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Any suggestions on the type of loader to buy

Started by kkcomp, January 25, 2025, 08:13:24 AM

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kkcomp

Looking to buy a stronger piece of equipment for moving logs and boards around. What type of equipment should i get, a tractor, CTL/ Skid steer, regular backhoe etc. Assuming of course whatever it is will be able to handle a variety of attachments.
Why is there never time to do it right but always time to do it over?
Rework is the bane of my existence
Norwood HD38 Kubota B3300HSU Honda Rancher many Stihl and Echo saws, JCB 1400b Backhoe

taylorsmissbeehaven

JMTC here. I bought a Kubota 65 CTL. It is their small unit but fit my budget and has been a real game changer for me. I am always impressed with my 30 hp New Holland tractor's ability to get the job done but the loader with forks and a grapple makes things go much faster. Putting the two together gives me a ton of ability to bring in logs and take away both product and scrap with ease. My back loves it!! Im sure others have good ideas as well
Opportunity is missed by most because it shows up wearing bib overalls and looks like work.

Nebraska

What other than sawmill tasks does this piece of equipment need to do.  Snow removal, hay/field work, skidding logs, excavation, grading etc. It is kind of a what itch needs scratching the worst. 
I'd say go up 25 to 50 hp on a tractor or a tracked skid loader. With quick attach capability. 

Hackeldam Wood Products

check out outdoors with the Morgans on you tube he uses a mini skid, if you don't plan on other uses for a tractor it looks like a nice unit. A skid steer is a pain to get in and out of a hundred times a day.


I have a 35hp New Holland tractor and a old Ford backhoe.
Woodmizer LT 40
New Holland 35 hp tractor
Stihl Chainsaws
Ford 340 Backhoe

Brad_bb

Skid steers are herky jerky and not the best choice for handling lumber and logs.  They are a compromise. Tracked machines are worse. I use a tractor converted forklift.  It will lift 2500-2700 LBS.  It will do about 97% of what I need to do.  It will go off road too, but is basically an open rear end so a little finesse is necessary in snow and ice.

I do have a large tracked skid steer if I need to lift and move something heavier, but not and ideal machine for regular use in this capacity.

With that said, another option that I've seen sawmill guys use is one of the smallest boom forklifts(aka telehandler etc). One guy I know has one that he bought at auction of former rental equipment.  those are rough terrain, four wheel drive, have good lifting capacity, and the extending boom can be handy too.  With 4 wheel steering they can turn fairly tight too, but not sure if the small ones have that?  This is important to me for turning in my buildings, and in general.  The downside is that the snall telehandlers are a lot more expensive used than say my tractor forklift.  But if your operation can afford it.... a good machine. 

 
PS.  Vilibility can be a varying issue with all machines.  I can see my fork tips pretty well with my tractor forklift, with my skid steer it's downright awful!  With the telehandler you can probably see the forks pretty well, but you are obscured somewhat by the boom on your right side when maneuvering, depending on your boom position.  Your sitting down on one side as compared to my tractor forklift where I'm sitting up high with 360 all around.  Again, skidsteer is worst visibility of your fork tips, and you can't see behind and some of the sides are obscured.  Early on I backed into a post/stemwall on my building.  Broke out the post bracket anchors from the stem wall the pushed the post and wall out a little.  Luckily I wasn't going too fast and it was repairable, but a little faster and I would have had a much more expensive problem on my hands.  Backing into something is a real danger with skid steers.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

barbender

All I've ever had is a rubber tired skid steer.  It's not ideal for every task, but it is incredibly versatile. Down sides are getting in and out of it, and it tears up the mill yard. 

As others mentioned, some of the OTM "other than milling😁" uses will probably determine the best machine for you. I do a lot of clearing, digging, etc where that skid steer with steel OTT's becomes another animal. 
Too many irons in the fire

rusticretreater

We really need to know some more specifics before we decide how to spend your money.  Is this just a yard tractor to move logs and lumber?  Is this an all-purpose tractor needed to dig, clear brush, do logging, skid logs, pull things?  Somewhere in between?  Do tell!
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Southside

For material handling you simply can not beat a telehandler. Hands down they excel in lifting capacity, reach, maneuvering, etc. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
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Dave Shepard

Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

longtime lurker

Nothing comes close to a wheel loader handling logs, or packs of lumber in a rough yard. Add a bucket for sawdust and chip and they are a mainstay of most commercial milling operations. I like mine around the 30k lb size.... 938 Cat or equivalent... I don't see too many logs that stretch it capacity wise but the real reason for capacity is the ability to sort log piles fast. Shifting 50 logs one at a time against 4 at a time is time consuming.

Forklifts are the kings of warehousing due to their compact size, tight turning circle and high lift ability. They're also great on a handstand. Figure your average pack weight and double it for the best compromise machine. The problem with machines working to capacity is the pack you can lift easily in the shed is a problem child when trying to place it on the far side of a truck using slippers. Mine is great for tight space warehousing but sometimes too small loading trucks.... the loader covers that gap.

Everything else I've tried is a compromise.  But compromise is good when you need a machine to multi-task to pay its way. I've tried telehandlers, 4wd forklifts, backhoes - never seen a skid steer big enough for what we do here but that doesn't mean it can't work somewhere else - farm tractors with loader frames... wheel loaders from tiny to excessively large.

To me the question is what do you need it to do around your sawmill, and what could you use it for away from your sawmill to help ease the pain of buying it. Toys are fun, but toys that pay their way are funner.




The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

kkcomp

Quote from: rusticretreater on January 25, 2025, 01:25:14 PMWe really need to know some more specifics before we decide how to spend your money.  Is this just a yard tractor to move logs and lumber?  Is this an all-purpose tractor needed to dig, clear brush, do logging, skid logs, pull things?  Somewhere in between?  Do tell!
I have a Kubota 33hp tractor, a full size backhoe and mini excavator for most OTM/ non-mill type of work. The only one that can lift a decent size log is the backhoe. Unfortunately, it is cumbersome to maneuver and my space is a bit limited. A bigger tractor would allow for more lifting but still have size issue just not as much. but a bigger tractor could also replace the Kubota.  A CTL/ skid would allow more space but as others have said is not really smooth per say. Since much of the property i will be using it on is hills I am guessing the CTL with a lower center of gravity would be beneficial. What the question really comes down to is do I add another piece of equipment to cover the shortcomings of the others or is there a jack of all trades I should be looking for. If it helps I have no commercial ambitions, I use the mill for my own work and pleasure.
Why is there never time to do it right but always time to do it over?
Rework is the bane of my existence
Norwood HD38 Kubota B3300HSU Honda Rancher many Stihl and Echo saws, JCB 1400b Backhoe

KWood255

There's no perfect machine. I have a Kubota M7060 loader tractor, with a variety of loader attachments. I went to the tractor after having 3 skid steers during the previous 15 years or so. I find my tractor much more universal for moving logs, sawdust, snow and everything in between. It's warm, comfortable and has great visibility. I do not miss crawling in and out of skid steers. My tractor gets around in softer/wet ground much better then my skid steers, although a modern track machine would likely do much better. 

My loader will lift/carry a little over 3000lbs. On purpose, I keep my lifts of finished softwood products to about 1000bf so they are manageable with the tractor. 

With the tractor, I have a trailer hitch mounted to my 3PH nearly all the time, unless my snowblower is on. It's so convenient for moving trailers around the yard. 

I also have a Kubota KX033-4 mini ex. I use it primarily for selecting particular logs from the piles if I have custom orders to fill. I find myself spending more time in the ex vs tractor. My next equipment upgrade would likely be to a KX57 sized excavator, although the little 33 is very impressive. 

A JD 544/644 wheel loader would certainly have benefits for me as well, as it could be used for off-loading log trucks if equipped with forks or a clam. Fortunately we have a couple logging contractors with picker trucks, so that hasn't yet been a serious problem. 

doc henderson

I have limited space so the spin in a circle is sometimes needed.  could back out with a tractor.  what is the largest log your mill will handle?  what would it weigh?  I got a 4-foot diameter 12-foot-long oak log that my ctl would not lift but could scoot along the ground.  It has dried to the point I can lift it.  I almost always set right on the mill from forks or grapple.  I think a track/skid loader adaptor has so many options for tools.  As mentioned, I can haul the loader and still have room for 9k pounds of wood on my gooseneck.  My 277c is also pre-def. ffsmiley
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

jpassardi

If the other use is excavation and it's the only machine you plan to buy a fullsize 4x4 backhoe is hard to beat for the $. My skid steer sits under the sawmill shed mostly, I nearly always use the CAT 416 BH. If you get an IT (integrated tool carrier) one, they're ideal for using the forks.
LT15 W/Trailer, Log Turner, Power Feed & up/down
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kkcomp

Quote from: doc henderson on January 26, 2025, 09:31:13 AMI have limited space so the spin in a circle is sometimes needed.  could back out with a tractor.  what is the largest log your mill will handle?  what would it weigh?  I got a 4-foot diameter 12-foot-long oak log that my ctl would not lift but could scoot along the ground.  It has dried to the point I can lift it.  I almost always set right on the mill from forks or grapple.  I think a track/skid loader adaptor has so many options for tools.  As mentioned, I can haul the loader and still have room for 9k pounds of wood on my gooseneck.  My 277c is also pre-def. ffsmiley
Maximum of what I expect to handle is 3 foot diameter and 12 foot length
Why is there never time to do it right but always time to do it over?
Rework is the bane of my existence
Norwood HD38 Kubota B3300HSU Honda Rancher many Stihl and Echo saws, JCB 1400b Backhoe

doc henderson

If it is mostly hobby, you may go with a deal on a used machine, rather than decide on the "perfect" machine.  There are always pros and cons for any machine.  Ideally mine would only weigh 4K and lift 6K.  that does not exist to my knowledge.  If you run across a good deal, see how it fits your needs based in part on this discussion.  good luck!   :thumbsup:
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

rusticretreater

Consult a wood weight per foot chart to determine how much that log will weigh.  Then you can do analysis on the lifting power of tractors.  You will need to subtract the weight of the attachment being used to arrive at a ballpark figure. 

When looking at tractors/CTL/skid steers, examine the attachments available for costs comparisons. Some stuff is wayyyyy more expensive than others.  Are attachments readily available or a $ingle $ource $upplier? 
Woodland Mills HM130 Max w/ Lap siding upgrade
Kubota BX25
Wicked Grapple, Wicked Toothbar
Homemade Log Arch
Big Tex 17' trailer with Log Arch
Warn Winches 8000lb and 4000lb
Husqvarna 562xp
2,000,000th Forestry Forum Post

Brad_bb

My tractor converted forklift is so ideal for me because
It's rough terrain
Turns tight inside
smooth ride
good visibility
can lift better than an FEL becuase the weight is closer to the pivot point(large wheels)
It's smaller so takes up less room in the building
easier to work on when needed
was much less expensive than any of the other alternatives

Mine is sized for what I do.  I could not pick up a 36" green oak, but I did that with ash and 30"walnut. I can pick and move a 4x8 palled of 4/4 or 5/4 boards 35" tall. 

You could buy a tractor converted forklift that is bigger than mine and still be in a reasonable cost range.  I paid $4400 for mine back in 2013.  Bigger ones today can be had for $7000-$10000. 
An FEL of the same size as tractor conversion cannot pick up as much due to the distance from the fulcrum.

I would not trade my tractor forklift for a small telehandler because of the advantages I listed that the telehandler doesn't have-cost, visibility, tightest turning.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

doc henderson

skid and track loaders can spin on a dime.  nice in a tight situation.  if you plan to go pick up logs then you need to do math.  bigger might seem better.  my 277c can lift 3500+ and weighs 9k.  I have a 24 k gooseneck that weighs 6k.  so down to 18 k, net.  take another 9k and now I can haul 9k in logs if I need the track loader to pick them up.  I thought about a bigger one but then it weighs 11 k so then could only carry 7k. 
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Dave Shepard

You need to put 15% on the truck, freeing up more carrying capacity on your trailer. :thumbsup:
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

doc henderson

Dave, are you saying I can go over 15% of need to put logs in the truck? ffsmiley ffsmiley ffsmiley   I assume the truck is a given and the max gross weight is 24K.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Dave Shepard

The trailer has two 12k axles, presumably. You should have up to to 15% of your trailer weight on the goose. 10% on a bumper hitch. So, you put 3,600# on your truck, and you can still load those axles to 12k#. Obviously,  the truck has to be heavy enough, but IIRC it's a dually, so should be good for it. Basically, you have two things to look at. The axle ratings, and the truck mfg's allowable towing capacity. 
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

doc henderson

I think the truck is 26K on the towing, so you are prob. right.  It is not like I can weigh the logs and have most likely been there or more a time or two! Thanks Dave.   :wink_2: :thumbsup:
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

scsmith42

Quote from: kkcomp on January 25, 2025, 08:13:24 AMLooking to buy a stronger piece of equipment for moving logs and boards around. What type of equipment should i get, a tractor, CTL/ Skid steer, regular backhoe etc. Assuming of course whatever it is will be able to handle a variety of attachments.

KK, of the recommendations, made by others in this thread, I have or have used literally just about everything they have recommended.

if I could only have one single piece of equipment that I used to handle logs, handle stacks of lumber, and moved sawdust around, It would be my Cat 420 DIT backhoe. 

With that machine, I can pick up 8000 pounds of logs or lumber, I can quickly change between forks and the bucket for handling sawdust, I could put a custom-made grapple on the front if I wanted to use that for handling Slab off cuts. 

It's not necessarily the best machine for each individual task, but it is without question the best single machine for all tasks. It will pick up over twice as much as my skid steer, and will pick up almost twice as much as the tele handler. 

If money is not a concern then a large tele handler and a compact track loader or skid steer would be my alternative choice. 

I can say this, I would definitely have the farm tractor lower on the list than the backhoe because of the greatly reduced lifting capacity. Hope this helps
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Peter Drouin

I like my telehandler LULL 1044 It will pick up 10.000+ lb and reach 34' out. Nice if I want to get a liff of lumber in the back without moving everything out. Stack pallets as high as I dare to. ffcheesy  It will reach 54' high. I can take the forks off and put on a 5-yard bucket to load TT trucks with sawdust or chips. I never had a log I couldn't move 40' long.
I have a John Deer 5410 80-horse 4x4 with a bucket and 6' wide grapple and forks.. Heat and ac. I have a 12.000 lb Wallinsteen winch on the back to log with.
I use it for small things like loading woodchips on pickups.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

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