bio-diesel

[FiremanEd]

Has anyone looked at small scale commercial production of bio-diesel fuel? Or are you doing it already?

We're using about 5,000 gallons a month between logging, milling and road tractors and looking at the feasibility of a smaller commercial bio-diesel plant. (10 to 40k gallons/month)

Any comments appreciated.

Ed

[Ironwood]

In Pittsburgh and guy is subleasing space from the Non-profit that I am involved with. I don't know the volume specifics but it will be a smaller operation. I do know  given fuel cost, there are many new entrants into the bio market for raw material to brew the fuel. If you are investing any serious cash in infrastructure make sure you can feed the system (get contracts for the raw material inflow). I think there will be some competion for this, addtionally the saving are minimal by the time you get the equipment retroed to handle the new fuel and the capital equipment to mix/ filter and dispense. Mostly it is an exersize for the ecology minded. There are only so many deep fryers out there :D. I think it is good to use all the excess up generated by these fryers but just beaware of the limits of the benefits/ and cons. With a fleet like that hopefully you are using a waste oil burner to heat some of the shop space. For our Non-profit the break even point was said to be 750 gallons generated per year to make it feasible. We don't generate that much so we would need to buy it (remixed/ blended waste oil) and if we collected it from the public (we are a eco friendly 80,000 sq. ft. used building material warehouse/ retail operation) contamination is said to be the "fly in the ointment".

              Reid



         reid

[Bill]

I seem to recall some discussion on another forum about over the road taxes due to the Feds ( IRS )  ( and state ? ) if you exceed a certain number of gallons per quarter. Might be worth googling fuel taxes to see if its so.

Good Luck . . .

[Gary_C]

My understanding is there is now a simple process that you can convert soy oil, fryer oil, or other feedstocks to biodiesel. However you will have to deal with sale of other by products such as glycerin to make it economical.

The full process is somewhat dangerous as the chemicals are somewhat unstable.

There are many plants now coming on line to make biodiesel and I think it will be very hard to compete with those new production plants.

Minnesota now has a 2 % biodiesel mandate in all diesel fuel. However last winter there was a problem with the supply of biodiesel not meeting the cold flow specs and they halted the 2 % mandate temporarily for the remainder of the season. Straight biodiesel is extremely thick at normal winter temps so you can not use it year around except when blended at less than 5 %. They are working very hard to resolve that problem and it must be blended when warm. All terminals in Minnesota now have heated tanks for winter blending.

During the summer, I have used blends of 20 to 50 % without problems. you do get somewhat lower fuel economy but they say it is much better for your engine and fuel system. However be prepared to change your filters when you first start using it as it will clean out your fuel system.

We now can buy biodiesel from our local coop fuel suppliers and current  pricing is $ 2.19 non taxed and $ 2.53 tax included. Diesel fuel is for comparison $2.569 for red dyed and $ 2.879 for clear. We have a total of 44.4 cents per gal road tax and yes, there is not that much difference between the off road and road fuels. The only reason is our local suppliers have different pricing structures for off road fuel. Both red and clear fuels cost exactly the same at the terminals.

[Quartlow]

The cousin is just getting started making it. Him and I ran the first 20 gallon batch a few days ago and its running in his pickup right now.

Suppply of waste fryer oil is going to be the problem eventually. Right now most resturants pay to get it hauled away. When they wizen up thats going to change and your going to have to buy it.

We have a couple places we are getting it from right now for free. Our scheme is get into a couple places that are paying to get it hauled away and under cut the rate the are paying. Hey we may as well get payed to haul it away while we can.

As for the glycern. you have to sources of lye, I think its potassium hydroxide, potasium clhoride.  Don't hold me to that I'm not the chemist, I just lug grease  :D

Any way if you distill it and recover your methanol your left with either a weed killer or an organic fertilizer. So I've been told. We are going to experiment with that.

At 5000 gallons a month Ed your going to be getting in to a whole infrastructure just collecting oil. Your going to need someone to collect the oil and a truck to haul it in. Unless you have a supply being delivered.

My understanding on the taxes is it isn't a big deal. The paperwork is supposed to be fairly straight foreward. just file and pay the taxes.

[OneWithWood]

Go here and check it out

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=447609751

Using Bio-d when the weather turns cold is a problem.  I think I will just run a B-5 blend in the winter and use the bio-d in the warmer months.  Storage of bio-d is a concern also.

[MemphisLogger]

A good friend of mine just sold his own veggie (fryer) oil refinery and conversion shop. He now works as the West Tennessee Clean Cities coordinator as which he advocates for and assists municipalities with converting their diesel fleets to soy based biodiesel.

Biodiesel and veggie-oil are 2 different technologies.

Veggie-oil uses restaurant wastes to produce a thicker fuel that requires pre-heaters for the tank, lines and pump. It also usually requires a stronger pump and better fuel filter. The system works by intitially starting the motor on regular diesel or biodiesel and after 5 to 10 minutes of driving (warming), switching to the veggie-oil tank. You can visit my friend Andrew's old shop at Deep Fried Rideswww. Veggie oil can also be virgin oil processed at the farm--Canola produces the most per acre. This was the dream of Rudolph diesel--energy independence for farmers.

Biodiesel is really not much different from regular diesel except that it comes from carbohydrates instead of hydrocarbons. The best difference is that it burns much cleaner due to the lack of other petroleum byproducts in it. It comes in different blends, containing different percentages of regular diesel. The pure stuff must have an odor added so that people can identify it.

From an environmental standpoint, veggie oil is preferable but neither is a good replacement for petro if we keep consuming as much as we do.

My main problem with biodiesel here in the Delta is that the increase in soybean demand will hamper conservation efforts to reforest marginal cropland in the Mississippi Alluvial Basin--forests, sawmills and secondary manufacturing make more money for a community than soybean farming if you take away all the subsidies. You can see how soybean farming has effected the Delta with this time lapse map Forest Cover Change

We were just starting to win farmers over to reforestation and now they think they see a potential goldmine in soy again. Increasing soy acreage also leads to the depletion of groundwater resources and eventually the diversion of water bound for the bottomland hardwoods--this is happening now on the White River in Arkansas, where water headed for the last remaining great bottomland forest in the White River Nat'l Wildlife refuge will be diverted for irrigation. The predicted effect will be a major species shift, leaving much of the Cypress, Tupelo Gum and Swamp White Oak high and dry and dead.       

:-\
     

[FiremanEd]

Thanks for the replys.

The chemist have found some additives to make B20 bio good down to the single digits without heated tanks so that's a great move forward.

At 5000 gallons a month we're not looking into collecting that much frier oil. We're looking more into the virgin soy oil or rendered chicken fat operations. Somthing in the 10,000 gallon / month range. The extra 5000 gallons may help ofset the expense and improve the bottom line.

There is a $1.00 per gallon federal rebate for every gallon of bio-diesel made from virgin oil or chicken fat, that's the only way it could be econimical at all.

Thanks.

[Bill]

FWIW

There's a B5 blended with ULSD dealer around an hour or so west of me that I've stopped at when in the area for something else. I'd add a cetane booster and  antigelling additive and had no problems this past winter down to single digits - though I do have glow plugs to help git her started. Mileage was off a little but smoke soot and odor were way down - supposed to be better for the engine ( esp the turbo ) but I can't tell yet if that's gonna be true for me though I see no reason why not.

I'm interested in this biodiesel talk but want to see the technology settle down ( become really cheap ? and . . .  ) before I jump in.

[ElectricAl]

Ed,

We run B100 soy biodiesel during the warm months. Then switch to clear winter blend when it's cold.

As stated before B100 clouds when it get cold so be careful in the fall.

We have found that if soy bio is stored in tanks outside the condensation will blend with the oil and a water prefilter will not remove the water. This condition is called emulsification and the water cannot be separated back out. The water in the fuel will corrode the aluminum injector pump and housing. Also the water will erode the injector nozzles.

We have corrected this problem by buying our fuel in 55 gallon drums and storing them in the shop.


In my option, any potential savings generated by making your own fuel would be lost to huge capital expenses.

Around here the big users have purchased there own transport trailers, and get there hazmat indorsement for their CDL. But buying in bulk only saves 10 cents :-\