Low grade prices

[killamplanes]

Well u see a little bit walnut tie but it pretty rare. It's like sometimes white oak, value wise sometimes it's better to take the boards than the tie. But my logging side of my business walnut makes up 30% of sales and some weeks during heart of winter I hardly cut anything but wo and walnut.  The red, black oak etc market stays pretty stable here but with the 3 of us (me,myself, and i) . I don't hardly buy a timber without a good ratio of wo and walnut. But when I have time in the summer I do clear cuts and stuff and whatever goes on that. Mat logs on what I can not make ties and blocking for the shorter stuff. A poor tree I cut down may be divided between up to 5 mills

[Okrafarmer]

If you divide a tree among five mills, it sounds like you are wringing everything you can out of it-- sounds like responsible resource allocation, to me!

Walnut is probably <1% of what grows around here. But we also have around 100+ indigenous millable species in this area, too. A lot of RO, WO, SYP, YP, and SG around here, followed by smaller numbers of more interesting things.

[killamplanes]

That is one thing I struggle with on this forum. PINE. We have no natural pine here. Maybe a yard tree or 2 floating around. I have never cut or milled a pine wouldn't no a yellow from white.  But it's a very large market in the world just not my tiny world.  But we got cottonwood and sycamore as plentiful as corn fields.  And there good enough for me.  They are my low end trees. But we have markets for the lumber not great markets but markets. ;D

[BigZ La]

What do you do with most of your cottonwood?? Mostly ties or do you use it for other things. Thanks for any info.

[killamplanes]

Not aloud to make ties out of cottonwood or pine here. Cottonwood makes crane mats. Some low end pallets use it. We use it for pole buildings, not in contact with ground or in weather. So like 2x4 your sheeting screws to etc. Shake is the lumber no.1 problem because the roots lIke sitting in water.  3x3 blocking for flatbed truck drivers. It's a soft wood but still use able in select applications. In log form 250mbf blocking price. 420+-mbft crane mats. Prices vary but that's locally.

[Okrafarmer]

Do you have sweetgum up there? It's our substitute for cottonwood here. Cottonwood is rare in these parts.

[killamplanes]

Not much sweetgum here. Mainly a yard tree that's been planted. I couldn't imagine going out to timber carpeted with there spikee little balls.  But I believe you can make tie out of them. I never heard u couldnt. All I know cottonwood, popular, pine can't make tie atleast.

[Okrafarmer]

Actually they say they like the sweetgum quite well for ties, as well as construction matting. It does rot bad, but that's why they treat the ties, after all.

Seetgum has a natural ability to flex. It has a massively interlocking grain, which makes it very very tough and split-proof for its weight. It's very hard to split with a splitting maul, but hydraulic splitters handle it ok. For all of that, it is very clean-cutting wood-- one of the easiest I've come across to sawmill. You;ll get miles of sweetgum on a single blade before you have to swap it out.

Supposedly, I'm told, the SG ties are able to flex when the train goes over them without tending to break up over time as readily as some of the more inflexible hardwoods do.

[Okrafarmer]

Not much sweetgum here. Mainly a yard tree that's been planted. I couldn't imagine going out to timber carpeted with there spikee little balls.  But I believe you can make tie out of them. I never heard u couldnt. All I know cottonwood, popular, pine can't make tie atleast.

Oh, uh, regarding what's in bold: That's one good reason to wear work boots while working in the woods. Just saying. . . . .  :D

[killamplanes]

Easy cutting is why I like sycamore. Blade slides right threw it and there very tall and hold there diameter all the way up. They tend to have shake on first log and sometimes cut that deep red heart which neither will make tie but over half usually make tie. I love the lumber for my pallet operation it's easy on the nail gun and fairly light weight wood. My brother in law lives in Nashville TN and there's alot sg there.

[Okrafarmer]

Funny you say that about the sycamore. I've found it to be a very heavy wood here, at least when green. Not as heavy as oak, I suppose, but close. I agree it cuts pretty nice, but it seems to want to warp pretty bad, with a lot of tension right on the mill. Sweetgum can be like that too. But I like milling either one of them, and the big logs from either one make some beautiful lumber, especially quarter-sawn on the sycamore. I hope I get a chance to QS some big sweetgum some time and see how it turns out.

In my opinion, both sycamore and sweetgum are highly undervalued grade lumber. They make beautiful furniture, etc. But don't mess around trying to get nice boards out of logs less than 16" diameter with either one of them.  ;D Pallet and ties are a good choice for the littler logs.

[killamplanes]

I agree some of decorations picture frames etc. Around my house are made of sycamore. My wife goes out to the mill walks by walnut, cherry ,wo pile straight to sycamore. Gets what she wants and heads to the house. It does tend to twist. But I find air nailing it down to a pallet it stays stable. But here it is very light weight big diffirence between it and any oak, probly lighter than ash. Very undervalued I believe. I got 12 logs on deck right now half sycamore half low end red oak. One man's trash is another's treasure. I will take a couple ties out to finish a load and back to pallet stock. 270 pallets last week got me running short on lumber. Well atleast certain stuff. I have a little operation repairing an odd ball pallet a local company uses. It's great for my mill they own probly 50 different pallets made of every thickness and deminsion none to man. One size wood doesn't work. U just cut a ton of different dimensions etc. And watch the pile disappear into the repairs. Challenging but very niche in the aspect of variety of pallets. Great for low end wood. And that's what kills me on transportation both log or lumber form.

[Okrafarmer]

Sounds like you have a good little thing going there, Killamplanes. I hope you're able to get niche prices for your niche pallet material, too!

I haven't been much to Illinois, but have seen what Indiana hardwoods look like-- looks like a real nice area for hardwoods-- if you can find them between the cornfields!

[killamplanes]

I believe there's alot of opportunitys out there for a small sawmill. Expecially if a person can figure out a way to take a tree to final product or goods.  And without employees if a person doesn't want the responsibilty. It takes alot of work but so doesn't anything worth doing. Low grade wood is probably the most common lumber around and the least competitive to buy. I know alot of high end loggers that would only buy walnut and wo that went broke. Not saying that it can't happen to anybody. But diversity and exploring opportunitys is the way I have made what I have. From being a dealer in planes owning 28 over the years to farms in mississippi, to forestry and on and on.  I have forced myself to not focus all my time, energy and investments on one business. Though argueble I may have bèen better off. I choose to not put all my eggs in one basket and enjoy the diversity of doing different things.  Drives my wife nuts but I was this way before she was around. And my 3yr old and 6 yrs old think that it's normal. I am not trying to glott but challenge people to think out of the box and not take the easy route. Life's to short. I hate to know how many times people told me (that's a stupid idea). I got the last laugh most of the time. And my little pallet gig has already turned out in the green. I will ride it out and see were it goes. I will not over invest in it because I don't want to have to see high production numbers for profit. But it will be added to one of my 4 other businesses actually supporting the logging or mill or vice versu. Sorry for being long winded..

[Okrafarmer]

No, you're right, killam. finding the niches is where it's at.