Close the county road?

[stavebuyer]

I bought two tracts of land at a auction. The first tract is split by a dead end county road that runs the entire length of the tract which also runs along side this river. The access to the second tract I bought as well as two other tracts purchased by others lie beyond where the county road ends. Access to that ground is an existing farm road that is now a deeded and shared private road. The other tract owners want to put up a locked gate and have the county abandon the road at the beginning of the farm which is a couple hundred yards before you get to my road frontage tract in order to keep the trespassers, garbage dumpers, meth cookers et al from hanging out down here. My river tract all lies in the 100 year flood plain and no water or electric service is very close. It would be nice to have a county maintained road and a locked gate but I don't have that kind of pull . Its an either or situation and as of now all the adjoining owners favor the gate. Keep the county road and the known issues or put up the gate and deal with a longer shared road? Having owned more than a few "ROW tracts" and shared roads I know full well that I may be the only one maintaining the road.



 

The prior owners rented the crop land and never set foot on the farm. The river area was "anything goes". Camping, , shooting, drinking, broken bottles, beer cans, ATVs in the crops and teenagers in general doing whatever teens do on dead end roads at all hours especially on weekends.

We have done some major cleaning, put up cameras, and signs and it has slowed things down but still an abundance of traffic for a dead end road that people have no legitimate purpose for travelling.

[moodnacreek]

That's a tough one. My gut feeling is with the neighbors. As you know keeping the road passable will probably be done by one person. Some will help by telling you when and how. My son moved off a private road because of all the fighting. I have my sawmill on a former county road I now own. It was not always fun telling people they couldn't use it or dump there galvanized nails and treated lumber here. [if I could catch them]. Good luck.

[Stephen1]

Close it and gate it. If your near the entry you only have to maintain a small portion

[Walnut Beast]

Good luck with the County on giving up the dead end road and maintaining it 😂. They love to get the tax money but to get anything done 😂

[nativewolf]

I wouldn't do it.  First, in KY it is possible to petition to have it abandoned so legally you'll be fine (in VA VDOT owns all the right away for all roads outside cities and they won't do this if more than 1 owner) in terms of process, pretty simple even.  

The situation is all downside to me.  You don't live there.  You can't police it today or tomorrow, the gate does not matter.   Without a binding legal agreement with the other owners you'll have no road maintenance a gate getting shot up and some people still there.  

If there are no homeowners there and the property has had a history of community use that's tough to walk back but I'm sure that was reflected in the property value at auction.   It might deter kids from hanging out and drinking beer and smoking pot but I guess that wouldn't bother me too much, it is the riskier behavior that I'd be trying to stop and meth heads and poachers probably won't be as deterred.  Kids need somewhere to go and hangout, at least I did years ago.  

Maybe lease the area/land to a reputable hunt club on condition of them policing it to keep folks off.  Just an idea but a gate seems to me to be a solution that would just minimize the least troublesome folks and shift more work onto you.  You've already made a decision to pullback and relax and I can't see having to maintain quite a bit of road being relaxing.  

[Sedgehammer]

Not even a question. Locked gate.....

[Walnut Beast]

Not even a question. Locked gate.....

If the county owns the road that could be a problem 

[stavebuyer]

Not even a question. Locked gate.....

If the county owns the road that could be a problem

There is a procedure in KY to formally and legally close the road; if the affected landowners petition for it, it is basically a done deal. Probably just as many miles of "old abandoned county roads" as there are actual county maintained roads. At one time there were literally thousands of 5-10-15 acre isolated homesteads with no water/power/phone lines run to them. They were abandoned in the 1930s as well as the "roads" they used to access them twice a year. The "roads" were 2 wheel wagon tracks deeply eroded into fenced and tree lined hillsides like a tunnel with no way to drain the runoff. The county is more than happy to get rid of them and to replace them with modern developer built subdivision roads at the edge of town.

[thecfarm]

I live on a road like that. Well it's not rutted down, where I live, but the road use to go to the top hill. Really only one car wide on top of the hill. There was a lot of shorts cuts around here. Horse and wagon, save 2 miles is a lot of time.
In the winter time, the families on top of the hill, would go right through the woods to town. They would use a sled pulled by horses. That saved about 5 miles, one way. It was so rough, rocks and uneven, could not be used in the summer time.

[Sedgehammer]

I live on a road exactly like this. 6 other owners. I do all the maintaining to our drive, which is in about the middle and a little further, as 2 neighbors have helped out financially. 1 neighbor i can tell can't, but he's cool, so it's good. 3 others who use to complain about the road don't do jack and and one of them is the one of the prime reason for the poor condition. We used to have people driving 50, 60 mph down it. Rocks flying everywhere. I fixed that. 2 really, really nice and abrupt 'safety' bumps. Stopped 90% of the 'let's drive down this road' people. The 1 guy that was the main idiot, he drove in the ditch to get around the 'safety' bumps one time. He don't do that anymore..... ;D It's pretty nice now. I brought in 30 loads of millings before we sold our trucking business. People drive on it slow and it should last for a long time. 
Oh, yeah, the 3 people that refuse to help out with any part of it, are the only ones to have complained about the 'safety' bumps...... Go figure. With that said, locked gate all the way baby.... 

[Southside]

If it were mine I would gate it. Let the low lifes find another easy access place to hang out. A few well placed "Bio-Secure area. Do not enter without a permit" signs will make folks think before they jump a gate. 

[Walnut Beast]

If it were mine I would gate it. Let the low lifes find another easy access place to hang out. A few well placed "Bio-Secure area. Do not enter without a permit" signs will make folks think before they jump a gate.

[Walnut Beast]

I agree with everyone on putting up a gate. It might not stop everyone but it will make a big difference and people won't be able to drive in. You can also have signs like I posted. Couldn't figure out how to turn pic yet. 

[farmfromkansas]

If you put up a gate, be sure it is built from heavy stuff.  Have seen where some big 4x4 driver just pushed over a gate, post and all. I would make the post from 6" pipe, dig the hole 5' deep, and put concrete around it.

[btulloh]

I've had to deal with this sort of thing, but on MY roads, not county roads.  It didn't include the difficulty of multiple land owners and county roads.  Over time the benefits paid off and the trespassers dwindled down close to zero.  

Doing something is much better than doing nothing.  Most of the traffic and nonsense comes from the same people or groups of people.  When someone starts controlling access or discouraging them from using the road and property, the word gets around and a lot of those people just stop coming.  A few of them just don't care and keep coming, but they'll stop, or slow down at least, when it becomes clear that someone is keeping an eye on things.  

Good luck with it.  It's an annoying problem.

[A-z farmer]

I agree with everyone about the heavy duty gate braced with extra posts .We find a gate locked in front of a gate less gate confuses most non farming people too .Best to you on securing your property stavebuyer.

[mike_belben]

The flip side is if its a really well loved hangout a gate just creates a bypass trail or new ways being cut into it.  You wont know until you put one up. 


The fieldstone looks good in that one pic.  Is the whole place covered in weathered rock?

[stavebuyer]

The flip side is if its a really well loved hangout a gate just creates a bypass trail or new ways being cut into it.  You wont know until you put one up.


The fieldstone looks good in that one pic.  Is the whole place covered in weathered rock?

No rock except in the river bed, most of the rest of the place is about 4' of Nolin silt loam on top of clay. The topography is such if you close the road about the only way in is to walk or float. Yeah a determined 4 wheeler could cut half a dozen pasture fences but nothing there is that special or rare to make it worth that kind of effort. Not like its the only fishing hole in the county. It is a nice spot but I think the fact that is so handy to drive right to river and nobody bothered them if they did is the attraction. So now its a battle of will and choice of weapon(s).

[Walnut Beast]

The flip side is if its a really well loved hangout a gate just creates a bypass trail or new ways being cut into it.  You wont know until you put one up.


The fieldstone looks good in that one pic.  Is the whole place covered in weathered rock?

No rock except in the river bed, most of the rest of the place is about 4' of Nolin silt loam on top of clay. The topography is such if you close the road about the only way in is to walk or float. Yeah a determined 4 wheeler could cut half a dozen pasture fences but nothing there is that special or rare to make it worth that kind of effort. Not like its the only fishing hole in the county. It is a nice spot but I think the fact that is so handy to drive right to river and nobody bothered them if they did is the attraction. So now its a battle of will and choice of weapon(s).

You got some nice Walnut trees on your place 😊

[Southside]

most of the rest of the place is about 4' of Nolin silt loam on top of clay

River bottom / flood plain ground? Not fair!!!  ;D

[stavebuyer]

most of the rest of the place is about 4' of Nolin silt loam on top of clay

River bottom / flood plain ground? Not fair!!!  ;D

What ain't smallmouth water is oversize walnuts or some of the finest crop ground in the state. My names been on lots of deeds in several states but this one I wont let go of .

[mike_belben]

If you dont mind my asking... Howd you get started in buying land, what do you typically do with the land you buy, and has it been a profitable/satisfying venture?

[stavebuyer]

If you dont mind my asking... Howd you get started in buying land, what do you typically do with the land you buy, and has it been a profitable/satisfying venture?

Mike,
I bought my first farm when I was still in the Army in 1980. Prime Rate was 18% and I bought 40 acres in the Blue Ridge Mtns of Nelson County, VA. I put 25% down(my re-up bonus and life savings at the time) and the owners financed the rest at 10%.
It was a mtn cove in the middle of nowhere and I loved it. Wasn't practical ...almost 40 mile drive to Charlottesville for work and groceries. I had some dozer work done, put in a well and septic but never did build. Sold it at a profit a few years down the road.
Everyone looks for the timber to pay for the ground. Out of 20 some farms I lucked into one that did but with the advent of the internet those days are long gone. I have bought and sold many for more than I paid and got what timber was there for free plus a profit for cleaning up old fields and doing some road work and bush hogging. The "money" farms aren't the 100% all big timber as they usually bring a premium. Its the no house or unlivable house with some neglected pasture and some overlooked trees in the drains that can still be bought and sold. Everyone wants and many can afford 50 acres undeveloped to hunt on. Nobody really wants a 100 acre clear cut. 50 acres half open and half wooded, food plot, tower stand and a good haircut of the timber but leave some untouched or improved areas for aesthetic appeal. You can't quit your day job as it takes a lot of capital to play to get started but those dollars will grow faster than the interest you are paying.
If you look at the wealth of most farmers and sawmill owners it was created by the land they held onto. They made a living farming and sawing but the land they held onto along they way made them wealthy.
If I could have held all I bought along the way I could start a foundation Mostly I ended up trading to get the funds for the next deal as I traded more in marginal farms with trees than crop ground that would produce annual income.. Once you cut the timber its a long wait until the next payday.
Some how, some way you have to make more than you spend to live. That is tough to do but has to happen. Then you invest and and never touch but keep re-investing your investment income.
I know from your previous posts that your not much into credit. You buy a small farm with trees and allocate a timber basis. Cut the trees and deplete the basis. You have cash with no taxes. Use those proceeds to buy a dozer which you expense depreciate off your day job taxes and get your day job taxes refunded to you use those funds to improve the value of your farm which you then sell a year down the road and those gains are taxed at the lower capital gains rate and next thing you know you have enough in your checking account to go to a Saturday morning auction.

[mike_belben]

Thanks for the great response.  We are definitely cut from the same cloth.  

[mike_belben]

Overall at time of sale,  have you found it more advantageous for you to pocket the best timber or to preserve it and demand a premium from the next owner?   Is it worth more on the truck or left on the stump?

Is a stumped, seeded field worth more than a forest of the same size?  How much value does pasture fence add?

[Walnut Beast]

If you dont mind my asking... Howd you get started in buying land, what do you typically do with the land you buy, and has it been a profitable/satisfying venture?

Mike,
I bought my first farm when I was still in the Army in 1980. Prime Rate was 18% and I bought 40 acres in the Blue Ridge Mtns of Nelson County, VA. I put 25% down(my re-up bonus and life savings at the time) and the owners financed the rest at 10%.
It was a mtn cove in the middle of nowhere and I loved it. Wasn't practical ...almost 40 mile drive to Charlottesville for work and groceries. I had some dozer work done, put in a well and septic but never did build. Sold it at a profit a few years down the road.
Everyone looks for the timber to pay for the ground. Out of 20 some farms I lucked into one that did but with the advent of the internet those days are long gone. I have bought and sold many for more than I paid and got what timber was there for free plus a profit for cleaning up old fields and doing some road work and bush hogging. The "money" farms aren't the 100% all big timber as they usually bring a premium. Its the no house or unlivable house with some neglected pasture and some overlooked trees in the drains that can still be bought and sold. Everyone wants and many can afford 50 acres undeveloped to hunt on. Nobody really wants a 100 acre clear cut. 50 acres half open and half wooded, food plot, tower stand and a good haircut of the timber but leave some untouched or improved areas for aesthetic appeal. You can't quit your day job as it takes a lot of capital to play to get started but those dollars will grow faster than the interest you are paying.
If you look at the wealth of most farmers and sawmill owners it was created by the land they held onto. They made a living farming and sawing but the land they held onto along they way made them wealthy.
If I could have held all I bought along the way I could start a foundation Mostly I ended up trading to get the funds for the next deal as I traded more in marginal farms with trees than crop ground that would produce annual income.. Once you cut the timber its a long wait until the next payday.
Some how, some way you have to make more than you spend to live. That is tough to do but has to happen. Then you invest and and never touch but keep re-investing your investment income.
I know from your previous posts that your not much into credit. You buy a small farm with trees and allocate a timber basis. Cut the trees and deplete the basis. You have cash with no taxes. Use those proceeds to buy a dozer which you expense depreciate off your day job taxes and get your day job taxes refunded to you use those funds to improve the value of your farm which you then sell a year down the road and those gains are taxed at the lower capital gains rate and next thing you know you have enough in your checking account to go to a Saturday morning auction.

Have you ever done a 1099 and rolled it into another property

[stavebuyer]

Overall at time of sale,  have you found it more advantageous for you to pocket the best timber or to preserve it and demand a premium from the next owner?   Is it worth more on the truck or left on the stump?

Is a stumped, seeded field worth more than a forest of the same size?  How much value does pasture fence add?

Open ground is generally worth more than woodlands unless its mature timber ready to cut. Cutting timber vs not is a little trickier. A tract that's all woods and recently logged is the lowest price per acre. Woods with a closed canopy looks and brings pretty much the same as decent timber even if there is little ready to cut. Exceptional timber is best advertised and sold standing with the land. I have yet to see a single 8000' per acre woods bring less than timber minus cut over ground. Those  tend to get bought by large mills in a bidding war and the seller is the winner. Fencing won't return the expense. Nice driveway and gated entrance will.

[mike_belben]

Thank you @stavebuyer 

My equipment is old and slow but its paid for and i can keep it running pretty well.  The only thing im really missing is an excavator to stump with.

The only forest type in my reach is a high graded choked out twizzler patch that needs extensive PCT... Nearly every woods ive been in looks like this. Dark and dense, hardly any green on the floor.

all i can really do is eliminate the stuff that'll never make a sawlog.  I love to leave a place better than i found it but i dont know if the market rewards for acreage that WILL EVENTUALLY become prime timber again.. Or if its just working for free. Cutting a 70ft arrow straight oak to get a 13" DIB buttlog is a crime i refuse to commit.

If theres a pocket without one good tree to retain then i will cut them all and let it bush in like a shelterwood.  The critters love it, but do the buyers?

I like doing ponds and rockwalls.  I think those things would let me thin pretty heavily and still end up with prime home sites. 





This pond is a place i high graded, but it came out exactly as the customer wanted. Deer in there every morning and it keeps fish overwinter.

[stavebuyer]

Highest use. A small tract that is prime for growing a house lot or land at an interstate ramp is kind of pointless to manage as a productive forest when the odds are 1000-1 it will be developed/divided/built on before its ever logged. A developer would rather have a field of weeds with no stumps to grub as they would land to clear, a homeowner wants a park with scattered trees in back yard(like your fish pond picture), and a deer hunter may want a brushy woods with few closed canopy areas to put a stand in. None of those types have much interest in logs or logging. Nobody likes tops you can't wade through and stumps aren't much better. For a backyard a brushy maple is an asset and 100' tall 14" dbh no branches white oak is a liability that you should feel no guilt in cutting stave log out of, its not a forest, its a backyard.

If you are buying land with the intent to sell as a general rule I would say if you are going to log you would be wise to hold the land long enough after logging for the tops to rot and the canopy to close. Inflation/appreciation will provide a better return versus the price you get for recently logged over ground. A five acre house lot you will get paid to clean up a house site and I would put the for sale on it as soon as the annual ryegrass seed sprouts behind the dozer work.

[Banjo picker]

Nice read folks.  I am enjoying reading it.  I would never make in that line of business though.  I still lament the land we have sold and even land I didn't buy.  I am a hoarder I guess.  There is a tract behind me right now that is up for sale, but they have sold the timber, that's still to be cut.  So unless the price comes way down....I wouldn't even consider it.  Unless the present owner grants an easement.... it will be landlocked with no access.  Banjo

[mike_belben]

Youre right.. Theres nothing wrong with cutting off small prime timber from land thats being converted..   Those nice straight small trees i wont cut are on my place that i intend to grow.  I cant stand to cut them yet. 

At what price per acre do you start calling something a deal?  I am familiar the going rates on internet ads but no idea what auction bidders value at.  Ive never seen the mythical grand an acre even on a clearcut.  2grand an acre is very rare for junky land.. More like $2500-5k and up into the dream on ranges.  The exodus from cities created by covid is making our asking prices jump to target northern refugees and their 401k. Im feeling the pressure to get my name on more deeds even though im not prepared.

[gspren]

In my area the Amish sort of set the value whether they buy it or not. Highest prices for land with a mix of crop, pasture, and woods between 10-50 acres total. The Amish will buy bigger or smaller properties but that's what is selling best now, when milk prices were better they looked for bigger with more pasture. 

[stavebuyer]

Youre right.. Theres nothing wrong with cutting off small prime timber from land thats being converted..   Those nice straight small trees i wont cut are on my place that i intend to grow.  I cant stand to cut them yet.

At what price per acre do you start calling something a deal?  I am familiar the going rates on internet ads but no idea what auction bidders value at.  Ive never seen the mythical grand an acre even on a clearcut.  2grand an acre is very rare for junky land.. More like $2500-5k and up into the dream on ranges.  The exodus from cities created by covid is making our asking prices jump to target northern refugees and their 401k. Im feeling the pressure to get my name on more deeds even though im not prepared."

Price per acre is very localized. Land I bought for $250 an acre in 1990 is commanding 3K/acre now. Still possible to buy large tracts in the Cumberland plateau and hills of east Ky for 1000 per acre in larger parcels. TN with its no income tax always brings more than right across the border in KY.  But 5k an acre can be a better deal than 1k. Pays to shop and watch even if you aren't in a position to buy today. Watch and learn. Auction day when fur is flying you gotta know.

[Walnut Beast]

Not only improving roads and harvesting timber are the only ways that can bring a good return when selling. If a little time is taken and the land is a candidate to be subdivided that can be way more profitable and can put you in a position to keep the remaining land if you choose. Different areas different rules. Usually on smaller parcel dividing where a engineer is not required and just surveying and approval is needed by zoning is not complicated. It might require going to the county commission board and giving your pitch with plan. All adjoining property owners notified. Be prepared if a property owner or owners show up to protest your proposed plan. 

[mike_belben]

I looked at a parcel tonight up on a private ridgetop one lane, dead end gravel road.   Parcel is a west facing slope and one fairly steep pitch of a single plane like a ski slope.  Has been logged back when subdivided but has a lot of tall, straight mature timber on it again, plenty of 4SC buttlogs and small staves above those.  skid trails are faint and bushed in.  There should be some fieldstone too judging by the region and steepness. My dozer could walk it all no problem. My truck and trailer can get in and out and pull them to the mills i know.  Utilities on the road.  No dealbreakers yet.

It would be an absolute killer lot for an underground house with one glass wall facing the westbound sunset and hilltops every day, absolutely a legit "view lot."

Extremely private layout despite having some neighbors.  Classy isolated area,  not trashy.  From the road all anyone would see is that a driveway goes up and then over.

5AC asking $14k, bank owned.  Seems pretty much unrestricted from some people i talked to.  Thinkin gonna offer $10k if i can talk the wife into an investment.  Make it our getaway camp for the child rearing years then sell or use as collateral.  It would be good practice for building our forever home.

[Walnut Beast]

How far is it from a town and can you drill a water well

[stavebuyer]

I looked at a parcel tonight up on a private ridgetop one lane, dead end gravel road.   Parcel is a west facing slope and one fairly steep pitch of a single plane like a ski slope.  Has been logged back when subdivided but has a lot of tall, straight mature timber on it again, plenty of 4SC buttlogs and small staves above those.  skid trails are faint and bushed in.  There should be some fieldstone too judging by the region and steepness. My dozer could walk it all no problem. My truck and trailer can get in and out and pull them to the mills i know.  Utilities on the road.  No dealbreakers yet.

It would be an absolute killer lot for an underground house with one glass wall facing the westbound sunset and hilltops every day, absolutely a legit "view lot."

Extremely private layout despite having some neighbors.  Classy isolated area,  not trashy.  From the road all anyone would see is that a driveway goes up and then over.

5AC asking $14k, bank owned.  Seems pretty much unrestricted from some people i talked to.  Thinkin gonna offer $10k if i can talk the wife into an investment.  Make it our getaway camp for the child rearing years then sell or use as collateral.  It would be good practice for building our forever home.

Sounds interesting and price is attractive if it is indeed buildable. Verify the status of the road(deeded ROW etc., water/electric and septic. I doubt it has sewer and most places septic systems have gotten more expensive and restrictive than they used to be. If you have to haul water and the health department won't give the electric company a release because the ground won't perc it would sure change the outlook. "Contingent upon" wording can be your friend. 

[thecfarm]

Electricity? Power was put in here back in 1986. I think it cost $150,000 back than, no more than 2 miles.
Cost me $5000 just for 500 feet to get power from the road to my house. If I would of just called them in 1999,and just got a work permit number from them, the others who pay for power would of paid for it, But I called them in 2000 and had to pay for it. Dollar late, dollar short, as always.

[Walnut Beast]

To get electricity from the county road 1/2 mile in to my place was 15k in 2008 from the electric company. It's gone way up since then

[mike_belben]

Our soil holds water better than a homer bucket, if you ask me it dont perc at all... Heaven forbid you have flat ground.. The clay just swells and absorbs it then dries in 4 months!  Mole holes is the only drainage youll get.  But in winter water floods up out of them in springs.  Not joking at all.  Its why theres so many caves in TN.  Rain drainage boring out the sandstone.

Electric is on the road and i will bet city water is too.  I have to do some dilligence as its over the line into the next county but where i live the first 750 feet of electric hookup is free including poles. Gas main connection is like $30.. They trench it and backfill.  Water connection may be free also, ive never had that done.  Have to call each utility.

I didnt move here randomly, trust me.  Years of research and road trips.

[mike_belben]

How far is it from a town and can you drill a water well

Wells are rare here, and the allure of this place is that it is as far from civilization as you can get.  Those few living here want precisely that.  Its not working class, its disappear class. 
  Lots in this division are owned by nonresidents and have paid $40 to 100k.  Even at 14k itll be the cheapest a lot has ever sold for in this site, ever. 

[Walnut Beast]

Mike it sounds good. With your intentions to use it then sell it later. The price is right.  For instance it's 30k an acre for like 3 acre parcels out in the county where I'm at. Different areas different prices. 

[Walnut Beast]

Our soil holds water better than a homer bucket, if you ask me it dont perc at all... Heaven forbid you have flat ground.. The clay just swells and absorbs it then dries in 4 months!  Mole holes is the only drainage youll get.  But in winter water floods up out of them in springs.  Not joking at all.  Its why theres so many caves in TN.  Rain drainage boring out the sandstone.

Electric is on the road and i will bet city water is too.  I have to do some dilligence as its over the line into the next county but where i live the first 750 feet of electric hookup is free including poles. Gas main connection is like $30.. They trench it and backfill.  Water connection may be free also, ive never had that done.  Have to call each utility.

I didnt move here randomly, trust me.  Years of research and road trips.

Will they let you do a lagoon if a perc test is a no go

[Southside]

Look into infiltrators if perk is a problem. You need more units per bedroom in heavy clay vs sand but it gives you the option of not having to build a raised system and buy all the stone that comes with them. If you can do the dirt work they are a cheaper way to go. 

[Walnut Beast]

Look into infiltrators if perk is a problem. You need more units per bedroom in heavy clay vs sand but it gives you the option of not having to build a raised system and buy all the stone that comes with them. If you can do the dirt work they are a cheaper way to go.

Good call 👍

[mike_belben]

Well, its not mine yet so im not gonna get too far ahead of myself. Have some research to do and then see if its what the Lord wants for us.  If its His will then it'll be done, and if it isnt then i dont want it.

[reride82]

Mike,

I do perc tests/soil tests and septic designs for part of my job. Try the NRCS/Web soil survey to get a feel for the soil in the area. Clay is bad and sand is great. It partially comes down to the reviewing authority, your local sanitarian. Background nitrates, soil types, distance to surface water and groundwater are functions of the calculations as well. Septic can really ramp up the price of building ranging from $4k-$30k depending on the system. If there is a public water system available, you won't have to worry about well placement or setbacks from the well either. Montana is one of the strictest for groundwater contamination, so our septic designs have really ramped up recently but I'm not sure about your area.

Levi

[DMax82]

Stavebuyer, that is a lovely piece of property! 

Mike, I'm not sure where in Middle TN you are, but I can relate a recent experience that may be of interest to you. My dad and I bought 64 acres on the Lower Plateau that had just been mostly clearcut. They were selling as two parcels - nice acres with road frontage and mature hardwoods that they were asking $78,500 for. Then 55 acres that was almost totally clearcut that they were asking $78,500 for. We gave $132,500 for all of it, so a touch over two grand an acre.  They pulled a ton of lumber off that property - I am building a house next door and watched them bring out everything from saw logs to pulp wood. 

The left a massive mess - stumps galore and tons of tree tops. The sellers agent told me he could have it cleaned and graded for $1000-1500 an acre. I was more curious than interested as we aren't looking to do anything with the back part of the land yet. 

FWIW they originally bought the 90 acre tract for $230,000 with timber on it. That was an unlisted sale though. They sold off three other parcels before we bought ours. The tract is in a great location with lots of future development opportunities. In the short term I will create four small (1.5 acre) lots and build houses on them. 

Attached is a shot of the layout, since my description probably didn't make much sense. The triangle is the nine acres.