Hello millers,
I believe this is my first post.
I'm trying to plan out a bandsaw mill and am currently researching the wheels that the blade runs on. For easy repair and economic considerstions, I want everything that can be 'off the shelf' to come from the shelf. All of the cast iron pulleys approaching 19" that I've found at Surplus Center have "fractional HP" in their description, doesn't this mean they're designed for loads of less than one horse power? There's even a mill builder on youtube who gives a Surplus Center part number that leads to one of these fractional HP pulleys. I've questioned him on this and gotten no reply. Can someone please lead me to a good source of sheaves "pulleys" that will be safe and not break the bank?
My Turner Mills 36" mill has The same wheel and tire that the mill is trailered on for the blade, with a 13' band blade.
LEON
Leon,
Thanks for your quick reply. While I haven't ruled out pneumatic tires on rims, at this point, I'm leaning towards cast iron pulleys running v belts in the groove. There are a couple of sources like that sold by people who supply bandsaw mill kits and one by a dealer who sells drive wheels that cost more than a lot of people have in a complete diy mill.
The Surplus Center prices are most attractive but I can't get past the fractional HP thing.
Not commenting on the quality of any product you are looking at as I have no idea, but wheels are one place you can not afford to have issues. Your saw will never cut right if the wheels are not true.
Southside logger,
Thanks.
I like your comment about having enough cows to ensure that there's no spare time. I share that pleasure.
Yup - I actually enjoy those critters more than the wood side of things - when they cooperate. Just this evening I was walking back in the rain from checking on a group that is close up and suddenly I had 7 or so deer right ahead of me, does and this years fawns. They never even saw me, when they did they could not wind me so they came right at me and ran in a big circle around me several times maybe 20 yards away. Then they pranced off to the side of the field and kept on goofing off. It was a pretty surreal moment, and I owe it to the girls.
Southsideloger is correct. If you want iron wheels, don't skimp. Cooks Saws and Linn Lumber sell some good qulity wheels.
LEON
I've looked at both of those suppliers and even have the plans and video for the Lynn Mill. They're both under consideration as is the pneumatic tire. I can't understand why I can't find a horsepower rating other than fractional HP anywhere.
Go long too. I have a mill that can cut 20 foot logs. Never have got that long. But little did I know it's much easier to load a log 16 feet long onto a mill that can cut 20 foot logs. I have 4 feet to spare instead of inches. Don't have to get the log just right to fit. Also allows me to get the head out of the way too.
I'm running surplus center pulleys 18 inch and have been on the mill for 22 years I'm running a 48 hp engine and 36 inch cut haven't had a problem yet. the pulleys don't turn fast enough to cause them to come apart
Thecfarm,
Good idea. Thanks.
Wayniac,
Thank you. That's what I'd hopped someone would say! I don't suppose you remember whether your pulleys' description mentioned "fractional HP", all those years ago. Do you?
I built my mill with them 2 years ago and have no problems yet. 19hp diesel on mine.
I also used the surplus center pulleys and have no complaints...
Used those on my mill when I built it several years ago, can't remember if it said fraction HP or not. I used the ones with split tapered bushings 1 3/8" shaft. B57 belts. Has worked well for many years.
4 T porta power to tension the blade. Ordering my first set of new bearings today.
Many thanks to everyone for your replies, especially those who've used Surplus Center pulleys.
If anyone who has built a mill using pulleys from Surplus Center remembers them being rated "fractional HP" please tell me. Since Surplus Center supposedly sells surplus I can't be sure you guys, who've successfully used their pulleys didn't get them when they had bought pulleys rated for multiple horse power.
Just looked up my receipt. It says part number BKH190. Which is listed as fractional hp. Seems fine on my mill....
JRWoodchuck,
You're a prince! If I decide to go with that one, it'll cost well over $200.00 per pulley LESS than the most expensive one I've found. There are some options in between so, I've got to do some more research and make my decision.
Thanks again.
they pretty much know you are going to use more than fractional hp with a 19 in pully but that clears them of any liability if you know what I mean
That thought had occurred to me, as well. I wonder if these pulleys are seconds that didn't pass inspection...
Apologies for digging up an old thread, but I am trying to educate myself on the pulleys before I buy.
Does the blade ride on the OD of the pulley and only uses the guides to stay in place, or does the blade somehow fit into the groove of the pulley?
Thank you!
the band rides on a band wheel that looks like a pully but the grove is filled with a belt the same size as the wheel. so the band blade rides on the belt in the groove of the band wheel. some people use tires on a wheel.. you should go look at a few mills if you have not already. if you add your location to your profile, there may be members in your area that might volunteer to show you their mill.
the guides keep the part of the blade cutting the wood from being pushed back, and also make a strait section to get flat boards. there are pulleys from motor to band drive wheel, and poss. an idler pulley. some companies offer parts as well as head units, and you build the frame
Quote from: doc henderson on August 07, 2019, 11:59:56 AM
the band rides on a band wheel that looks like a pully but the grove is filled with a belt the same size as the wheel. so the band blade rides on the belt in the groove of the band wheel. some people use tires on a wheel.. you should go look at a few mills if you have not already. if you add your location to your profile, there may be members in your area that might volunteer to show you their mill.
Thanks Doc. I updated my profile to show location and age.
Earlier in this thread, people were talking about using this (https://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/Concentric-International/18-75-OD-1-Bore-1-Groove-Pulley-1-BK190-E.axd) pulley from surplus center for band wheels. From what you are telling me, I'd need to buy a V belt with the same OD as the pulley and slip it over to fill the groove?
I'd love to buy the cooks pieces, but that's just not in the budget.
yes. the band wheels are heavy cast wheels that are almost like flywheels. they used to recommend the v belt be tight and there was a whole procedure to change them, now they are using them more loose so the saw dust can fall out. a pulley would work. it will need to be linked to a drive pulley on one side, say linked on a shaft. do you have machining skills? some have had success with a harbor freight model if you are just wanting to get in cheap to start. with all your time and material cost I am not sure how much you save. unless you have lots of time and materials already. Good luck. others will likely have opinions as well.
you can also check the sawmill exchange for a used mill. they are a sponsor and there is a link to the left. do you have experience with a mill? if not it would be good to gain a little mill time to help you make good choices with your build. I respect that not everyone chooses to just go out and buy a mill. the pulleys need to be true and stable. they will be under great tension. I have not seen the ones you are speaking of.
Quote from: doc henderson on August 07, 2019, 12:23:33 PM
yes. the band wheels are heavy cast wheels that are almost like flywheels. they used to recommend the v belt be tight and there was a whole procedure to change them, now they are using them more loose so the saw dust can fall out. a pulley would work. it will need to be linked to a drive pulley on one side, say linked on a shaft. do you have machining skills? some have had success with a harbor freight model if you are just wanting to get in cheap to start. with all your time and material cost I am not sure how much you save. unless you have lots of time and materials already. Good luck. others will likely have opinions as well.
Thanks for the info Doc. I can weld/fabricate but don't have easy access to a mill or lathe. I was just looking at the Linn Lumber site and see that they sell a complete saw carriage kit for $1200, which takes all the guess work out of building the intricate parts. I can whip up a trolley and track easily. Might be the way to go, and still be under the HF saw price.
I've got some exposure to another home made mill that used tires. Seemed to be more trouble than it was worth.
I also have experience with a wood mizer. It's very nice, but not even in my realm of "affordable".
might be a good way to start. if you get the sawmill bug, it will be like owning a boat. at least with a mill, you can try to offset expenses with cash for services or lumber. welcome to the forum and keep us up to date with your plans. lots of info and people here that started out just like you.
will this be for your own use. many trees around. will you be trying make money? I am from ks and although we do not have big forested area, we also have few loggers and sawmills
Thats how I started. See my build thread. It worked out well.
I can tell you now that the cost of new steel is much higher than you are thinking. I doubt you can build for less than the HF model. Unless you already have all the parts. I put the 22 hp predator engine on mine and that was $700 itself. It was far more than $300 in steel. Even if I had the engine, I still have more than $1000 in steel.
Another option for wheels would be to find an old large bandsaw. I sold one this weekend that had tipped over and broke the trunnion on the table. 32" wheels. The guy who bought it ($400), plans to turn it into a sawmill.
Steel is expensive. I was about to buy $600 for tube to replace rotting timbers under my band mill. Found some 20' I beam that was heavier than I needed (6x8") for $200 on FB. (HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY!!!)
Unless you have a bunch of the stuff you need already sitting around or you don't value your time, it is usually cheaper to buy a mill and start using it IMHO.
To keep it cheap, one could use a wood frame (timbers or sistered 2x6) with a bit of angle along the top for track. It would get things moving until better could be built. Do check out Hudson, Woodland Mills, and Norwood. They have very economical entry mills.
$1200 for linn basic starter kit. or $2300 for a complete working mill. You need all those parts either way :)
I would actually be curious to know what the HF mill is like.
Quote from: Crusarius on August 07, 2019, 12:39:39 PM
Thats how I started. See my build thread. It worked out well.
I can tell you now that the cost of new steel is much higher than you are thinking. I doubt you can build for less than the HF model. Unless you already have all the parts. I put the 22 hp predator engine on mine and that was $700 itself. It was far more than $300 in steel. Even if I had the engine, I still have more than $1000 in steel.
I just cruised through your thread, very nice!
I have some hook ups through work that I'm trying to source some steel from for cheap or very cheap. We shall see! The perks of being a GC.
I built my mill from all new metal and parts have about $5000 in it and a year time but I would do it again. Experience is worth the time spent. I only wish that I had found this site before I built my mill the idea on here are fabulous. But as others have said if you want to start now buy one ready to go.
Eh, I'm not necessarily in a hurry. I'm in between projects and have a local-ish mill for milling when I need it. The desire is to have my own and not have to haul logs into town and work around someone else's schedule. I have a large fence project coming up next year as well and would rather spend a few grand on a mill that I can get more use out of rather than dumping cash into a large box store for lumber.
More importantly, I like to build/tinker and my project car is "done" for now. ;D
Good look forward to your build
I have about $2K into mine. Sourced as much stuff used as I could. Old trailer axle cut down to size. Used 22hp motor, scrap bin for short metal. I bought good steel for the frame. Yeah you can buy a HF sawmill....but then you'd have a HF sawmill. Im not concerned with dropping a 1800lb log onto my bunks.
Woodmizer start mill with extra rail will cut anything you want and It is reasonable in price. I have cut about 500 logs this year with it and it has paid for itself within the first few months. I would update but I WANT it to be a HOBBY and NOT a business!!!!!, trying to slow down!!
any pics of the project car? That is helpful info. we are trying to save you time and money. If you like to build stuff as a hobby, go for it. you must have logs or trees at your disposal.
It's just a foxbody mustang. You either love them or hate 'em! Very mild turbo 302.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/56558/IMG_4282.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1565272722)
I have been keeping an eye on CL and marketplace and a Woodland Mills HM126 just popped up last night for $2200. Gonna wait a week or so and see about making an offer. It's a couple hours away in East TX. I've got a half dozen walnut logs, a few Tupelo, and and endless supply of pecan to mill. Also, a few pines are about to come down for a shop, so I've got enough wood to mill to keep me busy for several weekends.
if you wait you probably already missed it.
Quote from: Crusarius on August 08, 2019, 10:10:04 AM
if you wait you probably already missed it.
Shoot, you called it. I messaged her and already got people coming for it. Ad less than 12 hrs old.
sawmills do not hang around long. even dilapidated old ones.
Quote from: Hoopty5.0 on August 08, 2019, 11:39:32 AM
Quote from: Crusarius on August 08, 2019, 10:10:04 AM
if you wait you probably already missed it.
Shoot, you called it. I messaged her and already got people coming for it. Ad less than 12 hrs old.
jv been keeping an eye out for some in the tx area, heck, even up to ar, ok, la, ms, co, even up in to wa and or. either out of my price range, out of price range compared to its condition, or the manufacturer.
If you look long term, a brand saw mill will have higher resale than homemade or HF. I paid 27 for mine 7 years ago and now new they are almost 40k. TK 2000. hope you find something soon.
do you pay for the use of the friends mill. if they are not using it much, and it is cheap to use, might be the best, cheapest option, even if you pay something to use the mill. and keep your eyes open for when a good deal comes around. If the friend ends up wanting to sell, you will be the first one offered prob., and you will know well the ends and outs and condition of the mill.
Quote from: doc henderson on August 08, 2019, 01:25:46 PM
If you look long term, a brand saw mill will have higher resale than homemade or HF. I paid 27 for mine 7 years ago and now new they are almost 40k. TK 2000. hope you find somethin>g soon.<
you slowly becoming an irishman? or the hulk?
Late model decent condition entry sawmills, welders, and plasma cutters all sell quick for near new price. I'm all about used equipment! But when they sell for so close to new, and warranty doesn't transfer, I make an exception. ;)
You could always buy a new entry level sawmill, use it, then sell for 75-80% of what you paid in a couple years. ;D Then choose to get out or upgrade. :D
I know. something happened and went into weird mode. occ. my laptop mouse has a mind of its own. I did have broccoli cheese soup for lunch. I was modifying and I guess I really did a good job! 8) 8) 8)
Quote from: doc henderson on August 08, 2019, 01:40:30 PM
I know. something happened and went into weird mode. occ. my laptop mouse has a mind of its own. I did have broccoli cheese soup for lunch. I was modifying and I guess I really did a good job! 8) 8) 8)
:D :D :D
Well, i was able to source all of the iron needed to make the bed (?) ...well, the part that the trolley rides on and what the log sits on - all for free.
I'm sure I can get some steel to make the trolley for free if not close to it.
So, the plan is to buy the Linn kit, and offshore 6.5hp motor, and buy the rest of the odds and ends needed and end up under $2k.
I realize it's not the easy way, but Im excited to start another fab project. My last big undertaking was a turbo system from scratch, so this is a welcome challenge.
I've got to wait a few weeks for the steel to get to me, so I'll start a new thread once we get it in.
Thanks for the input so far!
Not to be a Debbie Downer but a 6.5hp motor is really at the bottom of what could work. I was there and had a 7hp that I threw on (cut a little better). When I went up to 18hp it was a world of difference. Spend a few more bucks on a motor and you will be so much happier in the long run. Even a 10/11hp. I think I spent $250 or $350 on it well used. Knock on wood its still going strong.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on August 08, 2019, 08:47:57 PM
Not to be a Debbie Downer but a 6.5hp motor is really at the bottom of what could work. I was there and had a 7hp that I threw on (cut a little better). When I went up to 18hp it was a world of difference. Spend a few more bucks on a motor and you will be so much happier in the long run. Even a 10/11hp. I think I spent $250 or $350 on it well used. Knock on wood its still going strong.
Ah, gotcha. Well, I appreciate the insight. I will keep an eye out for something bigger!
Also to expand slightly on John's post on HP, remember the rating is max HP at max RPM, not too many reasonably priced gas or diesel motors can run at max rating and last very long at all. so during normal use, the actual HP available will be less then what is listed kind of like how log splitters are rated, max load while under max RPM, at this type of use, things break pretty quickly. If its going to be stationary mill, might look at electric driven, those are rated at actual performance during everyday use without premature failure and you can usually factor a two to one ratio, i.e. a 10HP electric is relatively equivalent to roughly a 20HP gas or diesel engine, there is a performance curve, but what you are looking for this ratio is a good baseline. just another thought to ponder.
Excellent points, thank you!
Quote from: oldhermit on October 26, 2018, 07:45:49 PM
Hello millers,
I believe this is my first post.
I'm trying to plan out a bandsaw mill and am currently researching the wheels that the blade runs on. For easy repair and economic considerstions, I want everything that can be 'off the shelf' to come from the shelf. All of the cast iron pulleys approaching 19" that I've found at Surplus Center have "fractional HP" in their description, doesn't this mean they're designed for loads of less than one horse power? There's even a mill builder on youtube who gives a Surplus Center part number that leads to one of these fractional HP pulleys. I've questioned him on this and gotten no reply. Can someone please lead me to a good source of sheaves "pulleys" that will be safe and not break the bank?
hi I built my bandsaw mill myself in my house down here in Miami FL my wife said I was crazy until she saw it cutting, now she is happy with the sales... but going to your point, I bought my wheels from surplus center 18 ' I believe and they work perfect, I have been thinking to share all he experience that I got making my machine I just have not much time , but since you are starting yours I think will you need some hel , so you don have the mistakes that I had. so let me know if your interested , it is free.this is a black olive cut just this morning.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/56367/20190812_195507.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1565712766)
So it all depends on big you want to build your machine, I will start for picking an standard size so when you are going to buy your blades you dont have to bu a custom made one , but blades that are already made to other machines ( are less expensive), for example my bandsaw mill cuts up to 36 in but I have to buy 160 in blades custom made and there are blades 158 in standard, so consider that to start. if I will star now always depending on your needs I will go for at least 48 in wide cuts , if you want to go commercial. well we go from here let me know if you want to have more info, good luck.
hi I built my bandsaw mill myself in my house down here in Miami FL my wife said I was crazy until she saw it cutting, now she is happy with the sales... but going to your point, I bought my wheels from surplus center 18 ' I believe and they work perfect, I have been thinking to share all he experience that I got making my machine I just have not much time , but since you are starting yours I think will you need some hel , so you don have the mistakes that I had. so let me know if your interested , it is free.this is a black olive cut just this morning.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/56367/20190812_195507.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1565712766)
So it all depends on big you want to build your machine, I will start for picking an standard size so when you are going to buy your blades you dont have to bu a custom made one , but blades that are already made to other machines ( are less expensive), for example my bandsaw mill cuts up to 36 in but I have to buy 160 in blades custom made and there are blades 158 in standard, so consider that to start. if I will star now always depending on your needs I will go for at least 48 in wide cuts , if you want to go commercial. well we go from here let me know if you want to have more info, good luck