Thanks for all the help guys!

Sounds as though I was being a little bit optimistic. Fit and muscly would be ok. Prefer to avoid the heart attack.. It's one of the later builds (46A31286) / the 270hp. Would love to get on an 8K too.

Was looking for a D6C/D, originally, but there weren't any to be found. The 8 is a tight fit with the pan at times. But I've been impressed with how maneuverable it is with the dolly. Having said that, I've lost the pan down the bank several times on some of the narrow cuttings.. :-\. There was a tidy looking D6C that came up for sale a few months back. Would have been a good size for this small clearing job. A fleet of CATs would be nice. Maybe a 6-way on the next one, or at least a bull tilt.

Thanks scsmith42. Can imagine it drinking with a ripper on the back. The country we are working is fairly steep and I'm hauling a fair distance on grade, but haven't managed to get her hot, hot yet with just the pan. So far, it has been drinking less than I was expecting. Got any pics of your cat ripping?

Thanks Iwawoodwork and longtime lurker. Do you recall the brand / model of the single lever winch you were running on your 46a's? Would be nice to have a free spooling winch, even if I can't use it for skidding. Had only heard of the Hysters until now (D89), but I see there is a Carco J120 and W12D (Allied?) that may be an option too.

@ ehp; Yep, still making ridges.. Quick skim with the pan seems to take care of them :. Just finished welding up a small land leveller (9'x5') for the ag tractor (65hp) that I can use to skim over the paddocks once the topsoil has gone back down, and hook a set of harrows behind, too. Just turning 'gently' with the 8 seems to make a hole.  

[ollyjg]

never had a problem with the winch line (usually 1 inch).. Put a lot of hours on D8 46a's logging. The Cats all had single lever winch controls.

What  size wood are you going to be pulling? you might be able to use/adapt a smaller hydraulic winch run off the pan control.

Hi Iwawoodwork. We havent got too much to do this coming season; about 20 acres of 25yr old pinus radiata. Some of the trees are a good size (the EC220 we had was struggling to drag some of the sticks, let alone lift an end). For the most part, no more than a 25"-30" LED. They weren't thinned, so they are nice and tall.
With a 70m cable you could pull most of it to the ridgeline and straight onto the deck.

Will certainly look around for a smaller winch. Were you skidding with the 8s?

[Iwawoodwork]

Yes we were skidding. We were building logging roads in the Oregon Coast Range, had quite a bit of steep, broken ground, lots of winching, we were using 100 ft of 1" bull line, We used  quick nubbins on the end and a slip on hook for the two 3/4" chokers. We had an arch/fairlead on top of the winch to get lift, large fairlead roller maybe 12" diameter, was easier on the cable. the fairlead roller was about 2-3 feet above the winch. We were logging old growth Doug fir usually bucked for 40 foot logs.