Trying to learn a few things before I buy land

[Tmac47]

If your just wanting to sell logs, you have to know the log markets in your area, what they pay, their buying specs. Maybe they work on contract, or maybe you have it logged for you and what is your cut. You have to negotiate that, but you have the have an idea what is fair.

Most mills have weekly quotas with timber dealers and it could be hard to penetrate this market, especially if you live in a particularly competitive area.

I know a logger who works in NE Georgia and delivers wood all the way in Southeastern Tennessee and things aren't looking great right now.  One of the mills he delivers to is getting ready to shut down one of its loaders, so their capacity is dropping by 25%, which means they'll be buying less wood, which means the market is going to get even more competitive.

Since you're still in school, depending on how motivated you are, you should seek an "internship" with a mill or large timber company to get an inside look at the industry.  If you're serious about wanting to deliver your own wood, this would be my advice.

[mesquite buckeye]

Don't be thinking you can get other people to do all the work and you end up with free or nearly free land. If it was all that easy to do, we would all do it.

Reality check. Lifelong job to make, keep and grow a forest. Do it right, work hard, be smart and one day it may pay off. Life has no guarantees. That said, I love my woods. Maybe someday I'll actually make some money with it.

[SwampDonkey]

TMac we have a little different situation in NB, but not totally different. The guys working on crown land doing the harvesting, they know all their wood is going to market and as log as the mill is alive they'll be paid. We also have a few 'wood brokers', not many, and marketing boards. Any wood off private woodlots is regulated by the marketing boards. And levy is paid, even if through a broker. This is a marketing and management fee and less than 3 % of sales. What broker does management? None that I know. ;) The marketing boards at one time negotiated contracts with mills using a system of quota holders that could deliver volumes giving the mills some certainty that wood would flow their way to meet their needs. At that time private wood was the primary source of supply because it was competing with crown timber. What never worked well was the mills could shut them off while volumes kept flowing off crown land harvest blocks, then expect the private wood deliveries to be met in short order when they opened the gates again. Like turning the tap on and off. Then have the mill complain until the sun set about not having fresh wood when some of it had to sit 3-6 months on the landing because they were shut off after the wood had already been cut. : Or simply sold it to Maine because bills and wages need to be paid if your running a logging business. And then on occasion find out that some pulp sat on landings out on crown land for 8-10 months to turn black on the ends and full of grubs and nary a word spoke of it. Nothing wrong with that wood apparently. : The marketing boards at times saved a lot of loggers because wood often times was not paid for for months and one particular mill was famous for being $2-3 M in arrears for wood payments to the board. The board also absorbed a lot of mill bankruptcies, the logger got paid, but the board didn't. ;)

[GATreeGrower]

Just curious, Dan, do you go to MTSU?

[Hans1]

This is a great topic and there is no better place to learn than this site. I'm a rookie in the knowledge forestry and markets in your area. I have bought owned and sold many rural property's over the years here in iowa. From an investment stand point the money made on land is most often made in the purchase price. I would recommend educating yourself on land sales in your area. This can be done by research at court house to see what tracts are selling for and attending land auctions. When you enter the market as a buyer be ready with your financing in place an offer not contingent on finance will often out bid a higher offer that is dependent on finance. Some other avenues to generate revenue would be to enroll for cost share at the state and fed levels for tsi and habitat improvement. Patience is your best alley in shopping for land.
Good luck

[mesquite buckeye]

Welcome to the forum, Hans1 ;D

Good points. 4th rule of real estate. Money is made when buying, not selling.

Rule 1 of real estate: location

Rule 2 of real estate: location

Rule 3 of real estate: location


Rules of timberland ownership

Rule 1: site index

Rule 2: quality of existing stand

Rule 3: proximity to markets

Rule 4: species value and relative amounts of each

Rule 5: appropriate thinning and pruning of most valuable trees

Rule 6: patience of Job (Old Testament)

[cutter88]

Well thanks.  In all reality, awesome would be a 450 Timberjack painted cherry red with flames, a new peterbilt with straight pipes, walnut logs so big it takes half the spool to choke them up, and a dallas cowboys cheerleader bringing water to me :D

lol couldn't have said that better my self

[GATreeGrower]

Mesquite that was perfect but I'd add a #7...amount of unwanted vines and woody stems to be controlled  :D

[mesquite buckeye]

At least keeping them from damaging the trees. First I was at war, with some grapevines with 8" trunks covering an acre of land and killing mature timber. Now that they are more under control, I can tolerate them to some extent as long as they stay out of the crowns of crop trees. Sometimes I will let them take out a defective tree. Then I drop the tree and down comes the vine.

Also, Virginia creeper rarely gets big enough to overtop the canopy, and may serve to help cool the trunk and help prevent sunscald. Poison ivy I like less..... >:(

Anyway, with some slight reservation,  good rule # 7. ;D

[SwampDonkey]

Another reason to stay north. We do have wild native grape up here, but not much bigger in diameter than a black berry cane. They usually only climb shrub bushes. Although on one section of highway along the river, they are covering the road. :

[GATreeGrower]

Mesquite here VA creeper is bad, gets in the tops, Ive seen it kill mature pines of ours.  Probably because we get more rainfall

[GATreeGrower]

Muscadine vines are bad in my part and of course wisteria

[SwampDonkey]

It's an escapee from back yard gardens here. But our forests here, knock it back. It will mostly thrive on shrubs, bushes and river front trees, not much success in the big woods. I have some in the yard. I just snip it at the base, like hitting the reset button. I do it because one is on an electric pole and I don't want it in the wires. A couple trees in the yard have it survive around the stump and up 5 feet or so, but it doesn't get anywhere. Sugar maple and spruce will pretty much put it in it's place. ;D

[1woodguy]

 Good topic!
   If I owned the land with trees don't think I would sell logs I would want to use the lumber
   I talked to two guys  (brothers) about some property they had just bought last fall and planning on clear enough to put afew mobile homes on divide into 1to2 1/2 acres with septic then resell
  It was across the highway from a place of mine.
     It was mostly ERC and oaks
     They own several small mobile parks and a lot of the mobile homes they fix if necessary then they sell to folks in the parks
their thinking was cut up the ERC for decks and steps ,build storage with all the FREE WOOD and sell the extra for big Bucks!
  One wanted to get a mill other didn't so
   They cut and hauled logs several times  to a sawmill
ended up with Lumber to use   
Decided it was not worth it,and land was not worth thinning and where you have to thin it's quicker and easier to pile and burn   logging is hard
Lots of easier ways to make a buck
   And so it's for sale
I still think logging and sawing to lumber on this place is worth thinking about if you have the cash

   So much depends  on what you want to do  I couldn't do just logs or sawmill

Some places you could buy a property thin it out some and make some of your payments

  In my case. Near two lakes  I think about thin it out along road cut what I wanted then
dividing part of land adding septic tanks maybe add mobiles if purchased right
(Repos bid on quantity of eight or more at a time)

And keep the rest of the land depending on total costs including carry and hold
  I could think of tons to do with lumber
Problem is finding the time  and the fact that I can usually make more money doing other things

 
 
     

[SwampDonkey]

Well one thing to keep in mind is the scale of things. It will not pay to go out and buy $100,000 of machinery and saw mill to thin $15,000 of wood out. It would not pay to buy a $25,000 mill to cut $8000 of lumber and not use it as a sawmill business. Plus when your considering all this work and you have a day job, when is it going to get done?