Making your own flour and cornmeal plus cooking with it.

[Ljohnsaw]

Is it made that you can stack both sieves on at the same time? Then you would get three grades of product in one run.

[21incher]

Is it made that you can stack both sieves on at the same time? Then you would get three grades of product in one run.

You could but would need longer springs and probably would become top heavy. Really just trying to remove all the pericarp from the whole wheat to make it appear whiter with less nutrition to mimic bread flour and shooting for 40 mesh or less grind. For cake flour will try the 60 mesh screen and will adapt my 20 mesh sifter for cornmeal. Just shooting for a uniform end product and learning on the job.

Here is the video I just made about getting started
https://youtu.be/SuEdCYVeT0M

[tule peak timber]

21,
Great thread! And your bread loaves look just terrific.

In a couple of weeks I will do a post of how my floriani cornmeal comes out. I have the ears drying up in the rafters in a clean area and will be trying a small manual grinder from Colombia. 

Just a note on the eye surgery; I had double cataract surgery last June 2022 and also 2 lens implants for vision correction. Nothing but trouble ever since. The cataract cleaned up my vision just fine, but my left eye feels like a fried egg hung on a nail. I've been back to them and they tell me it will correct itself, but has not in almost 1-1/2 years. Having to use many different types of eye drops and I wish I'd never gone with the implants. Just my personal experience. Am back to wearing to glasses on top of the implants. What a waste of money. My 0.02$

Rob

[21incher]

Can't wait to see some other posts on here and your thoughts about the Floriani cornmeal comes out for your polenta. Supposed to be less starch in the flint corn then dent corn I use that gives it a whole different flavor. Add some info how the mill works.  

I just had the second one done last week and only got the single vision replacement lenses because that's all insurance would cover. Last week, after I ended drops on the first one the next day it started building up tremendous pressure and pain. The day after that was my second surgery and they loaded up the first eye with steroids to get it under control because I didn't want to delay the second another month. Back on drops for that one along with the drops for the new one and no more pain. I had worse then 20/200 in both eyes before and now have 20/20 in both for distance but lost all my nearsight vision. I am struggling with cheater glasses to read and use my computer until my brain settles in. I found Milwaukee safety glasses with built in cheaters for driving and shopping.  My cataracts went from good vision to basically no vision in 6 months so it feels good to see again. I feel old though  because  the surgeon was about the same age as my granddaughter.  

[randy d]

we have ground hard red winter wheat hard white wheat and some field corn the corn seemed to get quite hot and wanted to gum the grinding burrs. My wife has been making some tasty loaves of bread using 3 cups of our whole wheat flour which would be a mix of hard red and winter white wheat with a lot of kneading and a slow rising it turns out great could very easily put on some weight doing this. We tried corn bread but we are not big fans of corn bread. So that has been our journey so far

[SwampDonkey]

You need to soak that cornbread in maple syrup. ;D

[Don P]

I did use the cornbread recipe posted above to make waffles over the weekend. I tried maple surple, honey and raspberry/chocolate on them. I'm sure part of it is cultural, what one is raised on, school lunch often had grits or cornbread... bad grits  :D.

The peppers are coming in, have been coming in, are rotting on the vine, we're swimming in peppers. I tried roasting some, dicing a cup and adding it to a batch of cornbread. I should have diced very fine, a few wet squishy chunks, the flavor was better the next day once it all came together. I think I'll try fresh peppers and a little less next try. A couple of batches of cheese grits and attempted polenta. I think that is a northern thing, someone is going to have to school me.

The sound of stones touching is fingernails on the chalkboard to my ears, is that not dulling and glazing them? I can see polish on a couple of small spots where mine have touched and can smell the rock when they do. A miller would box my ears for doing that. I've run that "rocked" grain and a bit more out for the chickens the 2 times I've touched, but those are natural stones that are dressed to sharpen them, I'm not sure what is in the mockmill.

Do a search on "hopper boy". In an Evans style mill it was a powered rake that spread the flour out and moved it around to cool it after grinding. I think getting it spread out thin and a few stirrings will help cool it. When proofing yeast, the water needs to pass the wrist test, just like baby's milk... less than ~120°F I think. The flour needs to be at least that cool. Brewer's run much cooler before pitching yeast, below 90 if I remember right. The heat is probably killing the yeast partway through the rise.

[21incher]

With that mockmill for a fine grind you adjust the stones till they kiss and then back it off a hair. They aren't real stone and it doesn't seem to bother them. They seem too small to dissipate the heat from friction and transfer it to the flour. Funny  that no one mentioned that in the videos about them making money off the sales. The instant yeast used for machines has more tolerance for heat and cold. I think heat actually causes it to rise too much too fast and then it droops when baking. You can even use cold water for European style breads. 
This machine actually works good when adjustments are made for fresh flour and nothing like deodorizing the house with the smell of fresh bread. Have to figure out the timer to wake to the smell of fresh cooking bread. 
I actually can get a finer grind and cooler flour from the Vevor machine but my wife isn't afraid of the mockmill. Need a bigger toaster and bigger pants  ;D 

[21incher]

A perfect loaf of white sandwich bread.  At 7.5 inches tall have to cut it in half for a sandwich  ;D





 
Took 4.5 minutes of my time to make and the machine spit this out in a little over 2 hours. My wife is calling it her easy bake oven.

[thecfarm]

Now that's bread!!!!

[21incher]

Corn bread made with fresh ground Wapsie Valley Corn  using the machine recipe.  digin1.
Great flavor and texture.  I used a fine grind for the corn and wheat.  


 


My pants are getting tight  . 

[21incher]

New experiment today. Drove down and got a 50 pound bag of 2023 organic rye berries that were just harvested and processed.  Decided to modify the whole wheat recipe in the bread maker book. Instead of all wheat,  I used 1 cup fresh ground rye flour, 1 cup fresh ground spelt flour,  and took about 2 1/2 cups of fresh ground red winter wheat to get to the weight in the recipe. It smells so good and has a sour rye aroma  digin1.  The house smells sooooo good now. 


 

 
Another perfect loaf from that crazy machine. Tell you how it tastes tomorrow.  Cranking out another Wapsie Valley Corn bread tomorrow.  

[Don P]

Stuff that's come in this week;
Big Sis's husband came in 2nd place at the state fair in Raleigh for his bread last week. He does make good bread.

Pierce's Mill outside of DC is grinding this weekend and hosting the grain alliance, millers, bakers, etc.

An email from these folks came in and reminded me where I'd seen a good selection of varieties;
Dent, Flint & Flour Corn (southernexposure.com)

There is a pair of newish introductions (I think research began 20 years ago), "Revolt" and "Rebellion" bred to be resistant to GMO pollen. They crossed a yellow dent with popcorn, a fine silked flint, to create an open pollinated corn with a silk that the GMO pollen cannot travel down.
Varieties – Green Haven (openpollinated.com)

This is a mill my partner knows, a couple of hours north of us in some of his old shoeing grounds.
Investing in Soil Health Practices - Part 2: Deep Roots Milling - YouTube

[21incher]

Great source for the corn seeds Don P. Love those big water powered mills.

Toast this morning and the flavor was awesome.  A honey wheat light rye nutty flavor that we love. Going to try adding 7 grain cereal to the next one. Never realized this good of a bread could be made by machine. Going to try same dough in the oven also after rolling in cornmeal for a real crispy crust.


 

[thecfarm]

You guys are doing great!!!!
Wife use to make bread. Nothing like the flour you guys are using.
Enjoy!!!!!
It all looks good. 
Yes, we use to hear the complaint when she was selling it about not fitting in a toaster.  :  Just cut it in half!!!

[SwampDonkey]

Before you know it, you'll be selling artisan bread. Use the right buzz words and won't be able to keep the shelves stocked. ;)

[21incher]

You guys are doing great!!!!
Wife use to make bread. Nothing like the flour you guys are using.
Enjoy!!!!!
It all looks good.
Yes, we use to hear the complaint when she was selling it about not fitting in a toaster.  :  Just cut it in half!!!

Thanks, the flavor of fresh grain really makes it amazing.  When you're old and have arthritis these machines are worth trying.
That's the mistake you made that kept you from becoming a bread tycoon.  You should have been selling wide slot toasters to those who complained for a big profit.  More then one way to skin a cat.

Before you know it, you'll be selling artisan bread. Use the right buzz words and won't be able to keep the shelves stocked. ;)

Hard to keep up with our consumption.  All the relatives want to move in with  us when ww3 breaks out after seeing the 400 pounds of grains in the root cellar.  Going to try cooking whole wheat berries to see how good they are whole. 

[btulloh]

21"r, what's the connection between commercial flour and arthritis?  (Did I miss the medical reports earlier in this thread?). I've been making all my loaf bread for at least twenty years now but just using King Arthurs bread flour. I know that fresh ground flour makes better tasting bread, but didn't know there were benefits for arthritis. 

I'm not really in a position time-wise to get into grinding my own although it is interesting and produces better bread. Maybe I better start buying quality wheat and a grinder for medical reasons. 

BTW - I've been using a Zorijusi (sp?) machine for ten years now and well worth the extra money. Like sawmills and many other things, you get what you pay for.  Replaced the pan twice, but no issues beyond that. 

After using my own loaf bread for so long, any loaf bread from the store is inedible, especially considering the price of a loaf of bread. 

This thead is very educational. Thanks to you snd Don P for taking us all along!

[21incher]

I said when you have arthritis a bread machine is the way to go. Kneading really can get painful and the machine handles that part. That machine does an awesome job and allows custom programs for home ground recipes. 

Actually from what I have read commercial flours are stripped of all the good natural vitamins and minerals  and then have to have some added back and chemically treated to meet USDA nutrition requirements.  Also chemically treated for color. Home ground flour is far superior nutritionally to commercially milled wheat. Freshly ground hard red wheat has twice the calcium  and phosphorus,  twice the amount of crucial  B vitamins  niacin (B3) and thiamine  (B1), and nearly twice the riboflavin  (B2). It also has 3 times the iron and 4 times the potassium  according to the USDAs nutrient database. Wheat has 40 of the 44 nutrients considered essential to sustain human life when not stripped out by processing.  That Sue Becker book has a good explanation of the benefits of grinding your own. Wheat berries will store up to 25 years whole but once ground start degrading so basically the flour most buy is already past due when purchased.  Also there are many that have problems  with gluten but are not celiac diagnosed.  Using grains with lower gluten can often help them without having to spend a fortune. 

The biggest reason  for us is the flavors and blending different grains to come up with new  flavors and textures. Plus having a low cost supply of nutritious grains to get through whatever may come next. 
It sure would be hard to go back to store bread for us now also. It only costs us a couple cents to make a good loaf of bread now. Garbage white commercial sandwich  bread going for 5 bucks a loaf now so payback shouldn't take too long. Finding a small local mill that just grinds the grain and doesn't seperate it is a good way to get started without a big investment but only buy what can be used quickly or it will store a couple weeks in the freezer. 

 

[btulloh]

Well that's more good info and makes me want to grind some flour. Your research on little mills and such gives me a great head start. When I finally get through my three plus year moving process I hope to be able to take on a new adventure like grinding my own flour. (In addition to all the other things like woodworking, metal work, sawmilling, etc., etc.). Right now things like sleeping and eating don't want to fit on the schedule!  

There's a good mill about 75 miles west of me that produces excellent stone ground flour, cornmeal, and grits (Amherst Milling Co.) but I never asked them about flour that hasn't been separated.  I would imagine that could be provided. It's just far enough away that it wouldn't work out to go there often though. I do think I'll start accumulating some things to pursue this though. You've basically established a template here that I can follow.  I think it would be worth pursuing. After all, I only have about thirty or forty different interests to spend time on.  Ha!  

Even now, the bread I turn out is very good.  Last time I ran the numbers it was about 0.65 a loaf. A couple times I've wanted to take short break from making the bread but one loaf of store bought bread purs me right back to making my own.

How did your rye bread turn out?  Looks real good.  My one attempt at rye bread was a bust.  Just used the recipe in the Zojirushi book. Rye ratio was way too high and really not fit to eat. It was an excellent masonry product though and with enough loaves like that I could have laid a very sturdy foundation for a timber frame. 

[21incher]

I used the whole wheat recipe for the machine (3 hour 10 minute cycle ). Instead of all hard red wheat I used 1 cup of fresh ground  rye berries,  1 cup fresh ground spelt, and about 2 1/2 cups red wheat.  I went by total grams when adding  the wheat. All were ground very fine. The spelt toned down the wheat  flavor with a sweet nutty flavor and the rye was perfect with the honey flavor weused insteadof sugar.  It's  now our favorite mix. Going to make a mix of seeds to try adding to it next. Looking at sunflower, flax, chia, and several  others to add before the last kneading.  

[Don P]

A nearby farm is going to start cover cropping with wheat so I've been running down some rabbit holes. And wondering if I can single pass mill wheat without too much coarse "Cream of Wheat" cereal left on top of the screen.  I had seen the "Falling Number" listed for wheat when buying from several suppliers. I was curious. It is a test for how long it takes the stirring rod to fall to the bottom of a test tube full of a precise warm flour slurry. Nowadays falling number is often measured electronically with the truck on the scales waiting to come in.

At the end of the day, it is sort of a "damage" number in this use. A high number in the high 300 second range means the grain develops good gluten and has little alpha amylase enzyme activity going on. A low number means the grain is or has, tried to break dormancy and sprout. Was the grain harvested dry and the first time it was dry enough, or was it rewetted and warm.

Alpha amylase is the stuff in mammal saliva that converts starch to sugar. It is present in grain as well and is what turns starch to sugar to supply energy to the plant. A low, or fast, falling number is the sign of starch conversion... in preparation for sprouting. With a low number, the stirring rod sank quickly through less glutinous flour, more sticky starch has been converted to sugar. The bread won't stick together or rise as well.

If you're converting grain to fermentable simple sugars, beer, this is one of the crucial enzyme steps in whole grain brewing.

The number given in the link below I think needs to be taken with a grain. I know different varieties have more or less gluten and some of the white wheats want to sprout at or before harvest. I think one would expect a lower falling number out of those sweet wheats. Which also might get into what 21incher was talking about with high gluten and wheat intolerance. Falling number might give a clue as to tolerance level. Or are those folks having an enzyme issue? Above my pay. Anyway, you want high numbers for a keeper.

What is a falling number and what does it mean about your wheat? (vt.edu)

[tule peak timber]

So after a year of planning, growing, and dreaming of making my own polenta last night I gave it a try. I sent the Floriani corn through a Colombian made mill and boiled it up with water and a little butter for dinner along with some Italian wine. The flavor was great but a little chewy. I couldn't help think about my Aunt stirring polenta at the stove in the early 60's for what seemed like hours. This morning I made some fried polenta fingers outside by the BBQ. Tonight, I will fry some sage and try another bottle of vino and maybe some lamb. Cheers !

 

 

[21incher]

Looks great,  now you have to try some other corn varieties to compare it to. Is that Floriani corn the same as what Italians call 8 row corn?

Well Don P you are like my old Jack Russell chasing rabbits down holes. The variety and gluten content is a whole science by itself.  Good thing the grain processors verify it when buying. Nobody wants crummy bread. Then throw soft wheat and ancient  grains in the mix plus yeast rising or baking powder rising and it becomes overwhelming to newbies like me. Another thing we have have switched to because of research is aluminum free baking powder. Seems most commercial bakeries use baking powder that for some reason contains aluminum powder that doesn't make sense to me. It can actually leave a metallic after taste in your  mouth that can spoil the flavor of baked goods using it.

I have been running cheap rice through that Mockmill after grinding corn to clean the stones. And then doing the same after wheat berries to prevent rancidness or traces of wheat in the next grind. I start with a coarse grind and then send it through a couple times getting finer every time. Doesn't seem to leave a flavor and actually cleans the fake stones good.

We are going to play with the Einkorn grain next as it's supposed to boost immunity along with preventing cancer and heart disease according to the internet. Einkorn is a pure diploid wheat with anti inflammatory properties. I have an auto immune issue since my second  covid vaccine and am hoping there is some truth to all the hype about ancient grains.

[21incher]

Every time we grind flour for bread there is a little leftover that we place in a plastic container in the freezer.  It is a mix of everything we grind. This week it was hard red, hard white,  soft white,  and spelt. My wife made waffles with it this morning and they were great. What flavor and texture  compared to the Bisquick we used to use. Great way to enjoy the extra. A little butter  and my backyard maple syrup and a nice breakfast.