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Strange Timber Jack Problem

Started by Hans1, July 08, 2019, 10:34:33 PM

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Hans1

Bought a 225 timberjack  about 5 hours from home. Live in Iowa so skidded choices here are slim. Finally found this one father son log and rebuild skidders on the side rain days or other down time. New center pin, front cradle rebushed and gone through pretty well but definitely had a hard life normal for skidders. 
 Had driven up in mid June and looked at and purchased this Skidder took about 2 weeks to find some one to drive up with a lowboy and pick it up. Finally went and got it loaded it no problem drove 5 hours home and went to unload and wouldn't start. No power nothing, with no tools and the start of the holiday weekend took it back to town to the shop. Here is where it gets interesting. 
      Checked different points with a multimeter seemed to isolate at the master shutoff switch. Replaced it with new fired up,one time then nothing . Then settled on possible bad battery's replaced both "wired parallel I think. Fired up one time then nothing. 
 Then decided the 2/0 wire from the shutoff to the starter was old ,actually was only wire that wasn't new in the rebuild. Replaced it started once then nothing. We are down to the starter solinoid. Thanks in advance, also as a side note the guys I bought it from have been great trying to help. Thanks again in advance .

47sawdust

Five hours of bouncing on a trailer is sure to loosen things up.I'm sure you will sort it out.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

mike_belben

What does it do when it wont start?  Is there even the faintest hint of any sound when you turn the key on the nogo cycles?  Is it a no click, no crank or no run condition?  Mechanical sound will mean a lot here to a mechanic but its hard when not there to listen. 

Ignition switch, solenoid and trigger wires are all suspect as are bad chassis ground and batt cables.  Yank around on all your big cables.. Lugs can be completely isolated from the conductor via corrosion.. Seen many times.  Look perfect, ohm out fair.. Wont pass a load test.
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kiko

I agree it may be a ground issue.  Also look for paint at ground connections and if the engine has rubber isolators make sure engine is grounded to frame.

jwilly3879

Disconnect on our TJ cuts the ground, not the positive.

Jack S

I had a friend with a similar problem on a farm tractor with a detroit diesel. He had changed starters and solenoids with no success. I started checking grounds and finally homed in on the starter. The engine housing behind the starter mount was so badly rusted there was no electrical contact. we ground off all the rust put it it together and its fine. this tractor had set out in the weather for years by  way. Its so easy to forget grounding but its just as important as the wiring and sometimes more the problem. Hope this might help   Jack

mike_belben

I add a wire from ground post to starter bolt.   All your junk will last longer if the voltage in the circuit is higher.  Voltage drop means more amps, means more arcing in the copper parts, slower cranking, thus longer cranking thus more heat and arcing etc.  
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bushmechanic

I agree with mike, put a set of booster cables to the starter bolt where it screws on the starter to the block and ground it to the negative on the batteries, this should bypass any bad ground issues. Those old Delco starters are famous for burning off the contacts in the solenoid also, and if the pins on the brushes get sticky/rusty it won't turn over either. Good luck!

Hans1

Thanks everyone for all the reply's. When the starter button is pushed no sound at or any thing at all. Not sure which is the proper way to install a master shut off but it this one interrupts the positive. The skidder is still on the trailer in town at a friends shop so it's convenient to work on. My guess is the ground at this point currently it's from the front battery to the transmission. Will also chase the wires from the push button to the solenoid. Also this has the 353 and was taken out and painted during the rehab. This site is a such a great resource I really appreciate all the help.

Putnamqdm@yahoo

Check the kill cable at engine my spring has stuck several times before and no matter what I did it wouldn't start until I released the spring.

Mapleman

I thought I might mention that I have a 1966 vintage TJ 225 with a 353 and it has positive ground, this might make a difference when using jumper cables to get a better ground....
"The older I get, the better I used to be."

mike_belben

The issue with a positive kill is that the metal body is grounded so if fails internally, gets smashed by a stick or a hunk of metal or chain or sawbar falls across the lugs youve got a 900 amp heater element.  A ground disco is at the same potential as the chassis so no danger there.
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Blackcanyon

I believe all power to machine goes through the starter I would turn on master switch and check for power at the starter first. I would also as others stated check the ground. It is a fairly dumb beast it needs power, fuel , compression, and air, that's it. Eliminate one issue at a time. Good luck.

Hans1

Pretty good news on this end. Took off the soliniod Napa had one, replaced it started, of course only one time. So took the starter off not exactly easy but got it. Took the starter apart the armeratur and removed the rust and cleaned it up. Checked the commutator it tested fine and cleaned it up .Put it all back together and it starts every time. Also added some LED lights front and back . Thanks to all that commented there is no where else on the web where so much knowledge is available. This thing is still on the trailer so should get it to the woods soon.I do have pics but can't get them posted from my I phone 

BargeMonkey

 I'm late to the detroit party 😂 The only thing I've got to say is be leery of disconnect switches and back up alarms from NAPA, most of our stuff has both and had alot of issues. 

GRANITEstateMP

When it comes to battery disconnects, go to your local speed / racecar shop.  Don't buy the one's with the plastic removable key!  I've had really good luck with the Reboco & Longacre Racing products disconnects, if memory serves me, they sell 2.  One has two big lugs and the switch.  The other has 2 big lugs, and 2 small ones.  Glad you got it all squared away.

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Hans1

Both of the above reply's  are good advice the shutoff switch I removed first was the removable key type. On my JD 850 dozer the only one that has survived was one from CAT but that is 24 volts.

mike_belben

Cleaning up commutator fixes 80% of starter problems for me.  Pull grease seal, squirt some fresh lube sauce in there, hose the housing and armature down with ether and slap it back in.
Praise The Lord

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