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Storing dried lumber

Started by D6c, March 20, 2020, 10:20:32 AM

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D6c

After drying and semifinishing hardwood what do I need to consider for storage conditions?  I don't want to lose all the work put into it through poor storage that allows it to pick up moisture and possible warp/decay.
How much of a problem is it?

K-Guy

How difficult depends on your situation but all you need is a humidity controlled space.
Nyle Service Dept.
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
- D. Adams

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

You can control humidity by adding heat when it is too humid.  Also, keep the storage area free of wood debris and dust in order to control insects.  Never mix lumber you kiln dried with lumber someone else dried in order to control insects.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

D6c

I can see I will run out of dry storage pretty quickly.  How would shipping containers do for storage?
They're pretty well sealed but I'm not sure that they might get too hot.

Of course the best thing would be to get it sold and not store it.

K-Guy

They would work as long as you can control the humidity.
Nyle Service Dept.
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
- D. Adams

YellowHammer

A shipping container would be fine, or any other dehumidified space.  Most of the containers have small vents so they will let moisture it.  We run dehumidifiers in our building, I'd probably do the same in a shipping container.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

We ran several shipping containers, painter black on the roof, with a small supplemental heater when really cold in Dallas, TX.  A small fan stirred the air. The black roof provided very dry afternoon, while in early morning, the humidity was high.  On the average, it was perfect.  Use a humidistat to turn on the supplemental heat in cold weather or cloudy weather. Set it at about 35% RH.  In the summer, we can go without supplemental heat most of the time.

Check the chapter on storage in DRYING HARDWOOD LUMBER. 
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

doc henderson

I have a 8 x 20 that opens up all along the side.  it sat all winter and the wood MC has not changed.  I have 2 fans and a home DH in there.  I just turned stuff back on but it has been 35% RH in the container, so very little moisture coming out.  it is the original yellow color.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

D6c

Quote from: doc henderson on March 20, 2020, 06:14:29 PM
I have a 8 x 20 that opens up all along the side.  it sat all winter and the wood MC has not changed.  I have 2 fans and a home DH in there.  I just turned stuff back on but it has been 35% RH in the container, so very little moisture coming out.  it is the original yellow color.
Like to have a few if those but they're kind of pricey.

farmfromkansas

Just looked at the local guy's site, and looks like you can buy a plain 40'x8x8 for 2500. Probably a little more for delivery.  Guy has the biggest forklift I have ever seen to handle the containers. Have been considering getting one of his containers to put dry wood in. Otherwise have to wait till I build a lot of projects before there is room in the dryer.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

PA_Walnut

Out of necessity, sometimes we have to store lumber outside for short periods (coming out of kilns, awaiting next steps.). I dead pile it, wrap the entire load in 6mil plastic, then place on 12' or so of bunks to get air flow under it. Then cover the entire thing with a tarp, WELL tied-down and anchored. This works great.

However, be aware that mother-nature is AGAINST YOU: the more you have outside, the more likely a wicked storm is to blow up. I have had multiple loads get rain-soaked after wind tore off the covers. Another round of sticking and an additional day in the kiln is real aggravating and requires whiskey.   :-\ :D

Shipping container works great. My private-stock goes in one. MC stays great.
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

D6c

Quote from: farmfromkansas on March 21, 2020, 11:25:01 PM
Just looked at the local guy's site, and looks like you can buy a plain 40'x8x8 for 2500. Probably a little more for delivery.  Guy has the biggest forklift I have ever seen to handle the containers. Have been considering getting one of his containers to put dry wood in. Otherwise have to wait till I build a lot of projects before there is room in the dryer.
That's cheap.... around here a 20' with end door is about $2500.  Side door 20' is more like $4500.

farmfromkansas

Just checked out the container web site, he has domestic 48' x 8.5' x 9' high aluminum containers for 3200.  Is there any advantage besides size for these domestic containers?  No salty environment, he has steel as well but add 600.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

K-Guy

Quote from: farmfromkansas on March 31, 2020, 08:10:11 AMJust checked out the container web site, he has domestic 48' x 8.5' x 9' high aluminum containers for 3200. Is there any advantage besides size for these domestic containers?


Even if you are not in a salty environment the steel will rust and aluminum won't. Also if you ever need to store green wood, the tannic acid won't effect the aluminum.

Remember, like Neil Young said " Rust never sleeps"
Nyle Service Dept.
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
- D. Adams

doc henderson

FFK the only down side is if you need to get to stuff at the far end, unless you are hand storing on shelves.  with a long isle down one side.  you get a lot of volume but if stacked wide and to the ceiling, you cannot access the wood.  so it depends on if this is storage to sell out of  or just to store bulk wood.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Al_Smith

Just as general info I have 40 foot Costco  shipping box with a lot of upholstered  furniture in .I just run a box fan and it's dry as a bone .I paid an extra $100 to get a "cargo ready " box  with known good seals and not beat to a pulp .At 72 years old with a good double coat of Rust-o-leum hunter green probably good to go the rest of my life .

farmfromkansas

The guy's cheapest container is a 20' for 1700.  The cheapest 40' is 2500, so figured that was the best buy, then I noticed he has domestic containers, which assume have not been on the ocean, and would be salt free, but the aluminum is less expensive than steel at 3200. My dryer is full, my shop has little room, and have more lumber air dried, ready to be dried.  So was looking at filling a container with dried wood.  Really don't want to advertise lumber for sale, would be subject to all the laws for sales tax. Guess I will have to keep busy in my shop building stuff for family and neighbors to use up some of this wood.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

doc henderson

I bought a 20 foot one use.  means we import more than we export.  this one opens up on the end, and all along one side.  these have to have a heavier frame so are heavy and more expensive.  but I can load 10 foot pallets with skid forks.  did not know if this was bundles of flat stacked wood to heavy to lift, vs single boards that are hand carried and stacked.  just curious what your plan was.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

doc henderson

are you looking near Solomon Ks?  Mine looked brand new.  perfect seals and latches ect.  but closer to 5K.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

farmfromkansas

Doc, the ones like you have are now 6600.  Yes, Chuck Henry sales.  Nice to have lumber ready to use, but I have piles all over, some in my pole shed, 3 grain bins have lumber in them, barn has a big pile of oak. None of the air dried lumber is ready to use, so was thinking of just getting a container to hold dried lumber, and increase the variety. Have to confess, I am a Wood Aholic.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

btulloh

The best way to reduce your lumber inventory is to build a lumber shed with some of that lumber you've got sitting around.  Two problems solved!   :)
HM126

farmfromkansas

Planning to build a shop for my son.  Every guy needs a shop. He lives only about 20 miles away. 
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

Al_Smith

I think I had about $2400 in my 40 footer free delivery .The company was up around Cleveland ,the box in Columbus Ohio ,about 95 miles south east.The sales lady was in Texas.Wire transfer through the bank .
I had called one and got a PT Barnum type guy from evidently the PI by his accent. He claimed he had 90 % of the business in the USA..There are hustlers every where about any thing these days .

farmfromkansas

So Al, did you get your container?  This local guy is OK, he has a lot at Solomon KS, sells trailers, trucks, containers, all sorts of stuff.  You can see his ad at Chuck Henry Sales.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

doc henderson

FFK I got mine at a place 10 miles from here.  It is an Amish community called Fairview.  they brought it through the yard with a dedicated type of fork lift.  I bet the prices have gone up.  it put me in the free delivery range, and if I buy a second, they would discount it a bit.  Chuck Henry is the real deal.  If you want one, they will sell it to you, and if not they move on to the next deal.  I may call and check on prices here, but I bet it is sort of a commodity and they all go up and down.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

farmfromkansas

Doc, you don't have to call, just google Chuck Henry Sales.  They have prices on the website.  My experience is that is the price, take it or leave it.  Of course, they have the best prices around.  I was going to get a couple of stress cast panels to set mine on, what did you use?
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

Al_Smith

Quote from: farmfromkansas on April 01, 2020, 05:11:20 AM
So Al, did you get your container?  This local guy is OK, he has a lot at Solomon KS, sells trailers, trucks, containers, all sorts of stuff.  You can see his ad at Chuck Henry Sales.
Oh yes that was last spring .It came from a company called Container One which in a way is just a broker .The sales lady was Christene who is in Texas .I highly recommend them .The delivery was faultless and on time also included in the price .Christene has an ad on Craigslist and also just under shipping containers accessed by a Google search .
It was almost under monsoon weather conditions but I had the stone pad down already and an old Oliver Gasoline powered bulldozer and got him back in .I told him I could have got there if he had the brakes set ,one way or another. Which is an embellishment of course but it got a laugh  :D

doc henderson

I looked there, but I was too far for delivery for free, so I bought mine 10 miles from here.  I was going to call my local place.  I think KC is even cheaper than CH.  they have  a good selection.  mine sets on dunnage, as the frame is heavy duty!
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

farmfromkansas

Chuck has a KC price, about 300 less than Solomon, but don't think I want to go to KC and drag it home myself.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

Al_Smith

When I shot the grade in for the pad I put a drop in it  so it would drain towards the back end ,Thus it took a rail road tie in the back and a treated 4 by 4 on the front or door end to set the box level .I've got the make an adapter though for a hydraulic jack because it is off a little bit side to side making one door a tad bit difficult to operate .Not a big deal I just haven't got to it yet .
With $2400 in the box and maybe at best another $1000 in stone plus some repair on the 60 year old bull dozer I could not have built a building that  large that cheaply or quickly .

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Quiz question.  You have 3000 bf of KD oak lumber in a small container that is fairly well sealed...no holes and door gaskets are fine.  The container has an empty volume of 900 cubic feet.  When you load the lumber into the container, the outside air has about 65% RH, so the air in the container when you close the door is 65% RH, but the lumber is 7.0% MC  How much will the MC of the oak lumber increase due to 65% RH air in this sealed container.  Give your answer to the closest 1% MC.

Hint.  3000 BF of oak weighs about 7500 pounds, so to change the MC of this lumber by 1% MC will require about 70 pounds of water

Hint.  The amount of water in the air is about 0.0007 pounds per cubic foot.

In a tight container, if the doors stay closed, how much MC can you expect?
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

DR_Buck

I use shipping containers.   I had 2 20 ft containers I used for about 10 years.  I put all my kiln dried lumber in them.  Each one had a Costco consumer dehumidifier in them set at 35% RH.  I used an external hose to drain out the side so I would not have to worry about emptying the DH.    They almost never had water in them and my lumber MC stayed almost dead-on year round what the final kiln MC was when I put it in storage.  Never added any heat or additional venting or cooling.   Just sealed with the dehumidifier set.   

This summer I hope to get our furniture that has been stored in my containers moved into the completed house.   Then I will have a place to store lumber again.  ;D   

I will be using a 9 ft high cube this time so I will build racks to store lumber vertical.  This will make it easier to see what I have and to get to it.   
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

farmfromkansas

Hey Dr-Buck, that is a great idea.  I have vertical storage in my shop, it is like a library where I can tilt a board out to check it out.  Some of my boards are too long, so could put a vertical rack on one side, and a stack on the other. 
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

doc henderson

@GeneWengert-WoodDoc I will take a crack at it.

the simple way would be to take the volume of air x the pounds of water per volume

900 cubic feet  x 0.0007 pounds/cubic foot = 0.63 pounds of water in the air.

If it takes 70 pounds of water to increase the MC by 1% then

0.63 pounds of water / 70 pounds of water per 1% MC change = 0.009% change.  

so not much.  

to be more accurate I would subtract the volume of the 3,000 bf of lumber from the volume from the container.  

so 900 cubic feet -  250 cubic feet = 650 cubic feet air volume at 65%  

the above also assumed all the water in the air went into the wood, so more likely it all equalized at about RH of 35% so only half the water went into the wood.  so it would be even less.

650 cubic feet air x 0.0007 pounds/cubic feet = 0.455 pounds of water.

65% - 35%  =  30% of the RH into the wood

0.455 x (30%/65%) = 0.21 pounds into the wood.

0.21 pounds water / 70 pounds of water per 1% MC change = 0.003% so even less.

This is good practice, thanks for the story problems Gene.  let me know where I went wrong!
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Al_Smith

A little experiment perhaps .When I put the lights in the shipping  box I used 2 by 4's to span over the top to mount  the lights which as typical these days not really dry like premium kiln dried like Weyerhaeuser and I have a few left over still in the box .What I wonder is after this period of time with air movement in a box if they have dried a bit .It won't be hard to figure out .I would say they should .

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

farmfromkansas

Question Dr. Gene, how much air is changed in your container when you open up and enter it?  Does not seem like all the air would empty out every time you open the door, given that they are long narrow enclosed containers.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

Al_Smith

First of all I 'm not an expert .That said some sea boxes have ventilation vents high up on the walls which vent of hot air but provide no real cross ventilation  .A fan within in theory puts a slight pressure in the box ,very slight .BTW a good tight sea box is said will float for about 30 to 50 days before it sinks .Imagine the amount of cell phones on the bottom of the Pacific ocean from the boxes that fell off of container ships .

doc henderson

my humidity changes due to temp. throughout the day.  I go in and out, but it might be 30 days between.  If you open the doors and leave them open, or with fans running actively circulating the air, it will change more.  I have tried running my DH in mine and get very little water.  the wood has remained about 7% MC for 4 years.  I think @GeneWengert-WoodDoc story problem illustrates this well.  I think if you get in and out of it 4 times a day, you may want to run a DH overnight occasionally.  the RH in the air will be highest when the temp is the lowest!  that is when the DH will work its best.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Nebraska

 Wood Aholic never heard such a thing...... :D

YellowHammer

Here's another problem....,
Assume 3,000 bdft of oak lumber weighs 7,500 lbs, and all has minimum length of 8 foot 2 inches long.  Also assume you have a standard 40 foot shipping container with an internal width of 7 foot 8 inches wide.  

Then the question is if using a 55 year old guy with an artificial hip, how much wood can be loaded into the container?  How long does it take to load it?  How long before the 55 year old guy gives up or has a heart attack?  




YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Al_Smith

Oh maybe better than a 72 year old with a torn bicep on one arm and a torn rotator on the other arm .Speed is not of the essence , coffee/beer breaks  works wonders .I prefer the later  8)

Ianab

How much wood could an old Woodchuck chuck?

Depends how long he has to Chuck it.  :D

Might take a few days, but the money you save on gym membership will cover that. 
Coffee to keep you going, and a beer when you have had enough for the day.  ;D
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

YellowHammer

There's got to be a way to load one with a forklift, but I haven't figured it out yet.  Any ideas?  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Al_Smith

Come in with a stack on the forks so it's parallel with the box and slide them off one at a time .You don't have to lift them ,the fork lift will do that .

farmfromkansas

Only way I can think to load a container with a forklift is a track and carts.  Did build a track and carts for my solar dryer, but would have to set up the container to line up with the existing track and build more carts.  Think I will just set up some vertical racks, and remove the stickers and stack the lumber in the storage container, long stuff in piles of similar size, and vertical as long as will fit.  Not a job for a hot afternoon.  This project is going to have to wait a while, this virus deal is going to get to be a pain. Hope hot weather gets rid of it.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

YellowHammer

I'm thinking a qty of 8 of 42inch packs, a thousand bdft per pack, in each container so 8 MBF each in short term storage. Then I need to unload via forklift to get at them fairly quickly. 

I'd need 3 or 4 full containers now, to gain space in our main building.   

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

D6c

Quote from: YellowHammer on April 04, 2020, 10:15:01 PM
Here's another problem....,
.........  Also assume you have a standard 40 foot shipping container with an internal width of 7 foot 8 inches wide....

I'll have to measure the inside width of the one container I have.  Might have to modify the width of my standard 4' wide lumber pallets so two will fit side by side.
Ideally I'd like to get a couple of side-opening containers (think they're usually the 20 footers).  That way I could fork in 8 pallets that are 8-9 ft long stacked two high.
Track system would work to end load but would be quite a bit of work to fabricate.

doc henderson

My stack of wood goes in still stickered since it is air dried.  The small DH keeps the water coming out until down to 7%.  If kiln dried, you can dead stack and get more in.  The question is will you be picking through and getting boards here and there?  that is when a long container can get tough.  If this is to stock pile for a later big project then a long one would work great!  Or I like the idea of stacking along on half.  Mantels and slabs leaning against the wall on one side would work with lighting.  Hope it does not lay your container on its side!  :D :D :D
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

farmfromkansas

Have to put a slab of concrete clear across on each end, level so the container does not twist.  I go over and get several boards from the dryer now, shop does not hold truckloads of wood, At least and also have room to work.  Thinking instead of building one project at a time, should get enough lumber for about 4 at a time, get all the panels ready and cut all the joints at once.  The small chests of drawers I build has a back log, but never had enough lumber dry enough to build several at a time.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

doc henderson

anybody good with a rubix cube or those little square slider puzzles that spell words or make pictures?  might help with arranging a system to access the wood after it is back 40 feet.  cause you know which one you will need first. :)  If it was for a building, you could reverse mill it, so it came out in the order you needed.  could use swivel casters and have an isle and a row of stacks.  maybe a winch cable to help pull them out.  or get some of the roller tables to roll in or out down the middle or side.  you are living the dream.  are you young enough to do parkour over stacks of lumber?   :)
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

alan gage

Quote from: YellowHammer on April 05, 2020, 08:28:24 AM
There's got to be a way to load one with a forklift, but I haven't figured it out yet.  Any ideas?  
I think the best answer is spend the extra money for a container where the whole side opens, like Doc has. I think they even make 40' ones that do that. But that's more money and then I get to thinking that I could build a decent building for that much money. But of course that takes more time and isn't moveable.
I can't bring myself to buy an end loading container if the only purpose is storing wood just because of the labor and inefficiency of loading/unloading. But I can't quite bring myself to spend the money for a side open model either.
Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

Stephen1

Lets see, We have samills and we are talking about buying a steel container to hold our wood ::)
I would just build something to hold my wood. Does not have to insulated, as the containers are'nt. Start small and design to keep adding to one end as the needs arise.
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

doc henderson

the advantage of the container is it is well sealed.  If you build a building for kiln dried wood, it will have to be insulated and airconditioned to mimic indoor home humidity.  If the wood was air dried that would be fine.  I think most wood structures breath a little.  I run a DH in my container from time to time.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Stephen1

Quote from: doc henderson on April 13, 2020, 10:38:38 AM
the advantage of the container is it is well sealed.  If you build a building for kiln dried wood, it will have to be insulated and airconditioned to mimic indoor home humidity.  If the wood was air dried that would be fine.  I think most wood structures breath a little.  I run a DH in my container from time to time.
doc, most containers are not insulated, well sealed yes. Line the inside of a storage building with 6mil plastic, seal the joints, as good as a container. if it is not perfect you can still run your DH and maintain the moisture.
It is looking like some of us will have lots of free time as this mess continues.
Cheers
Stephen
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

doc henderson

I agree with that.  If you got the time to seal it up with plastic, that should work. can also just wrap a tightly stacked pallet with plastic as well.  good luck!  It is usually the doors that give people trouble, in terms of sealing and or getting good access.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

farmfromkansas

Can anyone share how much increase in temperature you would get in a container if you painted the roof black?
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

doc henderson

mine is yellow and gains about 20° over ambient daytime.  I know that @GeneWengert-WoodDoc  had mentioned it, we can see if he has numbers.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

farmfromkansas

Wooddoc posted once that maybe I should paint the roof of my reefer container black, it is also running about 20 degrees over outside temps, but is far from reaching 140 degrees.  Reason for my solar kiln is the hope for 140 degrees plus. Hate those PPB's. 
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

Al_Smith

Just paint in general anything with red pigment will eventually be pink .Green for some reason holds the color better .Black absorbs heat .White or silver reflects heat .Think of a black car in the middle of July or black seat covers .

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

It is extremely rare to get Lyctids PPB in air drying lumber if the MC is 20% MC or higher.  So, worrying about them in a kiln and trying to get 130F may not be needed.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

caveman

I mentioned yesterday's project on WDH's heart pine table build thread but it may be more appropriate here.  Recently we have begun using our solar kiln more.  With the weather we have been having it has been drying our previously air dried lumber in two to three weeks.  We have sold a small amount during the shutdown and built and sold a few benches in addition to the wood that the local hardwood lumber store has sold for us.  

The problem was that we have had dried lumber stacked on saw horses, benches and leaning on the few empty walls in my shop.  I could not even access my radial arm saw or chop saw.  We are currently storing dried lumber in the hot box and the kiln.

Yesterday morning we selected a couple of longleaf pine butt logs to saw into 2"x4"s.  We got 60 and a 1"x12" out of those two.  One, by the way, had 49 growth rings in a 2"x4".  We built a rack to store lumber inside the shop.  We loaded it this morning.  It works for slabs but should really work well for boards.  It took us most of the afternoon to build but all of the weight bearing boards were recessed 1" into the uprights rather than just relying on the strength of nails for support.


I know many of you have built storage racks/bins.  If you have any suggestions of what we should have done, feel free to share.  I hope that we need to build more storage.


 

 

 
Caveman

TCove

That's almost exactly what I have, in a large pole shed.  Wall to wall.
Love it. Works well.

busenitzcww

So I'm wondering, how many of you have climate controlled shops? And also how many of the big hardwood dealers/builders have climate controlled buildings? It seems ideal to be able to monitor wood after it comes out of the kiln but how practical when your talking volume? I know some of you guys mill/dry/sell volume. What's your approach? I hate handling everything by hand. 

WDH

I keep my inventory of kiln dried wood climate controlled using dehumidifiers.  I keep the storage areas at 40% humidity. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

caveman

The largest hardwood dealer in town here has huge roll up doors open during business hours and the office is the only room in the 12,000 square foot building that has a/c.  Their wood is flat stacked on racks and their slabs stand upright in bins along a wall.
Caveman

YellowHammer

For us the key is not to store wood, but to sell wood.  As the inventory of wood turns over,  with newly dried and processed wood replacing dead stacked inventory, the building air stays remarkably dry.  By the time the wood might have a chance to come up moisture, it's sold and gone.

We leave our doors closed except during during business hours, and run a dehumidifier when the humidity gets too high.  However, the faster we can process the wood, and more importantly, the faster we can sell the wood, then the less problem we have with inventory issues, such as bugs, moisture, mice, etc.  

I much prefer to store inventory stickered under the air drying shed, and only pull it into activity when I predict a need for it.  So it doesn't get kiln dried and finished until I need it.  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

If wood changed its MC quickly, like with an open door for eight hours, we probably would not need kilns.  Of course, after eight hours, you need to close the door and run a dehumidifier (electric cost), so make sure that the open door policy sells lumber.  I think that Yellow Hammer has a good approach and we know that any customers will be impressed with the care he takes with the lumber.

ONE THING TO ADD TO YOUR STORAGE OR SELLING BUILDING IS A FEW ROCKING CHAIRS FOR FRIENDLY CONVERSATION.  Maybe even a small pot of coffee.  Social distancing and maybe masks.  I know of a few friends that did this and the customers once in a while brought doughtnuts.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Stephen1

Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on May 30, 2020, 05:47:18 PM
If wood changed its MC quickly, like with an open door for eight hours, we probably would not need kilns.  Of course, after eight hours, you need to close the door and run a dehumidifier (electric cost), so make sure that the open door policy sells lumber.  I think that Yellow Hammer has a good approach and we know that any customers will be impressed with the care he takes with the lumber.

ONE THING TO ADD TO YOUR STORAGE OR SELLING BUILDING IS A FEW ROCKING CHAIRS FOR FRIENDLY CONVERSATION.  Maybe even a small pot of coffee.
I like that idea, especially as the warm weather has arrived. I seem to be very busy talking to customers from where this all started.
I am open on saturday mornings, it started out as puttering day while the GF ran her Karate classes next door. I really was not looking to have any retail sails.
More and more people showing up as they find out I'm there.
 The Karate classes have been shut down for 2 months now(covid) 
I now have the hired 1 of the Karate students (14yrs old) to help me on saturday mornings, sweeping, general cleaning of the shop and yard, stickering. 
This Saturday morning store is slowly expanding from what I started. 
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

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