Log cabin dovetail notch laid out with framing square - how to?

[Bibbyman]

Ok call me lazy.  I did a search on "dovetail" and read about 100 posts.  But I didn't find exactly what I was looking for.

What I want to know – to be shown how, that is – to make a dovetail notch for a cabin just using a framing square.

Here is where I'm coming from.  For a couple of years I've driven through Licking, Mo. on our way to West Plains.  A little south of licking a guy has "blank" log cabins built.  They come and go but there is always some activity there.  So today I stopped in and took a closer look.  They are built with pine our oak logs flattened on two sides by a sawmill.  He has some inventory of logs racked up with spacers to dry?  But it appears he builds these cabins and then sales them and reconstructs them with windows and doors to the customer's requirements. 

I went in the furniture store on the same lot as the cabins and talked to the wife of the guy that builds the log homes. She confirmed that all he used was a framing square to lay out the notches.  He had a price on each cabin and I think she said the prices were for the cabin to be reconstructed on your site with the gaps chinked, etc.

Anyway,  it looks quite doable.  If I just knew how.  Maybe someone on the Forum has already posted "how to" lay them out without a patter or jig – just by using a framing square but I've not found it.

Can anyone help me?




"Blank" cabin..





Corner detail





Looks to be "work in progress" or just for show.  Note framing square on ground.

Update,  I found this on You-Tube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0hUPE3kf00

It don't answer my question of how its done with a framing square on the ground but it gives me an idea how the old-timers probably did it without jigs or templates.

[Tom]

yes, That's a half dovetail joint.  I made a "log cabin" pump house like that, using a framing square, chainsaw and broad hatchet.
I got my instructions from Roy Underhill's book, The Woodwright's Shop.  There is a chapter in there about cutting dovetails that is very discriptive.  Unfortunately, my Roy Underhill books are not in my library.  I've lost a lot of books this way.  There for the research and missing when the question is asked.  I dont know what, but lock and key, that will indicate that they are mine.

[Bibbyman]

My son Chris was real interested in building a log cabin at one time and I know he bought some books on the subject.  He may have it.

If all else fails,  maybe I can catch the guy that made the above cabins and ask him to show me how its done.

[Tom]

I wish I could remember exactly, but I don't .  It is real easy.  As memory serves:

You cut the bottom dovetail (even free handed if you want.)
Then transfer the lines of the bottom log to the upper log by scribing with the square and cut it out, rolling it onto the bottom log, now and again, until it fits.

[Bibbyman]

I wish I could remember exactly, but I don't .  It is real easy.  As memory serves:

You cut the bottom dovetail (even free handed if you want.)
Then transfer the lines of the bottom log to the upper log by scribing with the square and cut it out, rolling it onto the bottom log, now and again, until it fits.

Take a look at the You-Tube video I moded onto my first post and see if that's about what youd did???

[Tom]

Yep, That's it.  ;D    'Cept I just used a carpenter's square and a pencil.  My SYP didn't come apart near that easily either.  :D

[ErikC]

 Dad's house is dovetailed 6x12's, he laid them out with a framing square, and they fit very close. I was too little at the time to remember exactly how. I am in my 30's and that was almost 30 years ago :-\

[Carpenter]

You know, if he had nice square edges to work with (which he doesn't)  it would be easy to lay that out with a framing square.  With the live edges unless he had a reference point to work from I think he probably used the framing square as a straight edge to scribe with.  Much in the same way that they used the torpedo level in the video.   That's just my thought on the deal.  I may be totally wrong though.  I also used to have Roy Underhills book.  I loaned it out once and never got it back.  If you find a way that works I would be interested to know. 

[beenthere]

Carpenter
That was my thought as well. Just using it as a straight edge.
The calipers for getting the distance of the amount to remove seemed the most important "instrument" to get the cut/chop line in the right place.
Look forward to learning more about it too.

[Bibbyman]

In search for books by Roy Underhill,  I came across his Woodright's show on PBS.

Maybe everyone else knows about the site but I found it very interesting.

Here is one on dovetail.  He says at the end he'll do one on log cabins but it'd be another show.  I didn't find that show.

http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2600/2613.html

[moonhill]

That is a nice video. 

Bibby, why do you have to stick the just the framing square?  Do you know for sure the fellow you first mentioned "did not" use a set of dividers?  His wife could have just left that part out.  As pointed out already the little level could be switch to a level and achieve the same end, although it may be used to gain the vertical cuts, buy it appears he is just connecting the dots. 

I have used an axe a fair bit and liked how he was using his.  That axe is not cheap but worth the money.  I have one like it and want a longer handle on it, someday.  A simple set of tools to construct such a structure. 

Is this something you are going to build or is it out of curiosity?

I would like to build such a structure sometime. 

Tim

[Bibbyman]

I pulled up the video again to show it to Mary.  I noted this time that he used a plywood template to mark out the top face.  I hadn't seen that before.

Well, most likely the guy in Licking used the same method. 

Am I planning to build one?  Maybe a dowg house side to see how it would work. 

And kind of back of my mind if things got really slow, it could be something I could put together like he's doing and sale it to someone passing by.  Maybe get more work sawing out lumber to complete the project. 

Last summer we sawed out quite a little bit for a young man rebuilding an old log cabin and turning it into a hunting cabin on his place.  Now a friend of his has the same kind of project going on.

In the Roy Underhill video he mention a 1/6 slope to the dovetail was pretty much standard.  Looks like the video above used the same plywood template for the end as the sides so I figure maybe 1/6 each way.

[beenthere]

............In the Roy Underhill video he mention a 1/6 slope to the dovetail was pretty much standard.  Looks like the video above used the same plywood template for the end as the sides so I figure maybe 1/6 each way.

And this slope may be the reason for using the framing square...in addition to using it for a line marker.  And suspect it could be used in place of the calipers (although not as easy). I remember that plywood template too. Maybe makes for a neater corner if the ends are near the same size?  or not...

[bama20a]

In the book Fox Fire,there is a chapter on cabin building.The way they did it years ago,Have you got any of them?

[Bibbyman]

In the book Fox Fire,there is a chapter on cabin building.The way they did it years ago,Have you got any of them?

I had a couple of the first ones.  Don't know for sure what happened to them.  Son may have "borrowed" them.

[ickirby]

...it looks quite doable.  If I just knew how.

You are right Bibbyman it is very doable.  We have given some square timber cabin building workshops and it is not rocket science by any means to make a simple cabin.  Don't get me wrong there is definitely an art to it that will only ever be achieved with years of experience to make the works of art you see in magazines.  However to get a cabin that will keep the rain off your head and warm you up in the winter it is pretty simple (if you can keep a saw mill running and mill straight lumber most of the time this is a piece of cake).

Laying out the dovetails with a framing square is pretty straight forward but to make all the joints, jigs are definitely the way to go. 

Click on image for larger view


Click on image for larger view

In the Roy Underhill video he mention a 1/6 slope to the dovetail was pretty much standard.

That slope is pretty adaptable but it really is just a matter of personal preference for the look you want and the size of timbers you want as well as the gap between courses;  simply adjust accordingly.  I believe the drawings I made above are 1:6 slope I can't remember now, but the important thing is that all the angles match and that there is enough "meat" left in the timber for the structure to hold together. 

Looks like the video above used the same plywood template for the end as the sides so I figure maybe 1/6 each way.

The same jig can (read should)be used for the sidewalls and the gable walls.  There is a different jig for the top side right end of the timbers and the top side left end of the timbers (if looking from outside the cabin) and the jig for the bottom can be used on either the right or left end of the timbers.

I don't have any photos here of the cabins that we built, I'll post one or two tomorrow.  We have built cabins out of 6"x6" and 8"x10" and the process is always the same.  Design the joint how you want it to look with some small short pieces.  Once you are happy make some jigs line up some timbers and fire up the chainsaw.

I know this is not quite the same style you inquired about above but, I like the results and thought I'd throw it out there for anyone who was interested.

   

[donny hochstetler]

Utube has some nice videos one is called dovetailor jig a little pricey but would be nice for a dummy like me  :D maybe i'll build me a cabin looks like fun 8)

[Bibbyman]

Just my thoughts .. as I don't really know...

No doubt fixtures would work well if you have logs sawn on all four sides.  But if you have logs hewn or sawed on two sides with a "live" top and bottom,  I don't know how that would work so well.  I'd think you'd have to custom fit each notch as shown in the video and each log would have it's place.

Does that sound right?

[witterbound]

I think I'd snap a line right down the middle of one of the flat sides.  I'd then do all my layout from that line.  That way one end's dovetail would be square with the other end's.

[tmroper]

Bibbyman,
I found what you are looking for by accident. I went to some antique shops this weekend looking for a good old axe, adze and broad axe needed to rebuild an old bunkhouse here on the ranch.  Didn't have any luck there but I found a foxfire book it's the one on log cabin building.  The have an entire section with pictures in all showing how to lay out log with a square they even cut there's in with an axe.  In short it says lay your first log down sqaure up and cut in top dovetail 30-45degs once you have the first two parallel log to done lay second log on top and cut flat spot where dove tail will go.  Lay second log on top of first log and w/ square flat agaist the 1st logs dovetail pencil in. Roll over the second log so that you can now cut dovetail you just marked. 
I am sorry this is probably clear as mud. But if you would like to get this book and can't find it I would be willing to help or if the weather gets better I would be will to do one and take pictures it looks pretty simple. I really enjoyed this book it is a pretty simple approach to doing things and shows quite a few different techniques.
Just let me know if I can help or re explain

[Bibbyman]

Bibbyman,
I found what you are looking for by accident.

.....

Just by chance I was looking for something else on the bookshelf and found our copy of the Foxfire book.  I just came back to tell what I'd found.

Same as what you said and pretty much as I figured,  the old timers kind of went at the whole process in an informal way.  Each cabin builder had their own way of doing things and it wasn't nearly as complicated as we more modern people try to make it.

The guy in the pictures used a steel straight edge (could have been the large side of a carpenter square) to transcribe a parallel line from the bottom notch face to the log to be cut.

One thing about the Foxfire directions;  It looked like the notch only sloped one way.   The notches on the cabin in Licking sloped in two directions.

[frwinks]

found this while researchin' and remembered someone was after this info...
looks like Bibbyman found the info already, but still a good read IMO
both techniques use the the 'ol mighty square...and make me wonder why the heck I'm TF'n  :D
Click here for link

[Bibbyman]

Thanks!  I think we have that book around here someplace. 

Nice thing about getting old,  a lot of things you use to know are new again! 8)