Standing Walnut Price

[Smallmill]

I had a local licensed timber buyer out to look at some walnuts. I can mill myself but want to check out my options. I feel like it may be easier and possibly more profitable to sell the trees on the stump and let someone else deal with getting them to market.

 I was offered $1.50/ bd ft on "lumber" trees. And $4/ bd ft on a few "veneer" trees. I have no idea what the market is and if this is a fair price? I'm in central Indiana. 

On another note,  the guy is licensed by the state with "16 years experience", however didn't have a tape measure or pen and paper to write anything down.  He also guessed at the dbh and length of logs per tree and guesstimated the board footage in each tree.  Which i wrote down and gave him a copy of his own estimates. He then made me an offer before we even got out of the woods, to which I replied I have no idea what they're worth and would have to measure each tree myself to see what the board footage may be. He has since texted me twice with offers higher than his original offer but the board footage in his newer offers are less than he guesstimate in the woods. Something seems off and I'm looking for a few second opinions.

[beenthere]

Suggest you go measure the trees yourself and mark or tape them for identification. You also can estimate the quality/grade of each tree, at least the first 12-16ft of the trunk. Give them a high, medium, or low grade. The underlying quality is evident in the bark.
 Just don't leave it up to chance, and/or leave it up to a guess by the buyer. Obviously the buyer is looking to make the most money he/she can get, it's up to you to know as much as possible on your end. 
If you can't come to an agreement with the buyer and the trees don't sell, they will just continue to grow and add more volume for a future sale. 

[TreefarmerNN]

Either your buyer is the smartest guy around with a photographic memory or is just quoting a price that's low enough to take care of errors.

When I have a timber cruise done, the consultant has a worksheet to tally trees and volumes.  He's pretty good about being able to walk through the woods and give an estimate but when it comes down to a potential sale the tally sheet comes out and it's much more precise. 

You might end up selling to this guy but get a good estimate of volume and quality some other way. 

[Jeff]

I don't like this scenario at all.  If it was me, I'd keep researching.  We have tree value calcs in our tool box here you could use

[rusticretreater]

Its a lot of work and I have no idea the size of the stand you are selling, but if you could get three estimates you would have a true indicator of what its worth.  You will end up with a high, low and middle estimate, even though the high estimate is still kinda low. 

[scsmith42]

Around here, $1.50 bd ft to the landowner for black walnut sawlogs on the stump is a pretty fair price.  Many mills only offer $1.00.

I can't advise re the price for the veneer though.

[Ron Scott]

Have an independent professional certified consulting forester serving your area do a certified volume and value appraisal of your harvestable timber.

That would then be the minimum appraised value upon which to sell your timber on a high bid sale to interested timber buyers.

 

[NewYankeeSawmill]

Have an independent professional certified consulting forester serving your area do a certified volume and value appraisal of your harvestable timber.

Yeah, it may cost you a couple bucks, but... You know what your stuff is worth now. It will also help you sell the wood to a logger.
"Here's what this professional forester said the wood is worth, what's your bid?" It helps the logger, as well. It declares the 'fair market value' of the standing wood.

[barbender]

I would second Ron's advice. 

[Ron Wenrich]

There was a time when I was a procurement forester.  I had to compete with other timber buyers, so I got to learn some of their tactics.

We had one guy that would always be offering high prices for his stumpage.  He also sold a lot of his logs to the mill I worked at, and I even scaled and graded his logs.  Something didn't add up.  One day, me and another forester drove past a job he was cutting.  Looking at the job, the logger only took the butt log and only paid stumpage for that volume.  The rest of the tree was left in the woods. 

So, I have to wonder about the $4/bf price on veneer trees.  Is that for the whole tree or for only the butt log?  I suspect the second cuts will end up being $1.50/bf, which would reduce the $4/bf on veneer trees.

Another case is the good old percentage rule that is used by some buyers.  In this case, the logger was giving the landowner 60% on the #1 logs and veneer, 40% on the #2 logs.  When I asked about the #3 logs, well, they took them along as a courtesy.  That sure brings down the price of the stumpage...if you know what the volume count is before the cut.

You do need to know what that volume count is before you sell a single stick of wood.  You can do it yourself, but make sure that you and the logger are talking about the same log scale being used.  You can do some grading if you want.  Just realize that most of the value of a tree is in the 1st log, especially on veneer quality.

As beenthere has stated, mark or tag the trees.  Let the logger know that you expect to have a contract and to be paid before the trees are cut.  If he doesn't like that, then maybe you should pass on the offer.  You'll be taking most of the risk.

[Smallmill]

These guys will turn you around in circles if you let em.

[Ron Wenrich]

Sometimes, when you shake hands with these guys, you have to count the fingers on your hand.

Not all loggers are like that.  There are honest ones out there.  You still have to know what you're selling, and what they're buying.

[Smallmill]

I've learned to do your homework before you call a buyer.  I took my own tally so I know what I have.  My bd footage estimates have been pretty close to what I've been quoted. 

My biggest problem is getting buyers out to look at them to get other opinions, seems all the good ones are busy. I may go the easy route and take them to town myself.