Thinking about the future....

[yankeeredneck]

Been about a year since I posted on here. A lot has happened ----- tore a tenon off the bone on my right arm last year --- had surgery and lost some mobility in it -- not much just 5% but enough to know I'm not the same. Still having to rehab the arm some.

Wife - who runs the mill more than me -- had surgery and has about 3 more months to go on recovery ---- I'm seeing that as much as I feel young -- our bodies say different.

I am really debating getting a mini excavator for the wood lot now. We do not do as much "farm" work as we once did. I have people that cut my hay field and we are not doing as many animals as we once were doing. We currently have 34 hair sheep and 12 Angus ....but dropping that down to like 5 sheep and maybe a few Dexter.

I still have the 2 older tractors so its not like I wouldn't be without a tractor ( '63 MF 50 and 78 Ford 515 Utility). We are really using the mill more than ever we thought. So much so that a friend of mine that has a tree service almost got me to partner with him and do that full-time. Is it worth getting a mini excavator and slowly growing into that with the side hustle?

What is everyone's thoughts --- get the mini ex, get a backhoe, or a bigger tractor with a grapple to handle the wood lot.

And if it is the mini ex ---- 4 or 5 ton is what I have been looking at.

[SawyerTed]

Sorry about the health issues.  Aging is tough business especially if you've worked hard a good bit of your life.  I'm feeling it too.  My 61 year old body can't cash the checks my 40 year old mind thinks it can.

An excavator with a thumb bucket is a great tool sort of like a knuckle boom.  With that said, I'm leaning toward a backhoe because it's more versatile.  

I'm beginning to think a backhoe with a front grapple and thumb on the hoe bucket is a good all around machine.  A grapple on a backhoe front bucket would probably require some mods but not too bad.  

The right size backhoe can unload log trucks, load a log deck, do some skidding and stack and sort logs.  And you get considerable digging power with the hoe.

[yankeeredneck]

Im almost to that 50 mark ---- but over the years from being a Ford certified tech to pulling wires in homes for audio/home automation for 15 and now IT for 13 years ( thankfully a director now but still get my hands dirty as they say ) -- my body has been used and abused lol. I had contemplated the backhoe but I just wasn't sure of its lifting capacity vs the mini. I have many ditch lines to clear out as well so its not like the actual backhoe part wouldn't be used.

The other use for the mini would also to clear brush and such on my property - which is mainly hill.

[Southside]

Do you have a way to move / load stacks of lumber? I would be lost without my telehandler. I made a quick tach for the forks so I can put on a bucket, grapple, bale squeeze, etc.  Logs, lumber, hay, dirt, injured cow in the sling - the Lull does it all. 

[yankeeredneck]

We use the Ford 515 right now --- with a big logging chain on the bucket.

Right now -- we do not move stacks. I want to change that.

[Tom K]

This question always gets debated either way, it really comes down to the details.

Knowing that you have another loader tractor I would lean towards a mini, and set up your Ford with a set of forks and possibly a grapple.

A backhoe is versatile, but can be too awkward and heavy for some task. A mini is slow to move, but can get into tighter spots.

We've got a mini, a skid steer, and a loader tractor, they all have their places they shine. I spent 50 hours last month on the mini tiling out a wet spot that I couldn't have gotten into with a backhoe. I also used the skid steer to move a load of stone that would have taken way longer with the mini. Had it been dry a backhoe could have done both. Our ground sets wet enough that a backhoe is usually not an easy option.

Cleaning ditches with a backhoe is also painful compared to a mini.

The loader capacity of a decent sized backhoe will far exceed a tractor, and all but the largest track loaders. They hoe end should be comparable between a 4-5 ton mini and a backhoe. 

[jpassardi]

Here is my personal equipment/experience for reference: I have a CAT 416 4x4 BH with Hydraulic thumb and forks, 20 ton (not mini) excavator with manual thumb and 763 skid steer.
By far the 416 BH is the most used to support the mill from logging to loading logs to taking away and stacking lumber. With a full size BH you can controllably load large logs from the end of the mill with a chain, smaller ones I use the BH w/thumb. The biggest downside to a BH is when digging you can't rotate 360 like an excavator.
To get the full ability of a BH you need a full size 4x4, not a tractor w/ BH attachment.
Good luck! 

[mudfarmer]

We can't say what is best for you, but you can sure buy a big backhoe in good shape for less than a mini ex.

The big hoes don't do well at my place. A real good day was when it went on somebody else's trailer and went I don't care where.

A mini ex has been about perfect. 12k or 14k would have been better than 10k lb but shopped for a long time in the wrong market to get a good machine for a good price close by and can at least move easily.

Good luck in your decision and search, I think Jeff went through this so try to dig up that thread.

[KenMac]

I might be able to add something to this discussion. I have a backhoe, a small one- Kubota B26- and an excavator- a Takeuchi TB260. At just under 14k the Takeuchi is able to move much larger logs than the 25hp backhoe, even though it has 3rd function hydraulics up front and a hydraulic thumb on the hoe. If the Kubota will handle the log it's what I use, and it surprises everyone who sees it work. It's much faster than the mini, but the mini will tote about 5k+ as oppsed to 1.4k for the Kubota. The mini will also be used more for property upgrades such as ditching and grading for drainage. The one attachment I really want for the mini is an adapter to use skid steer attachments. That will allow me to use my grapple, forks and 4-in-1 bucket to do so much more than possible with either machine now. A larger backhoe would do most of what I do, so that might be my choice for a do-it-all machine, but I really like the cab and a/c in the mini. Good luck with your research and choice.

[Magicman]

Backhoes have sorta been ignored/obsoleted by fiber optic contractors, etc.  The minis are so much more versatile digging handholes and receiving pits. 

As a result, larger and more powerful backhoes are available and they are much better adapt for handling logs.  The front hydraulics are much stronger than a farm tractor plus the backhoe provides the rear weight.




My old backhoe, Fat Albert, did not know his own strength and never ran above an idle.

[SawyerTed]

Here's a video of @customsawyer unloading logs with a backhoe.   I'm not speaking for Jake.   It's just a good example.  Operator deserves his due as well. 

https://youtu.be/1JKcWmoBQZ4?si=wfd2aJMPnXLedIuK

An excavator certainly can do the same.  Notice forks on the front of the backhoe.

It's non-mill related jobs that differentiate among pieces of equipment.   Those weren't mentioned in the original post.   

[yankeeredneck]

Love the feedback people! Excellent ideas and reasons behind them.

The extra stuff SawyerTed is things like brush hogging our hill, cleaning out our creek, digging drainage lines, overall anything that needs done. The idea of adding a skid steer attachment to a mini ex --- that would ALMOST --- do everything my tractor does now - except mow my hay field. We square bale most of it but sometimes a buddy of mine rolls it for me.

My hill is where I see the mini ex being a better fit. It is steep enough where we had a 4x4 tractor almost go on us. It's like 25-30% grade uphill. I still have trees that need to be cleared from up there as well as some springs that need fixing. One of the reasons why I am leaning towards the mini ex.

[Tom K]

For all of the other uses you want to use it for I would lean towards a mini for sure. 

The part you didn't mention is what capacity do you actually need/want in a machine?

If you are unloading log trucks a couple times a week I would want a different machine then if I was just moving a few logs around the mill.

If I sawed & sold 10mbf per week I would want something different then if I was handling 500 bf per month.

If my mill could only mill a 26" x 12' log I would want a different machine than if I could mill a 42" x 45' log. 

While someone might love their machine for how they use it, it might not work for how you plan on using it.

[yankeeredneck]

Tom K --- good point.

I'm thinking something around the 4-5 ton area is going to be a good size for me. Most of my logs will be around the 20-28 inch round and we have a lot of Hemlock, Popular, and Hickory on the property. I can saw up to a 30in and 16 and a half feet log. A few of my friends around here have KX121-3 machines and I figure I am not doing everything they are doing but would be close to it.

I have the Woodland Mills HM130MAX. Getting ready to get the trailer for it.

[KenMac]

I can't disagree with your logic about a mini ex. I would recommend that you get as large as you can haul safely. It's like a sawmill in that you can't have too much power.

[Magicman]

A mini is a very versatile machine but my experience has been that log and lumber handling is not it's strong suit.

[barbender]

 If you have lots of $$ to spend, one of the Mecalac machines look about as versatile as you can get.

[jpassardi]

Couple thoughts to consider:
Capability for the dollar: you'll be hard pressed to beat a full size 4x4 backhoe especially if you're using it on just your property. They aren't good sideways on steep hills though. Yesterday we drove dump and BH to a nearby street and loaded a couple 36" x 14.5' pines into the truck. As MM said, the loader has a lot of lifting ability.

A mini/skid combo will be considerably more expensive but depending on size can be moved by 3/4 ton and trailer so better for mobile capability for the average guy. Attachments are many if you can afford them. Excavators track slow but can swing 360.

Short answer: it depends.

[customsawyer]

If I could only have one machine then it would probably be that backhoe. Where it has the quick connect on the front, it is priceless. It can lift over 8000K with the front forks and can unload a log truck with tall bolsters on it. They are top heavy so wouldn't like going sideways on a hill. Up and down it I wouldn't worry about it as you can use the hoe as a counter weight and back up the hill or fill the bucket and go forward with it. It will have more strength in the hoe than most mini ex will. Just can't swing 360 degrees. I probably have more rolling stock around here than most on this forum and the reason is that they each do certain tasks better. It also gives me a backup when something breaks down. The back hoe doesn't get used much anymore as I have other equipment but I will never sell it due to it's versatility.

[barbender]

I'm not seeing how a mini ex would be much good at sidehilling, either.

[yankeeredneck]

All good points and ideas from everyone! I can't thank you guys enough with your advice.

Either way we go -- it will be an investment for the better.

Right now 50/50 on the 4x4 backhoe and mini ex.

[SawyerTed]

Of course renting a machine for those infrequent or one-off kind of jobs is an option.  That way it's possible to get bigger more powerful and heavier machines to do the job without paying for excess capacity long term.