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Mini excavator in woods and at the landing

Started by Philbo, January 01, 2015, 09:43:16 PM

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Philbo

My partner and I operate a small production logging and sawing business.  We do mostly selective cutting (crop tree release type of management) and/or TSI work.  The timber we cut is mostly hardwoods (sometimes hemlock/white pine) on pretty steep ground, and we use draft horses to skid down to an existing logging road (in most cases.) In the past we've either used the horses to complete the skid to the landing or sometimes will use a 60hp 4wd tractor with Fransgard winch off the back.  We're getting to the point where sometimes the skids to the landing are too long for the horses to be efficient and productive and it can wear them out prematurely skidding on somewhat flat land back and forth.  The tractor works ok, but is slow only dragging 1 or 2 logs at a time from winch.  We're trying to up production and efficiency but aren't interested in any machinery that has a bigger footprint than the tractor already does.  Having a machine that can be flexible and pay for itself in a variety of ways is also important.  This isn't the only way we make our $$, but are trying to improve this side of the business.

We have been thinking about adding a mini ex into the mix and also building a small trailer that could go either behind the tractor or attached to ball fabricated onto the mini's push blade.  Hydraulic thumb at the least would be a requirement, but ideally a quick attach Valby style grapple/rotator combo would be the best for log loading.  Is there a way to make a relatively quick attach setup between bucket/thumb and a log grapple/rotator?

Ideally we could still skid with horses down to road, then load logs onto small trailer with ex and also load truck at landing with it easier/faster than pallet forks on FEL of tractor.  Forks work, but it's tedious and if you're not careful you can make a mess of log loading pretty easily.  Ex would obviously be handy at the landing for quick sorting, which is a big plus.

I saw this video recently and hadn't realized that this setup was even possible in the woods...I also wonder what kind of premature wear (if any) towing a trailer like that loaded with logs has on the excavator and it's drive motor/undercarriage.

http://youtu.be/iMN-NXcgQDg

Does anybody small scale around here do this kind of thing?  I have a 1 ton dually and access to a 14k gooseneck trailer w/ brakes to haul with.  Nothing bigger than what can safely fit in those parameters.  To me that means a 4-5 ton mini ex.  Takeuchi 135 or 145 looks pretty appealing and they are known to be good values and tough machines.

Does anybody have experience with what size timber they can safely lift when loading a truck? (probably lifting about 8-10 ft off ground level)  We normally don't cut too much huge timber.  Most of what we deal with is 20" diameter and under and we normally are cutting 8'-12' logs, but sometimes up to 16'. 

My main question aside from the logistics of the production would be, how will this type of machine hold up with the woods on a relatively clear trail?  Not a lot of slash, not too many rocks on skid road normally, not always 100% flat though either, normally always muddy especially this time of year.

Thanks for any insight and advice.  I know that this is a little out of the scale of most of you guys around here, but I figured some folks would have something to say about it.

Lazy logger

Hello Philbo, I use a 5 ton bobcat on my landing. It's handy there, but I don't think I would use it for hauling. Other than being really slow I think it would be hard on the drive motors and tracks. Just my thoughts.
I know the voices in my head aren't real,but sometimes their ideas are just absolutely awesome!

coxy

the drives would not last long  but if you were just moving it a little ways and then hook it to your tractor that would work good  ;D

BargeMonkey

 Why not find a forwarder trailer for the tractor ? A few guys have them on here and they look to be the way to go on semi firm and flatter ground. I have a 121-3 Kubota excavator, with a thumb and coupler. Handy machine, but the rubber tracks and small drive motors wouldnt handle what you wanna do for long. Also, a small excavator cab isnt to tough, 1 small limb and your covered in glass if your lucky. A mini will pick smaller logs, but a decent 20" 16' oak will stand it on its nose. If you had a trailer behind the tractor and just loaded it that might work.

Philbo

Thanks for replies fellas.

I can see how hauling even a small trailer of logs with the mini could put a lot of wear on it.  Trailer behind the tractor and load it with mini would be the game plan in this case, then.

BargeMonkey,

A forwarding trailer has definitely come up in our conversations on the matter...it was the first thing we thought about, actually.  That would be the ultimate piece of equipment for this specific job, but we really can't afford to pay that much (likely about the same as a used mini ex) for a single use piece of equipment.  All it can do is be towed and load logs, which is huge, but a mini ex has a lot more options for producing income.  We aren't in the woods cutting and skidding non-stop enough to justify that kind of single use expense at this point, as much as it makes sense.  Appreciate the comment. Also, we would likely be looking for open cab excavator.

20" 16' oak would likely be bigger than what we deal with 99% of the time, just for reference.

BargeMonkey

 No one said you had to spend huge bucks for a trailer. If you watch the paper, or ask a few of these lake state guys someone will know where a dray is for cheap money. Nothing wrong with loading with a mini, personally if your roughing roads in and just loading logs a hydraulic thumb and bucket will do all you want. I understand the idea behind utilization, we squeeze every once out of the equipment we have. We got 1100hrs out of our tracks, and that was using it with care, no chewing and avoiding rocks, if you could find one with steel, and you planned on using it most of the time in the woods i would go that way. Have you ever taken a ride on a greasy hill with rubber tracks ? Also, do not fall prey to the "grey market" scheme on some of the mini excavators, a few of them are ok but alot of them you cant get parts for, certain things are odd, ive seen 2 of them locally and 1 now sits for scrap because of pump troubles.

Ohio_Bill

I added a used fwd trailer to my operation this year . Sounds like I am doing about the same thing as you . Some logging and sawing . I use the trailer as a fwd behind my 60 hp tractor  and also pull with the log truck and load the truck . One of the most helpful uses is moving slabs .

 



 
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

barbender

Philbo, you know your operation best, but from what you are describing, a forwarding trailer does sound like the ticket.
Too many irons in the fire

Philbo

Good replies by all!

Ohio_Bill that forwarding trailer looks great...and it's a dump! Very cool.  If I could find one like that, then it would be a great setup.  I'm guessing you have a gas powered motor that runs the grapple hydraulics if you are using it behind a log truck as well as behind tractor?  Pintle hitch?  Does it have brakes on it, and if so what type?

How much are used trailers like these going for in different areas?  They seem to come up so rarely on used market that I don't really know their value.

Thanks again fellas

Ohio_Bill

The loader is anderson and the trailer is a 14000 gvw with electric  brakes and pental hitch.11hp honda engine.it has been used a lot by the previous owner for hauling grade logs and firewood logs , he made his living with it .Mine was sold originally  by Brownwood Sales
In Columbus  Ohio.
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

Farmer Todd

I was thinking the same thing. But running two trailers load one as the tractor takes the loaded one out. We have an old gafner loader it works good but not much of a reach  then put it on the back of a 6600 ford and it s long. Lot more reach with the mini excavator.

Puffergas

The self loading trailer will do the job.



 

But they can be a dead pull in the woods but OK on a solid skid road. On a safety note; notice on the above trailer the operator (Dad) is close to the ground so when loading a tall truck the log could slip and hit the operator ..!!  :( and it's a bit hard to see the logs up high. But not too big of a problem on low trailers/loads.



 

This one has run off the tractor hydraulics but the pressure can be on the low side so that could be a problem. I did have it working with a 6.5Hp plus 2 stage splitter pump. It was a bit slow but it would pick up a healthy log. Too slow for production though.

:new_year:
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

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