Storing dried lumber

[farmfromkansas]

Doc, you don't have to call, just google Chuck Henry Sales.  They have prices on the website.  My experience is that is the price, take it or leave it.  Of course, they have the best prices around.  I was going to get a couple of stress cast panels to set mine on, what did you use?

[Al_Smith]

So Al, did you get your container?  This local guy is OK, he has a lot at Solomon KS, sells trailers, trucks, containers, all sorts of stuff.  You can see his ad at Chuck Henry Sales.

Oh yes that was last spring .It came from a company called Container One which in a way is just a broker .The sales lady was Christene who is in Texas .I highly recommend them .The delivery was faultless and on time also included in the price .Christene has an ad on Craigslist and also just under shipping containers accessed by a Google search .
It was almost under monsoon weather conditions but I had the stone pad down already and an old Oliver Gasoline powered bulldozer and got him back in .I told him I could have got there if he had the brakes set ,one way or another. Which is an embellishment of course but it got a laugh  :D

[doc henderson]

I looked there, but I was too far for delivery for free, so I bought mine 10 miles from here.  I was going to call my local place.  I think KC is even cheaper than CH.  they have  a good selection.  mine sets on dunnage, as the frame is heavy duty!

[farmfromkansas]

Chuck has a KC price, about 300 less than Solomon, but don't think I want to go to KC and drag it home myself.

[Al_Smith]

When I shot the grade in for the pad I put a drop in it  so it would drain towards the back end ,Thus it took a rail road tie in the back and a treated 4 by 4 on the front or door end to set the box level .I've got the make an adapter though for a hydraulic jack because it is off a little bit side to side making one door a tad bit difficult to operate .Not a big deal I just haven't got to it yet .
With $2400 in the box and maybe at best another $1000 in stone plus some repair on the 60 year old bull dozer I could not have built a building that  large that cheaply or quickly .

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

Quiz question.  You have 3000 bf of KD oak lumber in a small container that is fairly well sealed...no holes and door gaskets are fine.  The container has an empty volume of 900 cubic feet.  When you load the lumber into the container, the outside air has about 65% RH, so the air in the container when you close the door is 65% RH, but the lumber is 7.0% MC  How much will the MC of the oak lumber increase due to 65% RH air in this sealed container.  Give your answer to the closest 1% MC.

Hint.  3000 BF of oak weighs about 7500 pounds, so to change the MC of this lumber by 1% MC will require about 70 pounds of water

Hint.  The amount of water in the air is about 0.0007 pounds per cubic foot.

In a tight container, if the doors stay closed, how much MC can you expect?

[DR Buck]

I use shipping containers.   I had 2 20 ft containers I used for about 10 years.  I put all my kiln dried lumber in them.  Each one had a Costco consumer dehumidifier in them set at 35% RH.  I used an external hose to drain out the side so I would not have to worry about emptying the DH.    They almost never had water in them and my lumber MC stayed almost dead-on year round what the final kiln MC was when I put it in storage.  Never added any heat or additional venting or cooling.   Just sealed with the dehumidifier set.   

This summer I hope to get our furniture that has been stored in my containers moved into the completed house.   Then I will have a place to store lumber again.  ;D   

I will be using a 9 ft high cube this time so I will build racks to store lumber vertical.  This will make it easier to see what I have and to get to it.   

[farmfromkansas]

Hey Dr-Buck, that is a great idea.  I have vertical storage in my shop, it is like a library where I can tilt a board out to check it out.  Some of my boards are too long, so could put a vertical rack on one side, and a stack on the other. 

[doc henderson]

@GeneWengert-WoodDoc I will take a crack at it.

the simple way would be to take the volume of air x the pounds of water per volume

900 cubic feet  x 0.0007 pounds/cubic foot = 0.63 pounds of water in the air.

If it takes 70 pounds of water to increase the MC by 1% then

0.63 pounds of water / 70 pounds of water per 1% MC change = 0.009% change.  

so not much.  

to be more accurate I would subtract the volume of the 3,000 bf of lumber from the volume from the container.  

so 900 cubic feet -  250 cubic feet = 650 cubic feet air volume at 65%  

the above also assumed all the water in the air went into the wood, so more likely it all equalized at about RH of 35% so only half the water went into the wood.  so it would be even less.

650 cubic feet air x 0.0007 pounds/cubic feet = 0.455 pounds of water.

65% - 35%  =  30% of the RH into the wood

0.455 x (30%/65%) = 0.21 pounds into the wood.

0.21 pounds water / 70 pounds of water per 1% MC change = 0.003% so even less.

This is good practice, thanks for the story problems Gene.  let me know where I went wrong!

[Al_Smith]

A little experiment perhaps .When I put the lights in the shipping  box I used 2 by 4's to span over the top to mount  the lights which as typical these days not really dry like premium kiln dried like Weyerhaeuser and I have a few left over still in the box .What I wonder is after this period of time with air movement in a box if they have dried a bit .It won't be hard to figure out .I would say they should .

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

Doc Henderson....A+

[farmfromkansas]

Question Dr. Gene, how much air is changed in your container when you open up and enter it?  Does not seem like all the air would empty out every time you open the door, given that they are long narrow enclosed containers.

[Al_Smith]

First of all I 'm not an expert .That said some sea boxes have ventilation vents high up on the walls which vent of hot air but provide no real cross ventilation  .A fan within in theory puts a slight pressure in the box ,very slight .BTW a good tight sea box is said will float for about 30 to 50 days before it sinks .Imagine the amount of cell phones on the bottom of the Pacific ocean from the boxes that fell off of container ships .

[doc henderson]

my humidity changes due to temp. throughout the day.  I go in and out, but it might be 30 days between.  If you open the doors and leave them open, or with fans running actively circulating the air, it will change more.  I have tried running my DH in mine and get very little water.  the wood has remained about 7% MC for 4 years.  I think @GeneWengert-WoodDoc story problem illustrates this well.  I think if you get in and out of it 4 times a day, you may want to run a DH overnight occasionally.  the RH in the air will be highest when the temp is the lowest!  that is when the DH will work its best.

[Nebraska]

 Wood Aholic never heard such a thing...... :D

[YellowHammer]

Here's another problem....,
Assume 3,000 bdft of oak lumber weighs 7,500 lbs, and all has minimum length of 8 foot 2 inches long.  Also assume you have a standard 40 foot shipping container with an internal width of 7 foot 8 inches wide.  

Then the question is if using a 55 year old guy with an artificial hip, how much wood can be loaded into the container?  How long does it take to load it?  How long before the 55 year old guy gives up or has a heart attack?  

[Al_Smith]

Oh maybe better than a 72 year old with a torn bicep on one arm and a torn rotator on the other arm .Speed is not of the essence , coffee/beer breaks  works wonders .I prefer the later  8)

[Ianab]

How much wood could an old Woodchuck chuck?

Depends how long he has to Chuck it.  :D

Might take a few days, but the money you save on gym membership will cover that. 
Coffee to keep you going, and a beer when you have had enough for the day.  ;D

[YellowHammer]

There's got to be a way to load one with a forklift, but I haven't figured it out yet.  Any ideas?  

[Al_Smith]

Come in with a stack on the forks so it's parallel with the box and slide them off one at a time .You don't have to lift them ,the fork lift will do that .

[farmfromkansas]

Only way I can think to load a container with a forklift is a track and carts.  Did build a track and carts for my solar dryer, but would have to set up the container to line up with the existing track and build more carts.  Think I will just set up some vertical racks, and remove the stickers and stack the lumber in the storage container, long stuff in piles of similar size, and vertical as long as will fit.  Not a job for a hot afternoon.  This project is going to have to wait a while, this virus deal is going to get to be a pain. Hope hot weather gets rid of it.

[YellowHammer]

I'm thinking a qty of 8 of 42inch packs, a thousand bdft per pack, in each container so 8 MBF each in short term storage. Then I need to unload via forklift to get at them fairly quickly. 

I'd need 3 or 4 full containers now, to gain space in our main building.   

[D6c]

Here's another problem....,
.........  Also assume you have a standard 40 foot shipping container with an internal width of 7 foot 8 inches wide....

I'll have to measure the inside width of the one container I have.  Might have to modify the width of my standard 4' wide lumber pallets so two will fit side by side.
Ideally I'd like to get a couple of side-opening containers (think they're usually the 20 footers).  That way I could fork in 8 pallets that are 8-9 ft long stacked two high.
Track system would work to end load but would be quite a bit of work to fabricate.

[doc henderson]

My stack of wood goes in still stickered since it is air dried.  The small DH keeps the water coming out until down to 7%.  If kiln dried, you can dead stack and get more in.  The question is will you be picking through and getting boards here and there?  that is when a long container can get tough.  If this is to stock pile for a later big project then a long one would work great!  Or I like the idea of stacking along on half.  Mantels and slabs leaning against the wall on one side would work with lighting.  Hope it does not lay your container on its side!  :D :D :D

[farmfromkansas]

Have to put a slab of concrete clear across on each end, level so the container does not twist.  I go over and get several boards from the dryer now, shop does not hold truckloads of wood, At least and also have room to work.  Thinking instead of building one project at a time, should get enough lumber for about 4 at a time, get all the panels ready and cut all the joints at once.  The small chests of drawers I build has a back log, but never had enough lumber dry enough to build several at a time.