quatersawn recoverey

[JustinW_NZ]

Hi all

Hey what sort of recovery would you expect to get from a log if quarter sawing? (for maximum quarter or rift wood)
60% , 70%?

Cheers
Justin

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Hi all

Hey what sort of recovery would you expect to get from a log if quarter sawing? (for maximum quarter or rift wood)
60% , 70%?

Cheers
Justin

I really don't know Justin. I've seen big logs with a lot of sapwood and very little good heart. I've sawn smaller logs that's mostly heart. I try to get as much good quarter sawn heart as I can at what ever I saw. But to be honest, I don't know the %.

[beenthere]

Justin
Down to what width will you recover?

Have seen yields at around 90% if recovering down to 1" width destined for edge gluing from a WM band mill, and short length logs.

[5quarter]

depends on the method you use and your definition of what is quartersawn. If you want true quartersawn (90° to the growth rings)  some patterns will yield a high %, others not so much. If you call anything between 60° and 90° quartersawn, then your % will be higher. a good rule of thumb is the higher the yield of true QS, the greater the waste. What kinds of trees do you have there in The Shire that would benefit in appearence from the extra work?

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

I would estimate that with the definition of quarter sawing including perhaps 45 to 90 degrees of ring angle to the face, you might get 90% of flat sawing.  But, as mentioned, with tighter requirements, which would happen when there would be ray fleck characteristics required, then it could drop to 60-70%. 

However, often the edge of a QS piece of lumber is so close to the pith that it has lots of knots and other defects.  So, oftentimes, the QS piece needs to be ripped on one edge to eliminate such defects.  The ripped strip has no value as lumber, so this can easily add another 10% loss.

[woodyone.john]

Justin, when sawing saligna or botryiodes for flooring I would be lucky to get 50% when sawing for flooring ie 3x1 up from 500 sed logs. small logs need to be short logs so as to reuce tension. By the time you saw off the sap  and box out the core,120 squared [allowing 4 @ 110x27 +3 for kerf].so on a 500 sed from the pith 60 for core,130m for your 110 board [allowing 20 mm for straightening] and about 60- 70 for sap there aint much left. All my fillets are eac and the gluts are cores. Someone else here can do the maths but if you consider I most of the product the yeild goes up,if its what i get to sell then some times I work cheap. I do sell  very straight boards and they dont need floor cramps to put the floor together.[this depends on which procesor,profiler,I use. The best person to talk to about sawing euc would be Peter D-C and then maybe Dean Satch. cheers john

[Kansas]

I think it depends on what you quartersaw. We won't qs a bur oak less than 24 inches in diameter, same as sycamore. So you can already expect little overrun on the Doyle scale, no matter how you saw it. We true qs, so you will have more waste. And you won't have that block out of the middle that you can throw into pallet. But that isn't worth much anyway. Then there is what market you have for it. People will overlook some knots on a wide board. So if you are retailing, you can get away with some stuff you couldn't on the open market. So getting close to the pith isn't a big deal.

If I had to guess, on true qs, you would be at about 70% recovery. We never have done the math. It takes longer to do, but you get a lot better money. Sales also come easy from it. Have a few bur oak to do, I might do the math. Kind of curious myself now.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday Justin

Johns spot on with the 50% mark some big sawmills only get 35% some small sawmillers can be as high 60% of actual log volume . It  all depends on the log and what your going to push into q/sawn stock how much heart your going to eliminate, tension ,log size ,edging ect ect You can only Saw it n See where you come out at Mate  ;)

I take it you have someone wanting Q/sawn done or have a job coming up Mate  ???

Regards Chris

[JustinW_NZ]

Thanks for the replys, I think your on the money john and you read my mind, yes euc's are what im sawing and I figure my recovery is around that mark on that 500mm sed type log.
Im sure ive got higher on some softwoods ive done as less straighten waste.. and less sapwood to take out.

And 27mm flooring stock is what im starting to cut lots of (just hopfully got my first 50tons of nitens to saw for myself.)
And also yes just got a weeks milling on some very well kept forestry coming up so I want to make sure im not to far off the mark.

How much core wood do u box out/remove? I seem to go for about 10 rings (loosly)?

Cheers
Justin

[woodyone.john]

I take out 120mm because that gets me a 4 board cant either side of center.I square the log [pith centered] then nrxt cut is 60 mm above center . you can get it from there.

[NCDiesel]

Just a quick question:   I have noticed here, and elsewhere in the forum, the phrase "quarter sawn" used where I would have used "rift sawn"(perpendicular to growth rings).  Do I have this wrong?   To me quarter sawn is alternately sawing the two flat faces of each quarter of a log. Rift sawn is a true series of "fan cuts" made from the log quarter at 90 degrees to the growth rings.

Just curious.   Want to make sure I am using the terminology right.

[PC-Urban-Sawyer]

Just a quick question:   I have noticed here, and elsewhere in the forum, the phrase "quarter sawn" used where I would have used "rift sawn"(perpendicular to growth rings).  Do I have this wrong?   To me quarter sawn is alternately sawing the two flat faces of each quarter of a log. Rift sawn is a true series of "fan cuts" made from the log quarter at 90 degrees to the growth rings.

Just curious.   Want to make sure I am using the terminology right.

From the FF Dictionary:

Rift-sawn: Rift-sawing at a 30-degree or greater angle to the growth rings produces narrow boards with accentuated vertical or "straight" grain patterns. Rift-sawn boards are often favored for fine furniture and other applications where matching grain is important

Quarter-sawn: Lumber sawn so that the annual rings form angles of 45 to 90 degrees with the surface of the piece.

The method of QS you describe is only one of several that will produce QS material...

Herb

[woodyone.john]

Over here we may talk about q s but the merchants are more likely to talk about verticle grain which allows a greater % into the mix rather than true q s.

[pri0ritize]

Quartersawn is what you're describing as rift sawn. Rift sawn is somewhere between quartersawn and flat. Vertical grain is the same as quartersawn from my understanding.

[beenthere]

Vertical grain is as described, and usually just a term used in the softwood trades.

[woodyone.john]

Her there term is used across the board. :D ;D

[JustinW_NZ]

Her there term is used across the board. :D ;D

wha wha wahhhh...  :D

Justin

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

There was an incorrect definition posted on the Internet some years ago and unfortunately, this definition has seen wide distribution.

Maybe 50 years ago, we had only quarter and flat.  When the rings were 0 to 45 degrees angle to the face when viewed from the end grain, then it was flat.  And 45 to 90 was quarter.  As mentioned, 90 is vertical grain, but that is seldom used for hardwood lumber in North America.

For hardwoods, the NHLA defines quartersawn with species with heavy rays, as being lumber that shows the ray fleck.  Without the fleck, but with straight grain, rather than cathedrals of flat sawing, the lumber is rift.

I guess that the production of true quartersawn, when the rings were 75 to 90 degrees, resulted in large yield losses and slow production.  So, we started to quartersaw smaller logs by quartering the log and then sawing alternating faces...good yield and high production, but not much true QS.  The rings were 45 to 75 degrees to the face.  This is rift sawn.

I will try to post a picture tomorrow.

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

 

 
Hope this helps.  Quartersawn is the log in the rear.

[NCDiesel]

 
Hope this helps.  Quartersawn is the log in the rear.

Yea, that is why I asked.   The log in the rear is what I have always heard as rift sawn - pure 90 degrees to the face of the board.   Quarter sawn was the boards resulting from the technique of sawing the quarters of a log, which generally results in rings greater than 45 degrees to the face of the board - on early boards nearly 90 degrees .   Everything else was "run of the mill", or plain sawn.

Guess I have some more learning to do.