I have the guides mounted on my mill now and am ready to start the guards for the blade. What works well and what doesn't? I see many people use tandem axle trailer fenders by extending their length. Are they strong enough if a blade breaks? Do you close in the back, what about doors on the front? Or are you ahead to make them out of 14 gauge steel if so what bracing or framing is required on the inside? I may mount my fuel tank on top of the guard is this a good idea? All help and suggestions would be appreciated and photos are welcomed. Thank you!!!!
Hogfarmer, I've seen broken blades come spiraling 3 ro 4 feet out of a commercially manufactured shroud and throw pieces of broken blade 20 ft out of the sawdust chute. There is no doubt in my mind that the entire area where the spinning blade is, should be encapsulated in a continous sheet of metal, sturdy enough to stop the continual attack a broken blade will make upon it when hung up on a belt, tire or spinning axle.
I have a Thomas Bandsaw.You can see how they do the guards.
www.thomasbandsawmills.com But proably any of the others manual will show it too.These guards swing up so you can get at the blade on both sides if needed.There is a T-handle that comes off the top that goes into the side when I have to lift it up.I would not want anything on top of these if it was me.There's not really much of a support inside.Don't really need much.Just enough to keep it steady.I've had blades come off a few times and these guards did what they were suppose to do.
Thanks guys, keep them coming and I will try to incorporate as many good ideas into my design as I can. My primary goal is safety.
When I first saw the plywood doors on Timber Harvesters, I thought "That sure looks chintzy". The saw I had at the time (Breezewood) had expanded metal grating that I thought looked 'cool'. It was only after I threw a blade inadvertently hitting a knot on gig back that I saw the wisdom of the TH design. Kicking a blade on the TH messes up the set, but the blade lives to fight again another day. The Breezewood metal stripped the teeth off blades that hit the metal guards.
Speaking for myself, I have never had a blade or pieces thrown from the shroud. I've had busted blades peek a foot or two out the dust exhaust port, but the exhaust is angled down to the ground and out of harms way even if it were to completely exit the shroud. A violent break may pop the doors off and scare the bejebbers out of customers, but that seems to exhaust the kinetic energy of the blade in the process and it still stays in the shroud.
If I were building a saw, I would shroud the back and sides in steel and allow for kicking blades with a design that will not destroy the blade in the process. Along with rolling a log off the backside of the mill and sawing your posts, kicking your blade off on occasion will happen to every sawyer.
If i ever get it running and chuck a blade i'll let you know how it works.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/mill1_3-2-06.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13138/Pict0009.JPG)
Quote from: RichlandSawyer on March 19, 2006, 10:33:37 PM
If i ever get it running and chuck a blade i'll let you know how it works.
Ditto. Seems like this project will NEVER end. I'm going with aluminum. The aluminum guards are not bolted down in these photos. I've got a blade on and spun her for a while and so far so good. Even over reved it with the governor and it stayed together just fine 8)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12258/guards%20down%20xat.jpg)
I threw a blade with no guards on the first cut I made. The blade jumped off, spun on the bed of the mill for a second then some teeth hooked up and threw it violently against the garage wall cutting about a 1/4 inch of chipboard off in the process.
The blade was missing 3 teeth afterwords ;D
what did your drawers look like afterwards :)
the thought of a band going nuts scares the crap out of me, i sliced myself up pretty good just uncoiling my first band. I don't ever want to see what one will do being thrown off under power
I've since lost the same band 3 more times in the process of setting up. These have all been with the covers on the mill. With the covers on it and out of a cut it wangs around in there for a bit and scratches the aluminum up. In a cut the blade just seems to stop and very little excitement.
I have considered making a slotted wooden block for the top of the blade to ride in to try and grab the blade better if it comes off.
Has anyone mounted a battery or fuel tank on top of the guard. I am considering doing this to kind of balance out the weight of the engine and it would be handy and out of the way.
My lube tank is mounted on top of the blade guards. I used a "tandem axle fender" for the guard and it is supported by 1" heavy box tubing. I don't think a small battery or fuel tank would be any issue.
Wudman
This thread has been inactive for a while I would like to see more of how guards have been made and installed.
This is a very good thread on an important subject.
Just plywood and 2 x 6 for my guards.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/DSC02482.JPG)
You guys are doing some nice dabbing fabbing. Thanks for the pics. :)
One inch square tube on three sides (top/bottom/outside edge) on both the front and back. Top and sides and bottom are heavy pre-formed steel (14g or so) and an aluminum front panel. No space for a back panel. A little piece of plastic barrel as a deflector.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_First_Log_1.jpg)
I never did post a picture.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10436/log%20dog1thecfarm.jpg)
You can see the t handle that I mentioned,it's right above the spoke of the band wheel at 12 o'clock. The t handle is holding up the guide. Take it out and it threads into a nut on top of the guard to keep it in place.
I went cheap route, now after 3 winters outside it's time to redo. Made the mistake of using 8mm luan. Would like to go alum. but lots of $. Prob use 1/4 ext plywood this time. Maybe try harder to get covered up next time. Need to watch weight cause putting 25# bigger motor and double belt pulley system on. Kind of sadening when the old luan looks like a grenade went off the way it came apart.(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/33751/IMG_0068.jpg)
Quote from: MikeZ on February 28, 2016, 09:01:27 PM
I went cheap route, now after 3 winters outside it's time to redo. Made the mistake of using 8mm luan. Would like to go alum. but lots of $. Prob use 1/4 ext plywood this time. Maybe try harder to get covered up next time. Need to watch weight cause putting 25# bigger motor and double belt pulley system on. Kind of sadening when the old luan looks like a grenade went off the way it came apart.(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/33751/IMG_0068.jpg)
MikeZ,
Is that a real propane tank for running your engine, or are you using it as a lube tank? If you are running on propane, how is that working for you?
ljohnsaw: that tank was for compressed air. I used an air cyl for thottle.
I used 14ga mild steel for what its worth.
I am still running mine with out guards. I cut by myself and if that changed I would probly do something simple like kbeitz did. I have broke about 6 blades cause I run till failure. I find it pretty uneventfull when one breaks. I do however stay away from the side of the mill while the blade is turning. I have twice started the mill before I put the blade under tension and thought the possible damage to the mill could be worse then with a broken blade.
I am not saying to run with out a guard just that I do it. I do believe that if you are using tires as your blade wheel, that guarding could create more of a risk of your blade ruining your tires when they break. If I ever start working with help, I will have to take the chance and put guards on. I will be thinking of a way to guard it and still maby not eat up a tire if a blade breaks.
I love all the fabrication this thread has shown so far.
Cheers
gww
Kbeitz, I just measured, I can get away with an 2"X8.5" instead of a 2"X 6" [ I can rip a 2X10] and make them like your. Do you have a bottom or just sides and top?
Thanks for coming by guys!
3/4" ply wood back bolted to the frame.
Then 2 x 6" on the top and both sides.
Front has 3/4" plywood hinged to the top 2 x 6
with jeep hood latches to hold the front shut.
Bottom is open.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Plywood.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Plywood_finished.JPG)
Thanks kbeitz, I'll do the same. I cut the plywood for the back, I'll attach it and rip some
2" by to 8 1/2" for the top and sides.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34022/mill_26.JPG)
You can see how I have this bit of track. I'm thinking of having the mill wheels run on the upright of the angle iron, there will be less sawdust build up where the rollers/wheels are. I heard some one mention that here a while back.
Good idea. I used channel and every so often I need to scoop mine out.
I'm thinking on makeing a dust plow to keep it clean.
I built mine out of Eastern Red Cedar. It is joined with biscuits and screws. They are still holding together after 9 years. They have faded quite a bit, but still solid. The entire front raises for blade access.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/New%20blade%20guard%202.jpg)
Wudman
HI Wudman, Wouldn't mind seeing the rest to your mill one day. Thanks for letting us see what you've done.
Kbeitz, You're making/letting me think lazy, with a sweep I could just build an extension to this piece.
Richard
Hogfarmer, Mine are being made out of 1/8 steel and plywood front covers
Thank you all for the information!!! 8)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34022/mill_29~0.JPG) Can't seem to post a photo. Think I got it that time.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34022/mill_30~1.JPG)
Got this much of the guard up. I just wana make a bit of dust.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34022/mill_32.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34022/mill_32.JPG)
Ok, I made some sawdust. Now I need to make some log dog.
Quote from: valley ranch on March 17, 2016, 11:30:50 PM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34022/mill_29~0.JPG) Can't seem to post a photo. Think I got it that time.
For a minute there, I thought you were poaching a tree from my property! Same snow, same granite ;)
Same Granite from the same mountain.
Valley
You got to be careful trying things that are not finnished. My experiance when doing that is that when it works even though not finnished, All of a sudden it is finished because it worked ;D. Looks to me like you are about done building. Looks good.
gww
Gww, I know exactly what you mean,{ I did that when building this house} I just couldn't wait. The log dogs are important, I was worried that the log would move, grip the blade and kink or break it. {My only Blade}
Kebeits, Just read your latest run down of blade Silver Brazing, That's great, I have a metal bandsaw that I have to have blades made for because the company, not company, makes them that size.
Big help.
On the Blade guides, I tried to get the adjustments Magic Man has mentioned ,several times, is needed.
Still haven't wrapped my brain around how I will tension the drive belt.
Richard
On adjusting the drive belt. You can put in an adjustable idler pulley or...
What I did was to make both band wheels adjustable. One side will tighten the belt and the blade
the other side only tightens the blade.
I have an idler pulley off a 4cylinger Willys Jeep engine I may use that.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34022/Mill_stops_1.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34022/mill_stops_2.JPG)
How close can the STOPS be to the blade guides? These haven't been welded in yet.
I think I know what your are asking. The log stops should hold the log in far enough that the blade guides can clear the log. I ended up having to rework my guides because my stops were so far out to allow for maximum diameter logs.
From your picture, I can see two potential problems.
1) You need to be able to cut all the way down to something like 1" for your last board. IF you are planning on putting you mill up on wheels or some other stand you should be ok. They way it looks now, you can only drop your stops about 6" from where they are now.
2) It looks like your bracket that you are about to weld sticks up quite a bit (3 or 4"?) from the bed the log is sitting on. It looks like that will prevent you from dropping your stops as far as you will need for final cuts.
I have a Thomas and that's how mine is.Last board is always a inch. My log stops go up and down too. I finally smartened up and put some inch marks on the stops,really did it for edging. I made it so each inch mark is really one inch lower. So 4 inch mark is really 3 inches. But if edging and want 4 inch boards,I set it for 3 inches and saw away. Much easier and no more,I wonder,yep,made it,or setting the stop to low and not have enough support.
Put a little tab,that goes straight back,on the backside and top of the log stop. Just an easy place to put a finger to adjust the stop with.
Hi, I plan on making some short stops.
How far from being right under you guides are your stops, are they slightly in, how much?
I may raise the bunks up, with a 2"X4".
Here is a picture of my old homemade guides:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_blade_guide_drive_side_1.jpg)
The bolt head below the horizontal bearing ended up just barely catching the log stop and prevented me from getting down to the last inch.
After those bearing failed a few times, I bought commercially made replacements from Cook's:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Cooks_Guides.jpg)
Note how the flange actually sticks out a little more on the left than the old backup bearing. So I had to make it move even further to the right. However, I will probably make a little thing to hang slightly below and in front of the blade to hit the log stops if they are too high.
Sample...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Dog_stopper~2.JPG)
Wrong question.
That answered the question of the fellows who posted after I did.
"How close can the STOPS be to the blade guides? These haven't been welded in yet."
Put the adjustable stops as far to the left as you can. You will be cheating yourself of log diameter capacity if you don't.
Edit: I was thinking of how the WM mills are configured and this probably isn't true of your mill.
Thank you Mtn Man, It's the fixed stop I'm not sure of. I don't know if that stop is usually put right under the blade guide or further in toward the center of the track. Yes, I do not want to limit the size of the log by putting it too far in.
vally r
I wish I would have put my log stops a little bit further in then I have them even at the cost of losing a tiny bit of log width. I have mine right up against the guides where the guides actually ride right up against the rails if they where high enough. With a manual mill it is not the end of the world and lots of times I just lay a piece of board against them if I want the log to ride further to the center of the bed. It happens more then you think due to knotts or butt taper in a log. Many times I just use wedges and don't even put the log against the stops. I also notice that with the closeness of my mill head riding down the track, it one of the stops gets bent out (mine are actually wood stakes inside square tubing) it goes into the head travel area pretty easy. I find it sucks to get almost done with a cut and to find your guide are going to hit a knott or the butt of the log flairs out just a bit too far. Needless to say what ever you do you will find that you sometimes have to make on the fly adjustments. Putting them in a little would still allow you to lower them out of the way and use wedges to hold the log for the few really wide cuts you might need to make. Unless all your logs are really wide my vote would be to move the stops in a little extra.
I hope you can make some sence of this post.
Good luck
gww
I can adjust my dogs in or out with split collars.
I got around 2" of adjustment.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Split_collars.jpg)
Quote from: valley ranch on March 27, 2016, 01:59:34 PM
Thank you Mtn Man, It's the fixed stop I'm not sure of. I don't know if that stop is usually put right under the blade guide or further in toward the center of the track. Yes, I do not want to limit the size of the log by putting it too far in.
I was referring to the log(side) stops, the ones you can raise up and down, as shown in your pics.
Well, I tacked them on and made a couple cuts. I should have moved them in a bit more, same as you. I cut off the end of a bolt that was touching and removed a bolt, as I had one on the other side, BUT just too close to the flange of the Roller Guide.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34022/mill_stops_3.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34022/mill_stops_4.JPG)
You can see it's just too close, I'll have to cut them off and have another go, move them in farther, I was thinking a quarter inch. You think more?
Remember that what your cutting wont allway be flat. Sometimes knots stick out before the first cut.
Valley
Yours are like mine are now. I wish I had moved them in two inches more. Like I said earlier. If you have a wide log you can always lower them out of the way and use wedges for that one or two cuts to get a cant. It would be better only having to worry about it on exceptional logs compared to having to worry on most every log.
JMHO
Cheers
gww
Ps Mine are like yours now, it doesn't stop me from cutting something almost daily but it does slow the cutting down due to more manipulation on each log then would be needed.
Trying to decide if I should grind em off and move them in a bit or lay a board against them. I could flip a coin to help in the decision.
This sure is fun, gosh! I like it.
I'm not gona ask what a Split Collar is.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/split_collar.jpg)
Valley
My view is if you are in the mood do it now and don't do the board in front of the stop thingy. I find that all the little flaws on my mill are thought about almost daily but I find if I can just keep using it they just bother me but not enough to do anyting about it. I ground and moved lots of things till I could get my mill cutting. I have several things that would not take a lot of work to make my mill better (like extending it and moving my stops in) but can't get motivated to make it better and just keep cutting like it is. I am not on a schedual and just cut a little each day no matter how long it takes. It could be so much better. So if you are a procrastinator like me you might just want to get it better to begine with. It is yours and you will be proud of being able to cut boards whatever you decide but better is better.
Good luck
gww
Greetings, A Procrastinator I can be, BUT I am also a compulsive excessive. While I can and have pushed things to the side, if I'm on to something I must get it done.
You however are correct in assuming that I'm not on to moving the stop receivers at this time.
I'm pondering reworking the track so that the carriage wheels are riding on the upright of the Channel Iron runners or finishing this track as a stationary track as is and having a track on a trailer as well.
Now that I've typed this I'm thinking: It makes less to have two.
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Is your mill stationary or portable, do you have one track or two?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34022/mill_stops_3.JPG)
Right now the wheels are running on a piece of angle welded to the horizontal of the large angle iron.
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gww
Just looked at your mill, I see only one blade guide?
valley
I have two blade guides. They were made and shiped and given to me for free by a member named leggman and my mill cuts 100% better because of him. I hardly ever move them closer then about 20 inches apart but sometimes have to move them further apart for the really big logs.
My mill is stationary though I can't believe it would be hard to put on a trailer and move anytime I want. It is not that heavy and is attached to 8x8s. I am always scared to do anything to it when it is cutting good. It is funny what a small thing can do to make it cut good or bad. If my guides come lose enough where you can just barily see it it makes a big differance then when they are solid as a rock.
My track is what looks like a barn door sliding rack. It is a U shaped peice of metal. My plastic wheels ride on top of a ridge on one side of the U.
The U fills up with sawdust but never seems to affect the cut.
Good luck on your build.
gww
Hi, Same here, MagicMan Sent these guides I'm using. Bless um.
Are you using that mill on a regular basis?
Vally
If you are asking me if I am using my mill alot. Depends on what you call alot. I cut probly 5 logs last week. I spead them out about one log a day though I did cut two logs a day for two days. Two logs added up to about 70 board foot so they are not large. I just continually piddle at it and pretty much cut a few days a week with lulls sometimes but not often. I saw the thread where magic gave you the guides. That was very nice of him. The guides that leggman made for me included all the mounting hardware for my mill and made a new mill of it. It is cutting very well right now. I have built a pavillion, shed, cedar chest, several bee hives, an outhouse, some raised bed gardens and two swingsets counting one I did today. It took me a year to cut for the things I have built so you see that I am slow. I have a 14x14 lean too that will only hold about 4 more logs worth of stickered wood. I figure it up and the days I cut I end up with about $20 bucks worth of wood if I charged thirty cents a board foot. I would starve if I had to count on it but am retired and must be hooked.
I have no comparisent of wether my mill does good or not compared to a bought mill as I still have never seen a bought one in action except on you tube.
Of the stuff in the lean too, I will have lots of waste with rot in places and just drying defects. The board are coming off the mill good though just getting poorer logs. I am the true one man show from the woods to the finished board and truthfully did 80 percent of the building of things alone. I am putting my antiscocial streak to good use.
Cheers
gww
I've grooved the mill wheels. Had no way to run the wheels between centers. Used a grinder with a 1/4" grinding disk.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34022/mill_wheels_2_~3.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1464661129)
I had to true the bottom of the groove, it hadn't been turned. I just took of what was necessary.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34022/mill_wheels_1.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1464661409)
Now it rolls much better, have to grind the cross members as the wheel sit lower on the angle iron's edge.