Hardwood Bolts??? Help!!!!

[matt s]

How does a person know what to pay for hardwood bolts? Is this what we look for to cut pallet material?  I have a friend that has a 40 super that wants to cut for pallet company that wants him to cut 10' 3x6 for $360 /m . others companys  too..  Are there other ways to find bolts other than loggers and truckers? any suggestions? Is it worth it? We ran the numbers @125 a cord and it gave us a profit of around $150 total after all expenses?  How many cord to make 10/mbf ? Thanks in advance... by the way we are in Northeast Wisconsin... Any help would be greatful!!!!!!

[beenthere]

Hi Matt s

Are you going to cut mostly for 10' 3x6 ?  And then cut pallet material from the rest of the log?

Will any hardwood species do? 

What is your definition or understanding of a hardwood bolts size?

Good that you are asking some questions. Hope you like the answers. 

[matt s]

Thanks so much for response... 1. Yes cut for the 10 foot job and then cut other material.

                                                2.  Any hardwood

                                                 3. 7-10 " from what I understand, with the understanding that 10' would be a request.

I am very green, my buddy has some knowledge... but is embarassed to ask basic ?'s... I on the other hand am not...
I was just wondering what sets the going price for bolts? do you just take someones word? call, call, call.... see where everyone else is at? just looking for some sound advice...  I work at a papermill... layed off though, so times are tight, my buddy is willing to do 50-50 so im researching.

[ahlkey]

Locally the lumber companies near you are only taking bolts that are 8" or above so if you can go as low as 7" that helps.    Typically hardwood pallets are either oak, ash, maple, or hickory to name a few so the fact you can accept anyone of these is good.   

1/mbf is around 2/3rd of a cord as it relates to firewood but for sawing you generally will need more than that 1/3 rd given the waste on small bolts, but the actual size of the bolts makes the difference.

If you only can supply in 10ft lengths of 7 inch and up you may have a problem since you will be competing with hardwood sawlogs where the prices are much higher.  I would suggest you start by asking the local sawmills what they are paying for 10ft bolts (typically 8 ft).

At $125 for 10ft bolts are you talking delivered?

[Ron Wenrich]

If you're going to be sawing pulpwood for cants, you're going to have a lot of work for little return.  There is just too much handling to make any money. 

Pallet stock is usually what's left over when all other markets are exhausted.  Mills pull off their best grade from the sides of the logs, and sell them mainly on the wholesale market.  Ties will offer a better price than pallet stock, if the log supports it.

You need to know your breakeven price before you start to commit to it.  Profit = lumber price - manufacturing costs - log costs. 

Lumber prices would be all the income off of the logs.  That would include any good lumber and pallet stock.  If you're only cutting pallet stock, then you have all the info you need. 

For manufacturing costs, you have to figure out your costs and your sawing times.  How long will it take you to saw 1,000 bf and how much does it cost?  Waste disposal is a cost if you can't sell it.  Small logs will run up to 50% waste.

Finally, how much are the logs going to cost you?  Scaling the logs is going to be out of the question if they are small.  Its better to buy by the load or by the ton. 

[ARKANSAWYER]

I do not know for sure what a cord of logs has in it but I know that if you stack cedar 8' logs you will average about 700 bdft for a 4'x4' stack.
  What I do know is that a 7 inch 10 foot log will make a 3x6x10 cant.  It will total 15 bdft and at $360mbdft you will make $5.40 for it.  You should be able to average about 12 of these an hour on a LT40 with two men and a good supply of logs.  You will generate about as much slabs as cants.  On 8" logs you will lose money and at 9" you can make two cants per log.  Then lose on 10" logs unless you make 6x8 ties.  After that there is more money sawing rr ties.
  You will need a home for the side wood.  Will the pallet stock buyer take side wood?

  Lots of mills go out of business getting rich cutting pallet stock.

[barbender]

I haul about 5 loads of pallet logs a week to a mill up here- Savanna Pallets in McGregor, Mn. Most hardwood (birch,red and burr oak, black ash) I think is $96 per cord. That is for 100", 6" min. top, straight and sound, with no bells and well trimmed. That's what I remember from the spec sheet anyhow. Big stuff that they buy goes to a neighboring mill where they saw cants out and send them back to Savanna. The guys I haul for put a lot of nice saw logs in the pallet pile because they usually don't have the landing space for a separate pile when it may take 1 or 2 weeks to get enough logs for a load. The hardwood mill in Isle I deliver to occasionally, I don't know what they are paying for red oak and other hardwoods, I brought aspen sawlogs there last time, I think they are around $130/cord. I'm sure they pay more for oak, ash, etc. I can't see anyone making a go of it if you have to buy grade hardwood logs to saw up for pallet cants.