I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.

[MikeySP]

Will...  I have the walnut, locust, and hickory job. 4, 5, and 6 April. 

At this point, we have agreed to $.45 a board foot and $65 hour for any stumps. If things don't go very well, I will make it right... even if I have to do it for free. I hope that is not the case.

I am glad I have a little time to think, study, prep, plan, and rehearse. 

I will cut a stump here before I do it there. This way I can take plenty of time to think it through and fiddle. 

Jedi master... what should grasshopper do if he may not run with scissors or backup a running saw in the log?

Well said Ben! I am trying to keep the proper perspective as I take the bluntness off my sword.

WV, thanks for that clarification. I thought a 26" spread and a 30" log was a close shave for me not to end in drama. Since I am going to cut a short log/stump here, I will be ready for what may be. I really do not like the idea of one clamp point; so, the idea of a backer board to spread the load to other stops sounds good. 

Thank you men!

-Mike

[WV Sawmiller]

   On the blade back up be sure to keep a couple of wedges and drive them in to widen the cut before you start to back the blade up. I take along a short handled felling ax and a couple of plastic felling wedges (although you can make your own wood ones) and just be matter of fact about it and the customer assumes it is a normal occurrence. More experienced sawyers than me have even been known to take a broken piece of a blade with a custom built handle they use to remove the sawdust before they try to back the blade out. 

[Southside]

a couple of plastic felling wedges (although you can make your own wood ones

I am pretty sure he has already perfected that move.  :D

@Magicman has a great photo of the sawdust cleaner that WV speaks of here, maybe he can post a photo of it for reference.  

[YellowHammer]

The main drive belt being tight is critical to good sawing.  Basically as the band loads up in the cut, the main drive starts slipping and the the effective cutting operating speed of the bands decreases.  Since rarely will the operator notice that the band has slowed down, the forward feed rate, although constant from the operators point of view, just decreases relative to the band speed.  So band speed vs feed rate isn't optimized and the band is being "jammed" into the wood and will cut waves.  I would highly recommend getting a band tension measuring tool from WM and adjust it accordingly on a regular basis.  

If you harness the full power of the dark side, you can back a band out of a cut while engaged, but it must be done by hand, very slowly.  It takes some technique.  Basically the problem is that sawdust has spilled behind the band in the kerf, so if the power feed is used to back out, the sawdust piles up behind the band and becomes an immovable object.  The band will always dismount.  If the head is pulled back by hand very slowly, and with touch, the back of the spinning band will clean the sawdust out of the kerf.  Might not want to try to it at this stage of the game, it's like grabbing a croc by the tail, you got to know how to stay out of harm's way.  

I do keep a couple wedges and a piece of sawblade with a duct tape handle nearby just for emergencies.  

Another good move to perfect is the "Nudge" which basically means dropping the backstops and using the two plane clamp to slide the log or cant sideways in order to get more clearance to finish the cut, all with the band still turning.  Kind of sporty move, but invaluable.    

Another tip is to never open the blade guide up all the way, leave it about 1 inch from max as a safety reserve.  Then when you need an extra inch, you have it.  

As they mentioned, milling in front of an audience is inviting concentration and oops issues.

WM mounts a mud flap over the debarker to stop chips from hitting people




 

[burtle]

Awesome on landing the job!

Please take some pictures and post them when you get done!

[WDH]

If you saw the stump, and if the stump is not pressure washed very thoroughly, you will rue the day stump.

[Magicman]

Magicman has a great photo of the sawdust cleaner that WV speaks of here, maybe he can post a photo of it for reference.

I NEVER attempt to back up with the blade engaged.  Popping a blade off even when not engaged can damage the teeth.  I wedge the cant/board up and clean the sawdust out with this before backing out of a cut:


 
 A cut off section of a broken blade...


 
with a dipped handle.

[YellowHammer]

I NEVER attempt to back up with the blade engaged.  Popping a blade off even when not engaged can damage the teeth.

Yes it will. :D

But it doesn't happen too often, just enough to remind me not to hang it in the first place.

When I had my manual mill, I routinely fed the band manually backward in the kerf to prepare for the next cut.  So the same technique applies, slow backward with hand pressure, band tension tightened, and if it goes bad it isn't fun and it makes the situation worse.  If it goes good, problem solved in a matter of a few seconds instead of minutes. Just me. I can safely pull the head backward by hand by using the 3 foot long dragback arm as a handle, so I am a long way from the head.  If backing up with the power feed, the band will come off every time.  

[WV Sawmiller]

   BTW - are the stumps cut above or below ground level? I am mostly thinking of ones cut right at ground level and Danny and company may be talking about dug up stumps covered in mud, sand and rocks. It definitely will make a difference.

[Magicman]

My Reply #203 was directed toward "dug up" stumps. 

[doc henderson]

Mike, you will do as well, if not better, than anyone else on the forum did when they were new.  go for it!

Master Po: If a man dwells on the past, then he robs the present. But if a man ignores the past, he may rob the future. The seeds of our destiny are nurtured by the roots of our past.

[MikeySP]

Yes SSL Jedi Master, I have learned well the making of wedges. They are 12ft long.

Turn out I was mistaken. I did not break a blade a couple days ago, I made a sawdust removing tool.

Seriously, I will make a sawdust remover and wood some wedges. 

TT, I think I just need the miles. Like you said, I will see the difference as I change blades. I will also pay attention to the sawdust size/flow out the shoot to gain visual clues.

Excellent. Thank you MM for the sawblade mod pics.

Now I get it YH. That indeed makes sense. Unfortunatley, 

I purchased the belt tension tool and thought I tightened it correctly a few weeks ago, but to be honest, it did seem loose to me. I may have failed to do it properly. Will go back and reread and fix before sawing more. 

Had to take yesterday afternoon off for getting cleared land ready for grass seed. Today, mostly helping son to get office shed in the dry. 

Not sure I understand the nudge, or if I should be engaged in such advanced kung-fu at this point. 

Burtle, I will try to rig up a camera before the job for critique. I will definately plan to take pics. 

WDH, that is a really important point, as I had no idea. Why is a stump ruined if not pressure washed?

WV, as I understand it, the tree company, cut the logs a few feet up, then went back and cut the stumps also. Not sure of level, but I can ask, if this has a bearing on my procedures.

Doc, I want that pebble from your hand. Thank you. Confidnce is certainly an issue. I will probably have as much time preparing for the job as doing it, but that is good. I hope to get to where I am sawing mostly at my property, but this is part of my school... and who knows were it will all lead.  BTW, I thought you were introducing Kung Fu Panda into the dialogue But my daughter corrected me. I watched a few episodes of KungFu with her this last year for her to get a taste of the Hollywood of my youth. 

I have some questions I am putting together, but I have to get back to work with my son. 

-Mike

[WV Sawmiller]

Grasshopper,

   It will make a huge difference in the life of your blade. If cut at ground level or above there will be little difference between cutting the stump and any other log. If below ground you may not finish a single cut before dulling the blade. I'd shy away from the below ground sawing if possible and be sure to include blade replacement if you do get caught up in sawing them - treat them the same as sawing into metal in a normal log. 

[doc henderson]

Yes grasshopper, you had already blended "kung fu" and "star wars", kind of a mind meld thing...like star trek?  My fav. junior high school joke.  What do the USS enterprise and a roll of toilet paper have in common?  ...they both circle Uranus in search of Klingons!  Your daughter may not be ready for that one.  hahaha.   :D

[Southside]

Not sure I understand the nudge, or if I should be engaged in such advanced kung-fu at this point.

Nudge you not can do...uh hummm..(in my best Yoda voice).  Not at this time anyway, you will need to incorporate the power of the "Schwartz" (Mel Brooks / Space Balls voice) or as many know it the "Hydraulics anywhere mod" before you are able to perform such an act of log levitation with your mill.  

[Southside]

WV, as I understand it, the tree company, cut the logs a few feet up, then went back and cut the stumps also. Not sure of level, but I can ask, if this has a bearing on my procedures.

You want to check those with a metal detector for sure!!   Walnut are fence and metal magnets for some strange reason and if you have a series of them cut off with high stumps then the first thing I think of is a fence row - one that the tree service could see or knew was there so they went above it to fell the tree then flush cut at ground level before grinding the stump out.  

Went and looked at some cedar the other day and there is was - several courses of barbed wire run into each and every one of those trees heading right down the driveway, really a shame when folks do that. 

[doc henderson]

you might start packing a duffel or toolbox with all the little things you will need.  i think @Magicman had spoke of a travel tool box. maybe start a list and get packing.  "I think were going to need a bigger boat"  Jaws.

[Jim_Rogers]

One way to tell if the blade is dull is by looking at the cut right after it enters the log.
If the blade is dull, it will sometime ride up, which I believe is called "blade push off"
You can see it here:



 

When you see this or find this using a straight edge you should stop sawing and change the blade.

Jim Rogers

[WDH]

I was referring to stumps dug out of the ground with the root ball. 

[WV Sawmiller]

   Yes, I felt there was a disruption in the force causing possible confusion and disharmony. Let us all join our collective auras for a favorable disposition such that young grasshopper comes into contact with no metal or undesirable elements from the earth adhering to the logs assigned for our young master.

[WDH]

Exactly, and he has to get the dirt off them too :D. 

[YellowHammer]

Yeah, what he said. :D :D

[MikeySP]

Ok, I see where I was confused. I never in my life thought that men cut subsurface part of stumps.. this smells of Orks, goblins, and worse things in middle earth. I will stay in the shire, above ground. Doc, this is my favorite work of fiction and movie - LOTR. 

Now I am learning another interpretation. I did not understand why a tree felling company would seperate the last few feet from the top...fencing wire concerns. Very good. I have let owner know about fee for metal strikes and I will frther inform him it may be why the tree co cut stumps seperate to go above and below. 

I have added a metal detector to my purchase list for this week as I come up with a portable tool kit. I will be postiing it here for critique.

If Magicman has a list already posted, I will search for it. 

Jim Rodgers, thank you for that. I like that.Straight edge test at the beginning of a cut.

 I think it will help me to SLOW down when I get back to sawing this week. Stopped to help son and to grade much of yard for grass seed sowing.  I have been trying to do so much, but I think quality is not getting focused on enough, so I will endeavor to be a machinist in my sawing for at least a few days, to really tighten up my decisions and understanding. I really want to do a good job for this man who is trusting me to extract his valuable lumber fromt hos logs. 

-Mike

[WV Sawmiller]

Grasshopper,

  Be warned about use of the metal detector - I suggest you use it only for your wood and not for the customer. Or you can loan it to the customer. If you scan for metal and fail to find it then damage a blade it is now your responsibility, if the customer scanned and missed it is now his responsibility. Why would you take on the unnecessary risk? I leave that risk squarely with the customer.

  As to cutting the stumps high it may have been because they knew or thought there was an old fence but that is also common practice to leave them high so they have plenty of wood to push against with a bulldozer. If they did bulldoze up the stumps that would be when they could cut off part of the below ground part. I was assuming cut off at the ground level while my compadres were addressing dug up/pushed up stumps cut below ground level which are evil demons from another dimension (although they may be in great favor if walnut for gunstock material).

[doc henderson]

Mike, Treebeard says hello.  I have made pens from root wood.  interesting grain.  metal detector will not pick up rocks or glass.  You could scan but tell the customer they are still responsible as the process is not perfect.  IMHO.  I never watched all of LOTR.  I should put that on my list.