Homesteader Income Streams?

[Jason_AliceMae Farms]

So my goal eventually is to be in a position to be at my property full time to be able to homestead and enjoy it all the time.  I often think about different income streams for either a full or part time homesteader.  I am just throwing this out there to see what others may be doing currently on your homestead or other ideas you guys have had.  I think in another life I was a farmer/rancher or something along those lines because my day dreams always come back to the slower paced, hard work, old school way of life.

Income streams for the homestead I have thought about:
Small flock of sheep and other animals (chickens, dairy/meet cows, rabbits, etc.)
Garden, fruit/nut trees
Firewood
Sawmill services and some lumber
Land Clearing/excavation, haying, small scale logging (already be taking place on the homestead)
Small scale "agri-tourism"
welding services
incorporating other hobbies somehow (woodworking, hunting, fishing, etc.)
and the list goes on but the brain is failing me now...

What else do you guys do or would you like to get into?

[Leigh Family Farm]

I don't have a homestead yet, an emphasis on yet, so here are my thoughts on it.

Too many things may bog up your chance to make money. I would focus on the things that work in a nice synergy together, and have a core four or five money makers with several outlyers that produce money but aren't as steady. Here's how I would do it:

Chickens (eggs and broilers)
Rabbits (meat)
Pigs (meat)
Vegetables (small enough that I can handle it. Think CSA)
Fruits (U-pick berries, small apple & peach orchards)

These five would be my main focus. You can grow feed for your animals, eat the animals, and reduce labor costs with U-pick style fruits. From the reading I have done, these enterprises as a whole would take up about 6 hours a day (don't quote me on this, its just what I read). Obviously some days would be more focused on one aspect than others.

The outlyers for me would be:
Sawmill
Woodworking
Firewood
Beekeeping
Pumpkin patch
Beeswax candles

I picked these because they are enjoyable to me and can be done during slow times. I can cut firewood during winter when the vegetables aren't growing. Do woodworking at the same time. Make candles from the wax I harvested during the summer. Bees take an hour a week for small scale hives. Pumpkin patch is simple, low labor costs, and brings people to the homestead. Sawmilling would fill in the gaps.

Again this is all my opinions and should be taken with a grain of salt on the rim a margarita glass...

[Babylon519]

When my wife and I were first starting out, we came across an encyclopaedia-size book put out by Reader's Digest about self-sufficiency, homesteading etc. Even though we were both raised in middle-class homes (the lap of luxury to some), the bug hit us. Years later, we finally got our 25-acre hobby farm, and we've been enjoying it for over 10 years. First, we got the obligatory old horse for free; a buddy said "you paid too much" and he was right! (first weekend: $300 for hay, $300 for wood for a stall, and $300 for a saddle). Ultimately, we decided to start raising calves for red veal - something our friends and family would buy (the "Hundred-Mile Diet" has been our friend!). Wife thought it would make sense to start them out on milk, so we got a few dairy goats. Then we had too much milk, so we added a few spring lambs each year to fatten them up for the freezer. We also do about 150 broiler chickens each year (9 weeks in-and-out = $3000). We've done all this for about 8 cycles now. In addition to heating with our own wood, and renting out the 18 workable acres we have, the whole enterprise pays the mortgage, insurance and taxes and then some. Whether you look at it as another income in the household, or being paid to practise all your favourite hobbies, it adds up to a good lifestyle. The goats now number about 30, and their milk feeds our bull calves and sheep each year; we drink the milk also, and my wife makes a farm cheese that is welcome everywhere we go. We're the envy of all who visit us - even our city friends love that everything we do is so natural, laid-back, and yet our agricultural activities are surprisingly integrated, profitable, and fun. We had thought about raising Christmas trees, mushrooms, an orchard, or a CSA but, for some reason or other, never got around to those. Maybe we're too laid back!! :D
Now, my newest interest is the sawmill. I don't really care if I sell any wood, but something tells me our city friends will think one of my logs would make a nice headboard or patio table, and I'll see money coming my way. Another odd thing: it just keeps getting better each year!

[thecfarm]

No idea how close you are to a city,but them city people will spend the money. We tried a few things here in the country. It's hard. Most don't have the money and most want the one stop shopping,like Walmart. But there was a few that was kinda steady customers. But takes more than 10 to make a go of it. There are alot of "talkers" too. They ask for certain things,like turkey at Thanksgiving or meat birds. I ask for a deposit on such and they stop talking.

[36 coupe]

You could do this 40 years ago but not now.My re tax bill is 10 times what is was in 1967.My fuel oil costs 10 times what it was back then.Get your self a good job with benefits.

[21incher]

It really depends where you live and the use the property is zoned for. Some areas can really limit what you are able to do. Also anymore you may want to look into the insurance, licensing and department of labor requirements for each type of venture you would like to engage in. Also I see you live in NY so if you are located near a college you may qualify for the new 10 year tax free zone incentives they have created. My wife and I have found that by growing our own food, canning, and heating with wood we can live comfortably on very little. The only things we can't control are the property tax bill  and health insurance costs which rise drastically every year.

[Jason_AliceMae Farms]

Property tax definitely is a killer in NY but I don't want to end up in the woodshed getting into that one.

I am definitely not going into it with goals of becoming monetarily rich, for me it is the lifestyle and fulfillment that means more.  I would expect that I would be working another job even if it were just part time to offset income.  I am looking at it as more of a lifestyle/hobby that helps pay for itself and can be rewarding.

There are a few books I am reading now but next up are some of Joel Salatan's books.  He is a farmer in Virginia that is bit on sustainable farming and having your crops and animals work together for you to make a better product and take care of the land better.  I am going to try and take a trip this summer to his farm.

[r.man]

Outgoing is very important as well. My grandfather was the last family member to make a living on a farm and he had no hydro, heating, phone, tv or internet bill. He would have had taxes, foods that he didn't grow and many small things he didn't make as well as tools, lamp oil etc. I know bartering was common as well as substitution, maple syrup for sugar as an example. As for incoming niche crops and animals to me are the way to go. You cannot compete with the big operations on many things so don't try. Organic everything and cutting out as many middle men as possible so you are both competitive and profitable.

[m wood]

hi Jason.  Sorry I never PMd you back on job outlooks around here(got buisy).  I think you got a good overall starting point.  I like your story Babylon519, way to go!  I rent out about 40 tillable acres and it only pays 1/3 my propert taxes here in NY.  When I build and move onto the property those taxes will skyrocket :'(.  I would be into many of those afforementioned hobby farm ventures except for animal raising.  animal husbandry isn't our thing and we think they would tie us down too much.  We like the idea of organic vegetables and a stand, A large pumpkin patch in the fall, selling topsoil, lumber, an outdoor wedding venue and photo area has even crossed our minds.  if we could break even with the land we would be in heaven, and were getting close.  I refuse to go into debt and I'm willing to go cash on every venture we undertake, but thats limiting.  We both still have fulltime jobs and that doesn't diminish the fullfillment the land provides at this time.  However, I do want to make a full time job out of the land ventures and my wife is totally on board with that ;) that help tremendously..
mark

[SwampDonkey]

Where I live only the Mennonites are able to do it because they network and the rest of us tend to be cut throat. I live in a rural part of the continent, cities here are just large towns when compared to the US. Anyway, if you can grow 3 acres of carrots and 1 acre brocolli in fields, and lettuce, tomatoes and beat greens in the summer in greenhouses, have 5 sheep, 4 cows and ten chickens, burn 30 cords of firewood for yourself in an OWB to heat a house (most is green off the stump, some bought) and truck your carrots and other produce every week with a pickup truck for $90 in fuel costs to the nearest city. If you can do all that, pay for the farm, and have money to live your a lot smarter than I am. I know 3 of these independent summer road side stands that sold corn, squash and pumpkin and they lasted 1-3 years after they went broke. Most of us would need one family member in a good job and the farm is just a hobby where money is just a trickle and a lot of work.

[Cedarman]

First, I would move to a more business friendly state. 
We have no zoning in our county.  Makes it much easier to live.

[Sawyer697]

Think about adding Beekeeping into your mix, If you talk to the Mennonites, they will work with you as a rule. Pure Honey sells at a fair price. But the cost of equipment is expensive, till you get started. Raise your food and Can it.
Taxes and Health Insurance are the killer. Hope you love to work, Because it takes a lot of labor.

[OlJarhead]

What I have done is take a job in my field in the area our property is in and I commute to the job (45 miles to my main office).

Not ideal but lets me live on the homestead and pays the bills -- and I can telecommute when the weather is bad.

[Jason_AliceMae Farms]

Mark - not a problem at all, busy is good but with all the snow I know that I had at my place up there I am sure that you are tired of clearing snow by now.  I have to start another thread later on showing the shave horse that I put together to use built from scrap I found headed to the dumpster at work.

I agree with many of the posts here that financially with times today it is very difficult to have a hobby farm and expect to be profitable.  Competing with large commercial farms is not something I would even consider attempting especially starting basically from scratch.  NY is also not a great place for any money making business no matter how much they spend on commercials telling you otherwise.

I have a local farmer that hays about 20 acres for me and we got to talking one day since his family had a good size dairy farm up until about 10 years ago.  His father sold all their cows except some to keep for family use.  His father was tired of having to basically pay to milk his cows. 

From what I know small scale farming and small scale logging are similar in this way.....If you want to make $1Million dollars doing them then you should start off by having $2Million in the bank  :D

[chevytaHOE5674]

A lot depends on your area and what will sell and what people are willing to pay for. Meat chickens, hogs, market gardens, etc are relatively easy and lowish cost, but you won't be able to compete with Walmart prices so you have to find the niche market that is willing to pay.

Things like land clearing, excavation, and haying require a lot of equipment and maintenance which makes it hard turn a profit, especially if you aren't doing large acreages and doing it close to fulltime.

[Planman1954]

My 2 cents worth (which actually have been mentioned in round-about ways) are to first strive to be debt free. That is a worthy goal which can be met within a few years while still having a job working for others, and a definite plan of action (including selling things you may not need.) The second thing is to barter when putting together your homestead, whatever it might be. My career allowed me over the years to trade labor for services that I needed done around my place, and now I have no mortgage. Of course there are still utilities, insurance, food, and gas. When you become debt free, you become able to help others. Check out the grumpy old men thread!
One thing about Louisiana is that we have homestead exemption, which allows for low property tax for your home property. If your income is low, your state income tax is low also. This makes for an ideal situation to live in the scenario you spoke about.

[ely]

debt free is the way to be... I would advise against any U-pick fruit and veggies idea... for the simple fact that folks that do not know how to grow their own food certainly do not know how to pick that same food properly.
one unlearned individual in a garden can undo a lot of hard work in a short amount of time. just my opinion.

[thecfarm]

I know of a couple veggies stands within about 20 minutes of ours.One has it's fields,many miles away and buys alot in. They make some money. We have seen thier prices and had people come here comment on them. We have sold stuff to them.As we stand they waiting for a check,people are there just about all the time They have been in business for years. A steady stream of customers.
Than the other one has a garden right next to the stand. They have told me people will come right into the garden and pick stuff and do damage. he had to put a fence up to keep people out.They are on a busy state road and are not that busy. We have been there for a ½ hour and no one came.
The first one I mentioned could probably almost support a family. They do a wicked business. The second one,no way. Just like with ours,it helps,but does not pay all the bills.
You say you both work. Who will run the stand while you are working? My wife use to run it when I was working. She would have some mighty busy days a few years back. I built her a nice building to sell stuff in and last year was the worst year we ever had. Our best days would be like our worst days last year. We was stuck here for the whole summer. We close The C Farm for good. We are getting our summers back. I would work in the garden,just about steady. Between picking,mulching,to cut down on weeding,picking bugs off the plants,waiting on customers,some days was busy, I did not get much done for me.

[Corley5]

Open a winery.  Grow grapes and other fruits on the farm to make the wine.  If you build a winery they will come  ;) ;D

[Babylon519]

Corley, the county I live in has been investigating becoming a wine-making region. Soil and climate tests have shown that a segment of Huron County has many of the same conditions as the best wine-making regions of France. We have a two-acre plot where the horse grazed, but after he died last fall, we've been thinking about a small grape plantation. We have two Concord vines that we started a few years back, and this past season was their best ever. If anybody has experience with that, I'd love to hear about it. - Jason

[m wood]

What do you think about that Jason_AliceMae Farms???  Your in a wine region aren't ya?  Probably some major capital involved though.  I can just see the busses and tour limmos in your driveway now 8)

[Jason_AliceMae Farms]

Ha-ha.....the wine thing is a funny thing that you bring up.  I am smack dab in the middle of wine country there are A TON of wineries and vineyards a stones throw from my property.  Right down the hill from me was 10+ acres for sale that was all vineyard that I would have considered buying it if I had deep pockets.  The really sad part is that whoever bought the property ripped out all the grapes and now it is just grass  >:(  I was so sad and upset to see all that hard work gone just pulled out and plowed over.  I do have a couple of vines growing that have probably been in the ground for close to 10 years I think that just finally produced some good table grapes last year but table grapes are much different than wine grapes.

The niche thing with all of the wineries in my area is something that I have been thinking about for awhile now and trying to do some work for/with them.  I would rather they have all the busses and limos and I support them or set up some stands in their shops.  I am not too far from Watkins Glen Race Track or Keuka Lake either so I see more of an upside in the tourist market than the local crowd, (thinking bundled firewood now).

useless fact:  Paul Newman had a house on the lake and would stay there during races at the Glen and on vacation

There are many cottages on the lake that those from downstate rent and/or own and that is one of the ways I plan on walking in your shoes some Mark.....market some Adirondack chairs, swings, etc. once I make a few good log furniture pieces.

Thanks for all the input and suggestions so far!
Jason

[Corley5]

Grow grapes for the wineries.  They seldom have enough of their own and the price per ton can be quite impressive  8)

[SwampDonkey]

Or pick'm for $$/ton and let someone else tend them.  ;D :D

[Corley5]

Migrants do the picking  ;D

[SwampDonkey]

What about emigrants?  8) ;D

[Jason_AliceMae Farms]

I will probably throw grapes on the potential list.  I need to do more research on growing them and talk to people since that is something that I don't have a lot of knowledge in.  I do know that to make around 60 gallons or 1 barrel of wine it takes about 1 ton of grapes and depending on spacing, variety, soil, etc. etc. you could get anywhere from 1 to 2 tons per acre all the way to around 8 or 9 tons.....and infrastructure costs can vary depending on the variety and quality you want to grow.

The wine area I am in is known for their "Ice Wines" which are different that "Iced Wines" both are much sweeter but the big difference is when the grapes are picked and how they are processed.  "Iced Wine" grapes are picked as normal and are then frozen before processed.  For true "Ice Wine" the grapes are left on the vine to freeze completely outside naturally and begin to breakdown on their own and then they are picked by hand in those same freezing temperatures.

Ha-ha.....I don't even drink much anymore but I used to love the sweet Ice Wines and by no means am I am expert, you just pick some of this stuff up growing up in the area, 

[Corley5]

I've jumped into the grape growing business in a fairly big way with cold hardy varieties from the U. of Minn. that are suited to my area.  We've got 3,500 or so vines in the ground now from one to 4 years old and have another 1,200 or so to be delivered the first of May.  We hope to make some $$$ on them someday  ;) ;D

[Jason_AliceMae Farms]

Corley - how many acres do you have the 3500 vines spread over?  I have seen that depending on factors people have planted upwards of 4000 vines per acre with a very tight spacing.  With that many vines they are only asking each vine to produce 6 or 7 clusters instead of 10 to 15 clusters each for the same yield.

I would be interested in seeing pictures of your setup to compare to how things are done over here in the North East.  How many years out before you are hoping to see some decent fruit production?

After I do some thinking/reading I may start bouncing thoughts off of you  8)

[Leigh Family Farm]

If grape growing is a possibility for you, I would go volunteer at some of those wineries. Get to know them and learn from them. Particularly, see what types they need and how labor intensive it is to grow those varieties. If you know that you can grow 4 tons of grapes on an acre without a large headache, I would grow them and sell them to a winery. Making wine is difficult and if you get a bad harvest, your whole next year of sales stinks.

As an added value, ask the wineries what items they need besides grapes. Citrus? Fruits? Spices? Barrells? Because of the farm-to-table craze recently, I would offer to the wineries a chance to market a 50-mile bottle of wine where everything that went into the bottle was made/grown/produced within 50 miles.

[SwampDonkey]

Seems to me there has to be some research involved as suggested and hinted to by others. It's like selling wood, if you don't put up a product the market wants then your not going to sell it. Or, you can saw your own lumber all week long, all month, but you don't make nothing until it's sold. So, research  ...etc. ;)

[Jason_AliceMae Farms]

Definitely a lot of research like you said.  I am definitely not going to jump into anything blindly with both feet.

My focus now is enjoying hobbies and have them pay for themselves and pay off the mortgage debt ASAP. 
It is a journey and a lifestyle that I am focused on once I am there full time.  Money is not a driving factor for me long term but staying debt free is.

[SwampDonkey]

Debt free with farming plus hobbies won't compute. :D

[Mooseherder]

I dabble with wine making a little.
The cost of the fruit juice is minimal.  The last time I checked and added up my costs it was around 1.50 of ingredients per bottle to make, then About a dollar for the empty bottle and about 20 cents for the cork.  So you have less than 3 dollars per bottle.  You could probably get that to 2 dollars per bottle with some volume buying.  The equipment for any serious volume production is substantial.  Not so much in the making process.  It's the storage process that gets costly.  Wine barrels and cold storage rooms for aging will take some Capitol.

[Corley5]

  The grapes that I've planted are spaced 6 feet a part in rows 10 feet on center.  There's approximately 800 vines per acre.  If you've already got the land the main expenditure is the vines and trellis/training system.  There's labor in pruning, training and harvesting and they do require a spray program for pests.  Grapes don't need a lot of nutrients.  A vine that's a little stressed produces better quality grapes.  Soils should be amended according to soil tests.
  Oak barrels for aging are a really big investment and have a limited life span.  Plastic food grade tanks are widely used and fairly cheap.  Stainless would be ideal.  If you want some wood flavor add chips    Wineries around here are building well insulated pole barns with climate control systems for aging.  Eventually we want to add a winery.  We'll probably just get our license and have it made at another winery and put our labels on the bottles.

[Mooseherder]

I would love to attempt what you are doing Greg.

[red]

Funny you call it Income Stream . . . Only stream around here is Outgoing

[Corley5]

I would love to attempt what you are doing Greg.

It's an adventure that we hope will someday make $$$  ;D

[Jason_AliceMae Farms]

I fully expect the income stream to be more of a seasonal stream, when it rains there is some water but it quickly dries up and it is not something that you can depend on full-time    I would like to start the adventure with as much of the land paid for as possible and to control new debt as much as possible.

If I did do grapes I don't think I would get into the wine making aspect of it.  With all the wineries in my area I would rather find ways to work with them than as a competitor. 

[Corley5]

Most wineries don't look at more wineries as competition.  They look at it as more tasting rooms draw more customers for everyone     

[SwampDonkey]

I would tend to think it would be like Gregg says, not cut throat, but more like cooperation in that respect. Wouldn't doubt that there is some sort of meeting of the minds or cooperative than their are efforts to squash someone's business.

[Corley5]

Think wine trails.  The more wineries on the trail the better it is for all  8) 8)

[Corley5]

Grapes don't have to go only into wine.  American Spoon Foods in Petoskey hasn't had any grape products in their lineup until recently and even now they are very limited.  The reason being is they hadn't yet found a grape variety that made a product that lived up to their standard.  One of the first cold hardy grapes grown in this region was Valiant.  Someone took them a sample to make a small batch of jelly.  It worked very well for them.  They'll buy several tons of Valiants per year and pay more than the wineries in the area.  My first sale of grapes was to them last summer.  Thirty eight point one lbs at a dollar a lb  8) 

[Corley5]

  A winery in your area may even make wine for you in exchange for a portion of your crop.  You put your own labels on the bottle.  Several wineries in this area are putting bottles on their shelves with grapes and wine produced elsewhere until their own vines start producing.  Some of the cold hardy varieties like Marquette are coming out of Da UP.  A buddy sourced several tons from somewhere around Ironwood.  Some wineries have no intention of ever making their own wine.  To be licensed you do need minimal equipment to make wine on your premises.  If you're in an AVA (American Viticulture Area), wine produced from grapes grown own your estate can be labeled as "Estate Bottled" which brings a premium.  The neat thing about grapes and wine is your wine will be different from your neighbors even if you follow all the same procedures with the same grapes.  Subtle differences such solar aspect, even slight elevation differences, etc gives each vineyard a unique terroir    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terroir  I can't tell myself and a bottle of Boones Farm suites me just fine  8) 8)

[red oaks lumber]

how is "homesteader" differant than farmer? if you produce a "product "from the land weather for personal use or sale, your a farmer.

[SwampDonkey]

Probably something from a book or some romantic notion. ;D

[Leigh Family Farm]

how is "homesteader" differant than farmer? if you produce a "product "from the land weather for personal use or sale, your a farmer.

There isn't much difference in the true definitions of the two. Farmer is defined as someone who cultivates the land or farms. Homesteader is someone who settles on land that is exempt from certain taxes or regulations, such as the Homestead Act. In my opinion, a farmer is out to make a living growing crops or raising livestock and a homesteader is in it for the lifestyle and not focused on the making a living aspect.

[Jason_AliceMae Farms]

I agree with kilgrosh as far as differences/similarities.  Right or wrong a homesteader to me is more focused on a lifestyle and trying to be as self sufficient as possible.  A farmer may focus heavily on either livestock or crops for a profit while the homesteader would do both on a smaller scale for themselves and to sell a little but are not as worried so much about profits.  I see homesteaders as diversifying into many different things but at much smaller scales when compared to a farmer.

[mesquite buckeye]

Don't start out thinking it isn't a lot of work or you will fail. Most people don't recognize opportunity when it is wearing overalls and boots.

My parents were farmers for most of their lives, but lost all but a small portion of the farm during the 1980's. Then they started growing vegetables for the farmer's market on what land they had left to up the income per acre. This produced a marginal living, but it required working from early in the morning until late at night almost every day. I'm sure they were working 60-70hrs per week throughout the growing season. Then there was no income in the winter while trying to pay for propane and electricity. Without the social security money, they would have starved.

I'm not saying don't do it. Just don't go into it thinking it is some romantic bucolic novel. It is hard work and plenty of it.

The wine thing is a high risk, high skill, high starting/operating cost operation. This is not an enterprise to enter with high hopes and no training. The farms of America are littered with failed grape/winery dreams.

If you really think the grape thing is for you, study, learn, get some training and look at the economics before you start. You can save yourself a lot of heartache that way.

Good luck.

[Jason_AliceMae Farms]

Mesquite - I completely agree about the work.  I am making sure I don't have the blinders on along the way that is part of the reason I am still working full time in Virginia since it is stable work while I slowly get things lined up on the property.  I am at times overly conservative and that is one of the reasons I started this thread to get some other ideas and not put all my eggs in one basket (  pun not intended)

[red oaks lumber]

farming is a lifestyle also there are a couple "homesteaders" around here and quite frankly they are an embarrassment to anyone that raaises animals or crops or about any other thing else :(
  like mesquete said it not all its cracked up to be. there are more challanging days than not.
my operation is small scale with the main focus on lifestyle but, you still need to make a profit to keep things running. i have 9 differant revenue streams from my operation and all are in a niche market so i get a prieum for my products.
 

[Red Good]

Homesteader in Ok is a tax thing as well . My neighbow had a homestead exemption till he turned 65 ? and then it went to a double homestead exemption . Not sure of all the details but that's what I was told . For what thats worth . Red

[ryguy777]

im in the southern tier too and I want the same thing one day... if you haven't noticed theres a lot of people around here getting into brewing their own beer and micro brewery's springing up like wildfire. I think growing hops would be a money maker, im thinking about trying it myself this year.

[terry f]

  I agree homesteading is a lifestyle, and can have a negative meaning in some areas. To me, it means being self reliant, when you start trying to make a living at it, you became a farmer. Having everything paid for going in is a good idea. Working twice as hard, for half the money, might be fun for a while, but it will get old fast when the bill collector is at the door.

[Brad_S.]

im in the southern tier too and I want the same thing one day... if you haven't noticed theres a lot of people around here getting into brewing their own beer and micro brewery's springing up like wildfire. I think growing hops would be a money maker, im thinking about trying it myself this year.

I'm not too far from either of you and I was going to mention hops as well. I would love to be a "homesteader" too but I have a decent paying job that keeps me on the road 3 weeks of every month so getting work done on a homestead is out of the question.
If I did have time, hops would be a definate. So would "simulated wild grown" ginseng and apples. I go wine tasting every year with friends and have noticed that hard cider is becoming more popular at tastings along with the wines.

[thecfarm]

We grow hops on the horse run in. Just because they look nice and green. Them things do grow. Just make sure you keep track of the names of any your plants if doing a few varites. Them beer making guys like to know what they are buying.

[Dave Shepard]

It's an adventure that we hope will someday make $$$  ;D

Sounds like logging. :D

[SwampDonkey]

Life is a struggle for most of us, have to work for everything we get. When we do work, we like to get some satisfaction and a nice reward of some kind, hopefully greenbacks. ;D