Woodmizer vibration in band and the mill is buzzing, help! -- Update

Bandmill Bandit · February 25, 2014, 07:49:39 PM

Rpowers I am sorry I Didnt mention that there were 2 bearing in the roller.

FYI i did find a wide race single bearing with 3 sets of rollers in it that will replace the 2 bearings but it is not cheap and is designed to run submerged.

if you put the roller on a half inch bolt and then put bolt in a vise so you can turn it freely, with a magnetic dial gauge mounted and set to measure the deflection it will tell you if that roller was out of whack right from factory (my guess). The failing bearing just exacerbated it enough to amplify the harmonics. replace the roller is my advice.

drobertson · February 25, 2014, 08:04:18 PM

It does sound like something got bent. Or just came loose, pull the blade roller off again and check the 1/2" bolt that it mounts on, see if it is bent, clean the housing and re-seat it, and go through it again, what a pain indeed,

Peter Drouin · February 25, 2014, 08:33:31 PM

WM has a new one in stock that would fix the thing. I buy the things 4 or 6 at a time. My problem is the back edge where the blade hits when the blade gets push back when I'm cutting. [Gets out of the square] I give the thing to a machinist to redress, And get a little more out of it. But a bearing, I toss them.
Good luck with your search.

RPowers · February 25, 2014, 09:36:50 PM

Quote from: drobertson on February 25, 2014, 08:04:18 PM
It does sound like something got bent. Or just came loose, pull the blade roller off again and check the 1/2" bolt that it mounts on, see if it is bent, clean the housing and re-seat it, and go through it again, what a pain indeed,

The first WM rep I talked with suggested checking for a bent axle bolt as well. I isolated the roller as the problem by switching the two rollers, and the problem followed the roller rather than staying with the axle bolt on the inside. I think BMB has the best idea, that the roller was whack from the start, but somehow either the roller has prematurely caused the bearing to start failing or there has been a dust buildup forcing the roller and bearing out of alignment. Either way the problem took a while to show up from when I got the mill. It has maybe 130ish hours on it.

drobertson · February 25, 2014, 09:46:19 PM

Good deal, just knowing is a relief, it's amazing how things go good then take the dive, hard to figure how products get sent out, out of spec, but it happens,,

RPowers · February 25, 2014, 09:53:04 PM

So, new question. What is the best way to press bearings in without damaging them? I do'nt have a press, but I was using a tight-fit socket and deadblow hammer. Good enough?

Magicman · February 25, 2014, 09:57:50 PM

I have replaced them on the tailgate with a socket and without a deadblow hammer. ;D

RPowers · February 25, 2014, 10:06:47 PM

Good to know, MM, thanks! I think that as time goes one there will be an inventory of certain tools and parts I will keep on hand for stuff like this. I hate to expect failure, but it happens and I'd rather be able to fix stuff "right now" and not wait on the parts dept to ship things out.

VictorH · February 25, 2014, 10:18:34 PM

If you are at home and have a drill press it can be used to press some things fairly well. If the table on it tilts just make sure to square it up to the chuck first.

backwoods sawyer · February 25, 2014, 11:51:41 PM

I like to keep a pair of new guides in the truck as well as enough bearings to rebuild in the feild, I treat guides like saws, they do wear...

Red Good · February 26, 2014, 12:21:02 AM

When your instaling bearings like those , make sure you push from the side with all the numbers on it , that side is heavier to acomodate the pressure of installation . Also a vise generally offers you 2 square faces . Just go slow and watch the alignment and crank away . Good luck .Red

bandmiller2 · February 26, 2014, 07:12:53 AM

Everyone that messes with machinery should have a good bench vice. A vice and sockets are just the ticket for pressing bearings in and out. Bro Powers probably that guide roller wasen't turning for a wile and got worn on one side. When a mill is running sometimes its hard to tell if a guide is turning, take a black majic marker and put a mark on the back of the roller. Frank C.

SawyerBrown · February 26, 2014, 09:40:08 AM

I guess I'm just surprised this problem didn't show up right from Day1, especially since it ran smooth for so many hours. I'm thinking alien pranksters...

Another related question: how best to clean the B57 belts? Solvent? Physical abrasion? I had some pretty nasty white pine tar buildup one time, used some "goo-gone" and a putty knife, but it still seemed to rough up the surface more than I would have liked. Belts still running fine at this point.

pineywoods · February 26, 2014, 10:49:22 AM

My guess is the bearings were seized for quite a while and the roller wore off flat on one side. They normally wear off more on the tooth side of the roller. It's a wonder those bearings last as well as they do. Look at it this way..The rollers ride on a blade that's traveling close to 50 mph. A 2 inch roller traveling that fast turns up some serious rpms. Then factor in water, sawdust and grit off the log.

Magicman · February 26, 2014, 11:12:42 AM

Quote from: SawyerBrown on February 26, 2014, 09:40:08 AM
Another related question: how best to clean the B57 belts?

I clean mine with the wire brushes shown above. I spin the idle side and take the belt off of the drive side. The scraper works well if there is serious buildup. The only source that I have found for these brushes is the Wal-Mart paint department..

Peter Drouin · February 26, 2014, 12:41:07 PM

Quote from: pineywoods on February 26, 2014, 10:49:22 AM
My guess is the bearings were seized for quite a while and the roller wore off flat on one side. They normally wear off more on the tooth side of the roller. It's a wonder those bearings last as well as they do. Look at it this way..The rollers ride on a blade that's traveling close to 50 mph. A 2 inch roller traveling that fast turns up some serious rpms. Then factor in water, sawdust and grit off the log.

Or the bearing stop working race and all and the roller would still spin .
The roller gets hog out on the inside and with the band pushing up it gets cockeyed. So you get the same thing [problem] with a new bearing.

RPowers · February 26, 2014, 01:07:00 PM

The problem with a flat spot idea is that the original bearings aren't seized or trashed, and I cant find a flat however minute, and that entire roller is turning on a tilted wobble in on the bearing axle.

drobertson · February 26, 2014, 01:21:29 PM

Are you getting a new part? I wish I could see this, but, get a new axle and see how if this one runs out. a Vise an indicator would sure be handy before you do all the adjustments on installation. Bonifed head scratcher on this end, david

drobertson · February 26, 2014, 01:31:48 PM

If I remember, you mentioned the blade guide is vibrating. Resulting in a choppy cut pattern. I had this not long ago, If this is still the case you will need to make adjustments on the v-bearing rollers by aligning the eccentric mounting bolts, and in the process make sure it moves in and out parallel to the bed rail. Not a bad fix, just a lil tweaking. It will have to be done with the blade installed and tightened.

caveman · February 26, 2014, 04:50:36 PM

When I replaced the arbor bearings on my table saw last year, I put the shaft in the freezer for about an hour and the bearings in the oven at about 200° for the same time. The bearings slid right on without force. When the temperature equalized, the bearings fit just right. Good luck on the repair.
Caveman

Brucer · February 27, 2014, 12:16:30 AM

Let's see, stationary shaft, guide roller wobbles. Problem goes where the roller goes.

That accounts for the vibration. Can't be the shaft. Could be the bearings. Might be a roller that's been bored off center.

Is the mill still under warranty?

Bandmill Bandit · February 27, 2014, 04:29:05 PM

I use a socket that fit the outer race of the bearing, a half inch thick 2x2 block of oak and a large C clamp in the field. In the shop I use my press.

Seized bearing don't turn and Mr powers ist the type of operator to let some thing like that slip.

Now that you have determined that the problem follows the roller I am willing to bet that it is bored off centre just a few thou of an inch. Like maybe 30 to 50 on the minimum side. This is the reason for the dial guage test. Results are definitive.

Change the Roller.

Peter Drouin · February 27, 2014, 07:22:51 PM

Quote from: Bandmill Bandit on February 27, 2014, 04:29:05 PM
I use a socket that fit the outer race of the bearing, a half inch thick 2x2 block of oak and a large C clamp in the field. In the shop I use my press.

Seized bearing don't turn and Mr powers ist the type of operator to let some thing like that slip.

Now that you have determined that the problem follows the roller I am willing to bet that it is bored off centre just a few thou of an inch. Like maybe 30 to 50 on the minimum side. This is the reason for the dial guage test. Results are definitive.

Change the Roller.

One time I had an old truck, One day the front tire stop turning I was doing about 25 mi an hour, And when I took it apart I found the race had welded itself to the spindle. See the bearing seized so it spun on the shaft and welded , But that was a truck and not a Roller.

RPowers · February 27, 2014, 07:53:50 PM

Guys I really appreciate yalls input and help. I am sure that something is wrong with that roller. How things got this far down the hours on the mill without the problem becoming obvious I don't know. WM is sending another roller, and an RMA label so they can examine mine. If I can find out what exactly the problem is with it I'll let yall know. Hopefully the new part will be here in a couple of days and everything will be back to smooooth running. I have a couple jobs coming up and will be glad to have the mill cutting right again. I have this OCD thing with noise, so the buzz was driving me nuts!

RP

RPowers · February 27, 2014, 07:56:28 PM

Quote from: Peter Drouin on February 27, 2014, 07:22:51 PM

One time I had an old truck, One day the front tire stop turning I was doing about 25 mi an hour, And when I took it apart I found the race had welded itself to the spindle. See the bearing seized so it spun on the shaft and welded , But that was a truck and not a Roller.

I'll bet that was a shock,