Backhoe help

aigheadish · June 07, 2022, 02:07:11 PM

This morning I plugged ForestryForum on the heavyequipmentforums.com so I feel obliged to reciprocate. On HEF there is a great backhoe section with tons of info and a bunch of people with lots of experience. That's not to say you aren't getting good advice here, as it looks like it'd be very similar advice over there and the folks here know the specifics of moving wood like maybe you are doing. HEF is great for maintenance questions and research also.

I have a 2004 New Holland LB75B that I'm very pleased with, I can get an amazing amount of work done with it. I totally agree with those that mentioned finding a plumbed thumb and quick disconnect front loader would be incredible. I have forks on my loader bucket and they are great but very difficult to see with the bucket in the way, no loader bucket plus forks sounds like a dream. There is also, as mentioned, something to be said for moving it with a standard-ish truck and trailer. Mine was delivered with a decent sized dually (350/450 sized?) and a beefy trailer but I don't think I'd do that if it were me moving it.

EricR · June 07, 2022, 06:31:56 PM

Trailering it shouldn't be a huge issue for me I have a deck over trailer. Did your new holland want to do a wheelie when loading and unloading. I know the older backhoes like to on the beaver tail and can get you into some big trouble if you don't know to expect it .I don't have any experience with newer stuff. I was wondering if they were balanced better

Riwaka · June 07, 2022, 08:34:54 PM

From a logging/ forestry perspective, the TA might be prioritizing machine decisions in a potentially sub-optimal order. The bulldozer-type track loader has been relegated from the pro-level operations over the years. Even the rubber tire loaders require a mesh over the front window now.
Rubber tire loaders and bulldozer-type track loaders for log loading were relegated in some places due to the mud mess they made.
Probably possible to upgrade the guarding on a 455.Mesh over window example etc.
4-D Welding & Fabricating in Kamloops, BC, Canada

I sometimes wonder if the safety people want forestry machines to be like tanks with no windows or completely remotely operated machine operations.
What are the log loaders alternatives? truck mounted knucklebooms, mobile/ non mobile trailer type knucklebooms, large rubber tire base knuckleboom/ excavator conversions, track log loaders, etc.
If the environmental people turned up and they did not want any bulldozer track loaders, probably pick an old mobile trailer knuckleboom or old roadbuilder that can swap between a bucket and load grapple.

A 307 = probably on budget $30-40K, 360 swing, single ram tilt bucket and hydraulic quick bucket changeover system can help. Add 2 or 3 feet to the dipper stick improves reach, blade. Downsides - not rops cab, generally getting a bit old, steel track U/C expense.
Caterpillar 307B
Cat 307B Excavator - YouTube

ASV U/C probably can be improved.
ASV MACHINES

Adding dual rear wheels to narrow rear axle non 4 wheel steer 4wd Backhoe loaders can
improve stability in rural land use situations.

Mega dollar solution Hitachi ZX 225 - guarded up to load logs and still be used as an excavator.
HITACHI ZX225 ðŸŽ®ðŸŒ³ PORTEUR FORESTIER TELECOMMANDÃ‰ - YouTube

aigheadish · June 08, 2022, 06:14:05 AM

Quote from: EricR on June 07, 2022, 06:31:56 PMDid your new holland want to do a wheelie when loading and unloading.

Absolutely did! It was a bit nerve-wracking when I wasn't expecting it. My first time unloading it, when it was delivered, I had to drive it off ramps that were not beefy enough for the task and it was scary to watch them bend as I pulled back too. My guess is that the mistake of the delivery guy, using too small a ramp, was that took every bit of profit out of the delivery.

customsawyer · June 08, 2022, 07:00:45 AM

I have hauled my different backhoes numerous times and they never seemed light on the front. If you keep your hoe tucked in tight to the cab and your front bucket as low as possible than it shouldn't be a problem. I've never had a 2wd so maybe that is the difference. If it is a problem I would just leave a scoop of dirt in the front bucket or load it backwards.

tacks Y · June 08, 2022, 08:56:02 AM

I have a JD 310D 4wd and the front of it is light.

barbender · June 08, 2022, 09:28:19 AM

2wd backhoes definitely get light in the front when loading, but it's not a big deal once you get used to it😊

scsmith42 · June 08, 2022, 05:30:41 PM

Quote from: EricR on June 05, 2022, 12:27:46 PM

Sc Smith were you just looking at cat or did you look at other brands?

I looked at all brands. My equipment roster includes Cat, Dresser, International, John Deere, Ford, New Holland, Kubota, P&H, and Kioti. I'm not brand loyal; but typically select the best value for my needs.
The 420dIT was a quantum leap better for my needs than anything offered by anybody else. I like my John Deere equipment, but the versatility of the 420 makes it the last piece that I would sell.
The hydraulics are a beast. There are times that I'm picking up logs so heavy that in order to keep the front tires on the rims I have to extend the backhoe all the way out (it's an extend-a-hoe) in order to serve as a counterweight.

EricR · June 25, 2022, 03:51:11 PM

I went to look at a case 580 SL today. It seems like a solid machine. It has 4400 hrs on it. My one concern, and I'm unsure because it's the first I looked at but when I took the oil fill cap off , which is on the side of the block, it was spitting out a fair amount of oil at idle. It was getting onto the loader arm and a few drop got me in the face. I should have taken a video but didn't think of it at the time. Does that seem excessive. My understanding is it's a Cummins 4bt and I don't have much experience with them. Thanks

barbender · June 25, 2022, 04:43:28 PM

It depends on where the fill is mounted, I guess? It could be splashing back, it makes it hard to tell how much actual blowby there is though. The 4bt is a solid engine.

EricR · June 25, 2022, 05:15:19 PM

Well I think it's a 4bt. Case doesn't call it that but it certainly looks like one. That's what I was thinking it seems to go right into the crankcase. All of the other engines I have it's either in the valve cover or in the timing cover.

BargeMonkey · June 25, 2022, 06:52:51 PM

My 460s fill into a pipe off the side of the block, 6BT. A 4BT will run and run till they are just tired, if it hasn't been beat 4400hrs isn't probably half way there yet especially in a TLB. What did the stick look like when you pulled it ? Was it overfull to begin with ?

barbender · June 25, 2022, 08:26:12 PM

I think Case called them a 4-390. Case and Cummins actually developed the B series engine together from what I understand

chevytaHOE5674 · June 25, 2022, 09:03:47 PM

Yeah case calls them 4-390 and 4t-390 depending if its a turbo out not. Same as a cummins 4b and 4bt.

Oil fill should be a short pipe going into the block above the pan rail i believe. Would seem unlikely to get oil splashing out unless the crankcase was way over full.

The two 4bt's I own have that oil fill setup and I could run them all day long on level ground without the fill cap and not lose any oil...

EricR · June 25, 2022, 10:57:20 PM

Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on June 25, 2022, 09:03:47 PM

Oil fill should be a short pipe going into the block above the pan rail i believe. Would seem unlikely to get oil splashing out unless the crankcase was way over full.

The two 4bt's I own have that oil fill setup and I could run them all day long on level ground without the fill cap and not lose any oil...

Here is a picture I found of a 580sl. Is that similar to your set up? If so your saying no oil should spit out of that fill at all. Thanks.

EricR · August 16, 2023, 08:36:58 AM

Older topic but thought I would try to bring it back. I still haven't pulled the trigger on a backhoe yet hoping prices would come down, but the kubota 121 mini excavator I have been using is leaving this month so the search is becoming more urgent.
Wondering if anyone on here has experience with rubber tired excavators? Do they get stuck as easy as they say? I realize you won't cross a swamp with it and I may have to wait for certain times of the year to go some places. Will it go everywhere my loaded 33,000 6 wheeler could go. I have an eye on a cat m312. I know it's not the way most think but I don't want tracks. I do too much walking and most likely any machine in my budget will need an undercarrage sooner rather then later and I don't want to deal with that. It would be something like this or a backhoe loader and I know I'll miss the 360 ability if I get a backhoe

nativewolf · August 16, 2023, 08:56:52 AM

Having used both I'd hate to go back to a backhoe. What are you using it for at the moment? How often do you need it? Can you get by with a wheeled skid steer? you can put steel tracks around those to help with traction on dirt or reduce footprint.

chevytaHOE5674 · August 16, 2023, 09:27:00 AM

The county has a Cat M312 and also a newer Deere wheeled excavator. I've pulled the machines out with my tractor more than a few times when they spin out on a grassy hill leading up/down from a culvert they maintain on my farm. Useless on anything but hard flat ground in my experience.

EricR · August 16, 2023, 10:25:01 AM

Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on August 16, 2023, 09:27:00 AM
The county has a Cat M312 and also a newer Deere wheeled excavator. I've pulled the machines out with my tractor more than a few times when they spin out on a grassy hill leading up/down from a culvert they maintain on my farm. Useless on anything but hard flat ground in my experience.

Do they sink or just spin? Would a set of chains help a lot in that situation.
I pretty much use the machine all the time but that might just be because it's what's available. I could use a backhoe for pretty much everything I do, probably just not as efficiently when it comes to hoe work, and like you said I'm having a hard time going back after using an excavator. I would love to go to a 8-9 ton excavator but with the prices of those it's not in the cards. And again, I like tracks but at the same time I don't for the traveling that I do
I'm not really a skid steer fan. I pretty much work alone and I get into a lot of situations when loading/unloading using chains I can't get out of the cab-at least not safely. I have a Deere 455 track loader I can use for that sort of stuff. I need something to dig with.
I keep trying to tell myself I'm primarily a logger/firewood guy not an excavation business and just get the backhoe and deal with its inefficiency. It might take longer but can get it done.
Also, finding a backhoe in the 30-35k range with a quick attach on the loader and hydraulic thumb that doesn't have a rotted cab is not as easy to find as I would have thought. I'm getting tired of driving 3+ hours to look at junk.

chevytaHOE5674 · August 16, 2023, 11:15:46 AM

It just spins because there is solid road gravel underneath with 1/2" of grass over top. In cases where the ground is less than rock solid it sinks to the axles and needs to dig itself out or get towed out.

There's a reason you don't see many wheeled excavators other than municipalities where they like to drive them down the road at 20mph.

BargeMonkey · August 16, 2023, 11:16:25 AM

Neighbor next door to where I worked last spring had a newish cat wheel machine, came out of NYC for a song, he's put like 10k into it and I still haven't seen it move. I've been around a few, 595D wasn't a bad machine, but not off the hard stuff.

35k give or take you can find a decent 310SE, SG, or 410G or newer. Couplers are pricy but handy, the thumb is easy, almost all those machines came factory plumbed. The stuff is around in that price range not beat to death.

NE Woodburner · August 16, 2023, 11:23:55 AM

I work for a company that has a lot of track excavators from mini to quite large. We also have a Cat M312. It is a good machine for road work where you are travelling on asphalt or concrete and don't want to damage the surface with tracks. It is our most underutilized excavator.

I do not think you would be happy using the M312 in many applications meant for a track machine.

EricR · August 16, 2023, 01:05:22 PM

I guess I'll have to go with a backhoe with the thought I can always sell it if it doesn't work out.
I was searching on the heavy equipment forum and someone in Europe talked about putting floatation tires on the wheeled machines and they would go anywhere but that seems like it would be an expensive education if it didn't perform as expected

I can't really wrap my head around these prices. Maybe fb marketplace isnt where I should be looking but I see deere D-G anything from 3,000 hrs to 8,000+ some obviously beat on some pretty decent (in the pictures) and there all the same price. I don't feel any D series unless very low hours and garaged it's whole life should be anywhere near the 30k mark but maybe that's just me.
For the technology you get in a D series, I sometimes think I should save a lot of money and just pick up a clean ford 655 for less then half the price