Deep Vertical Swing Mill Cuts in Hardwoods?

[terrifictimbersllc]

Would like to hear details of how swingers deal with making deep vertical cuts in hardwoods.   For example quarter sawing a large white or red oak or sycamore.  Don't QS boards off the top and the bottom of the log need deep vertical cuts 8-10" deep?  Are you making these in one pass?   If 2 or more passes, then isn't this very time consuming winding the mill up and down?  

Seems like quartersawing ability of swing mills is held as one of the advantages, yet these cuts must be most demanding and time consuming.  To get a good board without over heating the blade I mean.

[weisyboy]

verticle cuts are no trouble, so long as you have enough HP to up it threw, i can make full 8" cuts in Aussie hardwood, so long as you have sharp blades your saw will not overheat and will cut fairly fast,

i get a feed speed of about 6''/second in hardwood, and twice that in softwood. that is doing a full 8" deep cut, it uses every ounce of the 25hp and if i had more hp i could go faster.

the only trouble i have in deep cuts is if the blade is out of alignment or not sharp and it will try and pull sideways and bind.

the horizontal normally has to be done in 2 passes or it will sag and bind. in soft wood i can do a 6" cut but an 8" is to much, in hardwood 4" normally pulls me up.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Hey any Lucas or Peterson 10" owners out there?  Do these mills make 10" vertical cuts in hardwoods in one pass, no problem, all day long?? :P :P :P

[Part_Timer]

My mill is an 8" and I have no problems making them in one pass.  I've also seen the 10"'s do it in one pass also.  Like was said above, need plenty of HP.  paying attention to feed rate and the angle and sharpness of your blade is very important as well.

[Jeff]

one pass, no problem, all day long

You don't mean that you want to use this as an everyday production type mill do you?

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

Tt 10' cuts with the 10-30 hardwood are alot quicker than an 8" cut in hardwood was with the 8-20 was  ;) ;D 8) 8) with the saws heating up i have never had a problem you just have to make sure you are sharpening the tooth square and your keeping enough water up to the blade when you are sawing not too much though  ;)  ;D 8)

Jeff Tt also  sent me a pm he wants to use it as an addition to his custom milling operation so he can cope with the larger logs quicker easier than with his hyd bandmill Mate  ;)

Regards Chris

[terrifictimbersllc]

No not continuous sawing really Jeff.  Instead all day long so far as swing milling several big logs in a day goes.  A bit of exaggeration trying to get some feedback as to whether 10" mills perform well at full depth capacity.  It would be quite a pain it seems to have to make multiple passes lowering the mill to get these full depth cuts if they don't.  If I get a 10" mill my perception is that there are sacrifices, in addition to cost, in using it for applications where 8" would suffice.  These being increased kerf, more work to push, and the larger blade being more problematic for losing tension or having wobble.  The benefit is the wider/deeper cut.  I would rather get a 10", but if the 10"  don't perform well at full capacity then I would reconsider.  I am 100% portable cutting for customers and with a 10" I can offer wider boards than with an 8".

[sgschwend]

My experience is limited and my machine is different than the ones you are looking at, it uses a table just like the bandmills.
I set mine up stationary, with power feed, power swing, and eventually dual log turners. 

I have formed the opinion that the power feed helps the saw cut those deep cuts.  I have designed the feed to have some force feedback which I think helps too.

I am finding similar feed speeds as WB posted.

[LOGDOG]

Terrifictimbersllc,

   I had the Peterson ASM 10" model with a 27 h.p. Kohler on it. It performed better in the vertical cuts than it did in the horizontal cut when you were burying the blade. Horizontal wide cuts I double cut everything over 6" wide. There was a lot of sideways give. The blade has more weight and resistance against it when you're taking the vertical cut and it doesn't hop as bad. I could pull full depth cuts in the vertical plane. However, there's now a swinger out there yet that I've seen that I'd want to do it day in, day out with.

   Althought this Turb-O-Saw of Jakes looks like it has some promise. He's addressed some of the weak points in the other mills. More h.p. , a stronger, stiffer main beam so the saw shouldn't resist staying in those wide cuts. The blade is unique too. I think those holes would not only help keep the blade cool but probably act as rakes to when it comes to cleaning sawdust out of the cut.

   If not the Turb-O-Saw I'd look real hard at the big Mighty Mite mills with up to 100 h.p.  diesels or big 3 phase motors on them. 2 saw and 3 saw units, available with hydraulic log handling tables. Meant for doing it day in and day out. They're not that much more expensive than a Turb-O-Saw or ASM. Nice second hand units can be found very reasonably.

Just my two cents.

[LOGDOG]

This might be a Mobile Dimension. If not, a Mighty mite. Is this the performance you're looking for? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1ShorYbs1Y

[okie]

I owned a Lucas mill and loved it and the limited cutting dimensions is really the only thing I disliked about it. Peterson mills, from what I understand, easily double cut making a 16" wide cut possible with their 8" mill. I personally didn't like the process of double cutting with the Lucas and avoided it like the plague. I would try both the 10" Lucas and 8" Peterson before I made a decision if wide boards are what you're after. Another plus for the 8" Peterson is that Forum member "Captain" (if he still does) can supply insert tooth blades which I would have flipped over with my Lucas.
Just my $.02 worth.

[terrifictimbersllc]

This might be a Mobile Dimension. If not, a Mighty mite. Is this the performance you're looking for? 

That would be nice but feels like putting one of my records on 78 rpm!! 

[LOGDOG]

He must run Super Unleaded in there huh?  ;D

[scsmith42]

Hey any Lucas or Peterson 10" owners out there?  Do these mills make 10" vertical cuts in hardwoods in one pass, no problem, all day long?? :P :P :P

I have a Peterson 10" WPF, and I routinely make 10" deep vertical cuts in oak.  It works ok as long as you slow down the feed rate so that the carriage does not bounce up and down too much.

I have a 27 hp Kohler - more HP would be better.

[NZJake]

I've always disliked that bounce issue.

Thats why we've got a massive 450mmx450mm beam on our machine. We haven't had bounce as yet. Then again we haven't cut Iron Bark with it...

Our saw cuts 12" in a single pass no sweat in either planes (cutting NZ hardwood, Saligna). The difference between cuting the horizontal in two passes compared to a single pass could be timed our end next time. I believe it's faster to cut it in two passes (at least with the powerfeed).

Typically when we're production milling we start horizontal first 6". Flip the blade vertical at the other end, move it over an additional 6". Return cutting the 2" vertical (or what ever size your doing). Flip Horizontal. Finish the horizontal 12" and return the board ready for the next run.

We've found this process to be the most productive.

12" vertical we don't bother cutting in 2 passes. We just motor through it.

We're just about completion of our stainless production model so I'll get some videos up with the mill cutting full depth in both styles.

Jake.

[weisyboy]

it not ironbark you gota worrie about cutting it cuts great,

its spotted gum and brushbox that cause problems.

i never have a bounce issue in the horasontal the stuff i cut is hard and wet and the blade just slows up, with lets it dish and pulls down and jams if i try more than a 5" horizontal.

[sigidi]

I've happily cut 10" verticals with Bo Derek and have found the anti bounce strut on it works a dream. I've got the 10-30 and it doesn't have trouble - only if something is off, like bad sharpening, carriage not square etc. would be problems, but to date none for me  ;D 8)

[sgschwend]

A small amount of pitch on the saw can cause trouble. 

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

Welcome Back and thanks for Becoming a Sponsor Jake  ;)  ;D You are building a tidy looking Mill there it should do well Mate  ;) ;D 8) 8) With your mill cutting Ironbark like carl said its not the worst we have here  ;) :D ;D Box or anything that has a cross hatched grain  is the pita around home here Ive cut about 5000bft of it over the last 12 months without any dramas  ;) Id also like to se your time difference between double cutting in horizontal verses single pass too as I dont think it would be much different Mate  ;)

With bounce i have no problem going upto 8  or 10" deep with out seeing alot of it you just have to vary your feed speed to suit what your sawing  ;) im one of these blokes that only uses the anti bounce when needed it all depends what im sawing i have done 8" and 10" deep cuts 25-27' long  in Ironbark using the ext kit with the two center stay posts with out needing to put the bounce strut down as the rails are pretty stiff when they are supported at 12' to 15' anyway  ;) ;D 8) 8) 8) the only time i have had to use the anti bounce on and off  is if im sawing logs in the 16' to 20' mark while having the two winch frames at the 20' spacing  ;) Thats why i keep my frames only about 14' apart when im sawing 8 to 12 foot lengths which i load under the mill with the loader  and thats what i mostly saw  ;)  ;D ;D 8) 8)

Another thing to take into consideration here is that we are not paying mega bucks for our mills fellas  ;) :D ;D  and for the price they do an awesome job  ;) ;D ;D 8) 8)

Regards Chris

[terrifictimbersllc]

Anyone know if a new 10-30 WPF is stiffer than a 10-30 lucas for vertical or horizontal movement?  Can you tell the difference in the 8-10" lumber cut between the two?

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

From what i have seen after having swung on both mills I reckon there's 2/3ds of Bugger all in it between the Two Mate  ;) and with anyone who sees all the little points of issue with Any Machine on a regular basis are usually Very Aggressive Operators  ??? :  in My opinion Mate  ;)  :D :D ;D 

It sounds like your having a hard time picking which mill would be just rite for you atm and like I say to anyone (and I ment to say in my Pm ;) ) Is  you have to pick which one you feel that you would be happy with as buying any piece of equipment comes down a personal decision at the end of the day you have to be happy with it Mate  ;) ;D ;D 8) 8)

Regards Chris