Need early sawmill information

[ArtoisDave]

I am historian and am looking for information on early sawmills. I have found the location of an early sawmill Maybe as early as 1847 near Red Bluff California. The saw was brought overland to California in 1845 by William B. Ide. It is / was located on a bend of the Sacramento River with a mill race of about 1 ½ miles. Rubbings of period timbers from a family barn indicate that the water powered saw was about 48 inches in diameter. It appears that the millrace may be larger near the mill, possibly to store logs??
William Ide was from New Hampshire and a wood worker by trade.

Any insight would be very welcomed.

Many Thanks,

Dave Freeman
Artois Ca. 

[VictorH]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum!!  I can't help you in your quest but I wish you luck in finding what you need.

Victor

[Solomon]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum Dave.   I am afraid I am not able to offer any help either, but there are many indiviuals on this forum who know many things about the industry as a whole.  Don't give up on us, someone is likely to log in after being off line for six months who has the imformation you're looking for and is very willing to share it with you.   Keep popping in to say hello' you're always welcome.   Pete.

[5quarter]

welcome Dave...Sounds like a fascinating topic to study. Have you searched the site for any remnants of the mill or the building? Have you checked local records (court, newspaper, government etc...) For any sort of activity on the property? There are quite a few left coasters here... with luck someone might have some info. since the saw was likely Manufactured in the Northeast, maybe someone knows of a few Co.s that were building mills there during the 1830's-40's. quite a feat bringing a piece of hardware like that over land such a distance during that time. Please share the bits and pieces here with us as you put this puzzle together.
regards,

Chet

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

You might start with the Forest History Assn that is in NC.  Outstanding resource.  I know that Brian Bond at Virginia Tech has studied sawmill and logging railroads in the Appalachians.

[ArtoisDave]

Thanks everyone,

[

[Jim_Rogers]

Dave:
Do you know where in NH William B. Ide came from?

Maybe some over here can find some info about him while he was here.

Jim Rogers

[ArtoisDave]

I was incorrect about that he was from New Hampshire,

William Brown Ide
Birth:  28 MAR 1796   Rutland, Worcester, Massachusetts

Sorry for the misinformation.

Dave

[Solomon]

The State of Vermont has a "Rutland"  Used to live south of there.  Might be a good lead might not.  Might be worth checking out. :P

[5quarter]

Dave...I did some sniffing around aboutsome of the details regarding William  Ides rather winding journey to California. It seems he and his family joined an existing wagon train in Springfield Missouri headed for Oregon. I'm guessing that he either bought the mill in Missouri or the mill originally belonged to someone else on the wagon train and he came by it in some fashion after the events of '45-'49 once he and his family settled at Rancho Barranca Colorado. perhaps he aquired it when he bought out Josiah Belden. I mention this because the parts needed to assemble a water powered mill would comprise more than just some parts in one of the wagons. it would require several wagons and a specialized knowledge to not only assemble it, but fabricate the many wooded parts on site. I think it is more likely that someone else in the party that broke off from the oregon wagon train owned the mill and Ide aquired it at a later date, Or that the mill was already set up at Rancho Barranca Colorado when he aquired it in '49.
   I couldn't find much on his mining activities, But the mill would have been extremely useful in supplying timbers to the booming industry in that period.
   48" circular saws were in use during that period.
   If your location is correct, you should be able to find much more evidence on the site. Look for foundation stones. get a good metal detector. Don't lead on to any officials that you have found anything until you have found everything. Your endeavor sounds like a blast. keep us posted.

[dblair]

Welcome to the forum . there were lots of mills around in that time period mostly grain mills . Saw mills were treasures and communities grew where they were . Where my mill is on Dabney Mill Road the road was named for Dabneys' Mill which was a steam mill in the 1850 time period . the exact place can easily be seen, it's about 100 ft. square, as the mills location is a sunken square in the ground and the land around it is slightly raised , so it was there a long time . the area about a half mile away was known as slab town . your guess who lived in that place as poverty was prevalent after the war of northern aggression up to WW2 . 

[ArtoisDave]

Dave...I did some sniffing around aboutsome of the details regarding William  Ides rather winding journey to California. It seems he and his family joined an existing wagon train in Springfield Missouri headed for Oregon. I'm guessing that he either bought the mill in Missouri or the mill originally belonged to someone else on the wagon train and he came by it in some fashion after the events of '45-'49 once he and his family settled at Rancho Barranca Colorado. perhaps he aquired it when he bought out Josiah Belden. I mention this because the parts needed to assemble a water powered mill would comprise more than just some parts in one of the wagons. it would require several wagons and a specialized knowledge to not only assemble it, but fabricate the many wooded parts on site. I think it is more likely that someone else in the party that broke off from the oregon wagon train owned the mill and Ide aquired it at a later date, Or that the mill was already set up at Rancho Barranca Colorado when he aquired it in '49.
   I couldn't find much on his mining activities, But the mill would have been extremely useful in supplying timbers to the booming industry in that period.
   48" circular saws were in use during that period.
   If your location is correct, you should be able to find much more evidence on the site. Look for foundation stones. get a good metal detector. Don't lead on to any officials that you have found anything until you have found everything. Your endeavor sounds like a blast. keep us posted.



Ide arrived to Sutter's Fort (Sacramento) on Oct 25 1846 and met Peter Lassen who noted his saw on Oct 30th. Lessen offered a site 80 miles to the north, on Lassen's land of course, for a place for the mill. This deal fell through and by Nov. the Ide Party was across the Sacramento River in what would become the town of Tehama. The Belden's welcomed the family and all 26 of them wintered in a small 12 x16 cabin. Well, Tehama floods, and by spring, Mrs. Beldon was more than ready to hit the road back to her land grant which would become San Jose. So the Beldon's made William a deal on their La Barranca Colorada land grant. Ide would not have had time until after the Bear Flag revolt to start the mill, so it might be as early as 1847 or 48. It could easily predate the gold rush. It is certain that with the gold rush that if he had not assembled his mill he would have rushed it into service. His ranch was half way between the northern gold fields and Sacramento. In 1850 Sacramento was completing a building every three minutes. This created a tremendous price from lumber. 

Dave

[ArtoisDave]

welcome Dave...Sounds like a fascinating topic to study. Have you searched the site for any remnants of the mill or the building? Have you checked local records (court, newspaper, government etc...) For any sort of activity on the property? There are quite a few left coasters here... with luck someone might have some info. since the saw was likely Manufactured in the Northeast, maybe someone knows of a few Co.s that were building mills there during the 1830's-40's. quite a feat bringing a piece of hardware like that over land such a distance during that time. Please share the bits and pieces here with us as you put this puzzle together.
regards,

Chet
_______________________________________________________________

Hi Chet,
The mill predates the State of California and any towns in the area. All I have are old maps, diary entries and family lore. I have one barn, built in 1860 and still standing, to actually see the timbers cut from the mill.

Dave

[beenthere]

artoisdave
Hint: Make your posts outside of the quote brackets so we can identify what is your response.

Click on "modify" to make that change and then your pic will likely show up.  ;)

[ArtoisDave]

I have limited time search this location. I have walked and plotted the millrace with my GPS, plus taken some pictures. The races is a shallow ditch about 40 yards wide and 1 ½ mile long and does not show up well in photos. The ditch ends at a small rise marked "Wood Yard" on an 1860 map. This is where we found the cut nails and a large bolt. We only had a limited time, on one day to search the area. As winter sets in, I was hoping to gain information on the layout of the old mills to aid in searching this area in the spring.

Many Thanks,
Dave 

[ArtoisDave]

I re-measured the saw marks from the tracing I bade from a beam from the old  saw mill. Earlier, I measured the 8 inch side (6" x 8") of the beam because it was easier to get the arc of the saw marks. This side of the timber was cut with a 48 inch blade.

When I  measured the arc of the saw marks on the smaller side (6") of the timber. Now I am not completely sure, but these saw marks appear to be from an 80 inch blade.

Could a water powered saw mill from the 1850's have multiple saws?


Thanks again,
Dave

[Ron Wenrich]

I think an 80" blade is simply too big.  I have never seen or heard of a blade that big in commercial use.  You would think a few of those would be around just for show.

I'm thinking that your arc is different because of where it sits in relationship to the saw.  Your 6" side was probably further down the saw where it was going into the saw at a near 90° angle, where the 8" side may have been further up the blade. 

Multiple saws could be present in large mills.  It depends on mill layout and products being sawn.   

[5quarter]

Have you searched the site for any remnants of the mill or the building? Have you checked local records (court, newspaper, government etc...) For any sort of activity on the property?

I was thinking that there may be some later documents (ie, legal disputes public notices, auctions, tax records etc...) that might shed some light on the later disposition or activity of the mill. Perhaps you can find out if it was sold and to whom. unlikely, but possible that it is still around some where. Maybe there is a later photo of the mill and surrounding area.

That's some great additional info. so he either bought it while in missouri. or aquired it by some circumstance from another settler on the Oregon trek. Most likely he bought it new as I'm guessing mills were indispensible at that time and were not readily sold om the secondary market. I would also guess that if Ide purchased the mill in Missouri, that the Co had its Iron works fairly close by. a list  of Mill manufacturers of the period would be helpful.
   Somewhere, Jeff had some photos of some monster saws in action. I think they were used in conjuction with a top saw to break down the bigfoot logs of the northwest. Whether they were in use in the 1840's I don't know.

[ArtoisDave]

Ide's land grant from Mexico was established before there were towns, newspapers or even the State. In fact, Ide was the President of the short lived California Republic. The Ide Land grant was about 6 miles by 20 mile in size and the mill was tucked into the south east corner. By 1849 the part of the ranch near the river had been fenced off to redirect the gold miners away from his property. In addition, he built 2 river ferries to aid in this change in traffic. He built one to the north for the miners and its trade and a second near his mill for his personal and family use.

Your question on the lack of publicity and documentation is a very real concern in this project. Later Ide family endeavors are not listed in the newspapers and the like, as the family is a bit reclusive.  This mill would have had its own riverboat landing and could have sold all of its lumber down stream to the more profitable Sacramento market. This also might explain why there is as little information?

I tracked down the location from an 1860 map of the Land Grant in which the mill was served and labeled as the "Wood Yard". The mill pond part of the mill race was also surveyed. I did not understand this feature on the map until I interviewed family decedents and they mentioned a family sawmill. Perhaps the mill was not publicize to minimize taxes?

I have walked the old mill race and it is straight with 2 gentle bends. It was clearly man made. My best guess comparing the current river course and the 1850-1860 river course is that they had about 7 feet fall on the water. The flow would have been limited only by the width of the mill race.

Right now, all I know is where the water came to the mill site which is a bit of a rise in the terrain. The mill would have been on this rise and somewhere in this area  would also have been a tail race, riverboat landing, spillway and yard to stack the finished boards. Any ideas on the design on this mill would help in narrowing the search on the ground for the old mill.

As for what happened to the mill is simple, the land that the mill is located is gully washer flooded every few years. The Ide's just gave up rebuilding at some point.

Thanks for all the input!
Dave