need advice on blade

[cluckerplucker 1]

I cut 2 or 3 logs and my blade starts climing out of the log.and the blade gets dull fast. what am I doing wrong? I have a home built mill with cook guides.trailer tire for wheels and 23hp kohler for power.  cecil

[LeeB]

What are you cutting? Whats your feed rate? New blades or resharpened? Who sharpened them? Clean logs or dirty? How big are the logs? how many BF?

[mike_van]

Could be a lot of things, but I'd start with how big  are the 2 or 3 logs, and how clean are they?  2 or 3 logs with 200 bf in each is about all I'd hope for with a sharp blade, if they were nice & clean.  Once the tips of those blades start to round over, your all done.  All these mills perform their best with sharp blades that have the right set. Pushing a blade after it starts to dull doubles, sometimes triples the stress on it & your machine. Look at the tips of a new sharp blade with a magnifing glass to see how nice & clean they look. Then look at the tips of a blade thats started climbing/diving , you can see the perfect sharp edges are gone, they'll actually be rounded over some. That'll get you started some, I'm sure theres going to be some more good answers too. Hey, welcome to FF

[beenthere]

Cluckerplucker 1
Welcome to the forum....you've come to the right place, and should get some good help deciphering your frustration.  Should be fun,      And we like pics....

[kelLOGg]

In case you're sawing heart pine here's my 2 cents worth.
The same happened to me sawing heavily pitched old pine cants. Inspecting the blade showed the top of the blade was clean but a buildup of pine rosin on the downside. My oiler as it came on the Cook mill (and most others too) only wipe the top of the blade with no provision to clean the bottom. (This happened on a job for a neighbor who was making flooring. It was an embarassing experience for me. I ended up cutting the price out of fairness). I redesigned my oiler (see my gallery photos) to wipe both sides and have not had a problem since but I also have not cut heart pine again either so I can't be sure I solved the problem. The blade passes nicely thru the housing just barely kissing the oiled felt pads.

[Tom]

It can be a tension problem.  Tires can be difficult to tension.  Too little tension makes the blade diffult to control and it will climb, dip or both.

It can be a blade damage problem where the blade has hit part of the mill, lost its set or hit something in the log.  The only way to really know is examine the teeth.  If the teeth are damaged or have metal on them, and the log is clean, look for a shiny spot somewhere along the blade path on the sawmill where it might have touched.

Usually just a dull blade will still track fairly true unless you push it too fast, then it will go up or down.  Sometimes the problem is that we push the blade too fast.  If your advance speed is too great, it may cause the blade to rise in the cut.

Many times, and especially with roller guides, the problem is that the guides aren't guiding.  They have to keep the blade parallel to the bed.  To do that there needs to be enough "down pressure" on the blade by the guide wheel to allow the guide wheel to do its job. 

The last thing that can cause mis-tracking is the flange on the back of the roller guide not being close enought to the back of the blade. That allows the blade to move way back on the wheels before it contacts the flange.  The flange provides the backbone to the blade so that it can withstand the cutting pressures.  It is usually recommended that the flange on a roller guide not be further back from the back of an unstressed blade than 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch.

[deeker]

Cooks saw mfg. could roll the blades F-L-A-T!!!!  While I have tried the other listed solutions, the are temporary at best.  Contact cooks, or go to their website and read about it.  I have posted about this before and it is the only solution.  I should get a discount from cooks?????? 8) 8)  Not the wood, not the hook angle, not the set, not the sharpness, not the lube, or even the tension......the blades are not flat.


Kevin Davis
Ruff Cutts

[mike_van]

 I have posted about this before and it is the only solution.  I should get a discount from cooks?????? 8) 8)  Not the wood, not the hook angle, not the set, not the sharpness, not the lube, or even the tension......the blades are not flat.


Kevin Davis
Ruff Cutts

Kevin, I really disagree with your statement - I've run my bandmill [after building it] for 17 years now, I've never had a blade rolled flat yet.  It can help I'm sure, but to say the other stuff [set, sharpness,etc] doesn't matter is going to be misleading to new owners/millers.  It's a combination of everything, you mess one of them up, you make lousey lumber.  A blade with .008 or .010 set in it will not cut softwood worth a darn. 

[deeker]

I stand by what I say.  Period.  All else being correct with the blade (as it should be) and it rises in the cut....needs to be rolled flat.  Read what Cooks has to say.  
I had a few blades rise in the cut, out of the wood.  Sat the logs, and marked them as well as the blades.  Sent the blades to Cooks and had them rolled.  Same blade, (cooks sharpend and set them, and rolled) same logs.  Blades did NOT rise in the cut after they were rolled.

Kevin Davis
Ruff Cutts

[gizmodust]

Cluckerplucker 1
Welcome.  I'll agree with Mike _Van.  I've had new blades go for several logs without a lick of trouble.  Then I've had a blade right out of the box ride up and down.  I have a Norwood and run either Silicon Steel or Cobalt blades.  Found out the set was off.  I cut a big sassafrass and then three or four smaller poplar with one cobalt blade.  That was fun.  Welcome again.  I'm sure you'll get some good information to set you on your way.

[Brad_S.]

I'm with Mike. Cook's will tell you that you need to roll them so they can sell you a grossly over priced roller.  : I'm glad it works for you, but IMO that is the last thing I think this guy is up against at the moment.

Cluckerplucker,
Trying to trouble shoot home built mills is a little harder than manufactured mills because there is the added variable of builder error involved. Have you run the mill successfully before, or is this it's maiden voyage? I ask because I'm wondering if you have the guides either in line with or slightly above your tire bottom as opposed to having the guides slightly lower as you will find on most mills.

[IL Bull]

I have to agree with Tom about blade tension.  If you don't have enough your blade will not cut straight. :P  I don't agree about rolling the blade.  After a blade has been run for awhile it does seem to start cupping towards the guides.  With proper sharpness and set and the right tension a old blade will still cut straight.  The secret is to change the blade before you have your first wavy board.

[logwalker]

Clucker,

The very first thing to check are your guides to make sure they are holding the blade properly,  that is parallel to the board. To check this you need the gauge that clamps to the blade and gives you a straight edge to measure. They are about $20 dollars and invaluable in my book. Also as Tom said they need to be below the wheels about an 1/8" to be able to do that.

From there go to proper set and then dullness. Proper set means enough set for the width of the cut and species and even amount side to side. Minimum of 18 thousands or more is what I like.

If after that they still dive or climb take a straight edge and check the flatness of the band itself. At that point you may find it is not flat. If it has a lot of time on it then put it away for a utility blade. If it a low timer than try the Cook's service. But when you call them, and this is very important, ask them why they are not a part of our band of sawyers. It bothers me each time I order from them that they aren't on board. They are good people to deal with and offer great products.

Deeker, did you check your flatness with a straight edge before sending them off? My experience is that a sharp blade with a proper set is a forgiving tool in a cut. It will allow some curve across the band.

Joe

[deeker]

Yes, I checked the blades for flatness before pulling them off the mill.  They were not.  And I only used them for one cut each. Three blades, all new from cooks and they were NOT flat.  One cut each, marked the log to the blade.  The blades were returned and rolled.  Cooks also re sharpend and set the teeth.  Returned them to me, and I matched the blade to the log.  The cuts were straight and true.  I do wholeheartedly agree that cooks band roller is high priced.  For now, I send only blades to cooks that need to be rolled.  I sharpen and set my own.  Cooks only charges me $7 each for their service.  The next orders of blades from cooks, I had them rolled and they go on flat.


Kevin Davis
Ruff Cutts

[MartyParsons]

Start at the engine drive belt, blade tension, guides and miill alignment, dirty logs then we go in to feed rate engine horse power etc.
I would like to address the blade roller but I will leave that to the experts.  :
Marty

[ely]

i aggree with EVERYONE on this topic. everything that has been mentioned makes a difference when cutting wood. hardwood is way easier to saw than soft wood imo. listen to these old farts they know their stuff.

[Furby]

Has it been cutting ok up until now, since your problems a few years ago?
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,5756.msg79277.html

[ladylake]

   I wonder if car tires make any difference, it seems to me the blade tips would be riding on the tire maybe taking the set out and dulling them a little. Far as rolling my mill cuts great without it and if it doesn't it's the set, hook angle or dull. Been cutting a lot of frozen white oak lately, straight as a arrow yesterday with well used blades except for one dive when the was dull. I think I hit some dirt when edging.  1-1/4 Simonds       Steve

[jrokusek]

I have a homebuilt and had a similar problem.  For me it was that my bandwheels (also trailer tires) weren't plumb (aka perpendicular) to the bed.  Seems that my pillow block bearings weren't tightened down enough and gravity did it's thing.  I used a bungee cord and attached a level to the tire assembly and brought it back in line and it cut like a new machine.  Good luck!

[solidwoods]

Check the blade tracking.
Remove the blade guides.
Tension the blade.
Slow spin the blade.
It should track (UUUHHHH in the center of the tire?)
Then bring the guides back and set them so they barely touch the back of the guide.

Check the track prior to running each blade (not the above, just make sure the blade is running (UUUHHHHH where ever it normally runs on a trailer tire)

It is possible also that the blade is running up on the tread and the inside set is being flattened out of the blade.

Road tires can be problematic.  Because of a whole basket of reasons (mostly they aren't designed for that use).
Bands run great and problems are very predictable as long as it is kept within the parameters of its normal use.
jim

[Fla._Deadheader]

 We have cut a LOT of bd/ft, easily 300,000. Trailer Tires. Rubber is soft and will NOT take out set on good blades. We run 60-65 PSI and tighten the blades to where they cut right, and adjust to that mark every time, or a grunt more.

  We cut Heart Pine, Live Oak, Magnolia and exotic species, where the blade will chatter, the wood is so hard.

  We tried several Brands, and Munks is the best for us. WM 1½" works well on Heart Pine, even though we have 1¼ guide wheels. NEVER rolled a blade, never will. Metal wheels might crown a blade, dunno ???

   Are your guide wheels tapered ???  We have never changed ours yet. They are still nearly the shape when we bought them new. Changed bearings 3 times, I think ???

  Do you run downpressure on the blade with the guide wheels ???

  CLEAN , sharp, well tensioned blades cut perfect, if all adjustments are dead on.

  What kind of logs and conditions ???  We cut sinker stuff, with fine sand embedded in it. At dusk, it looked like were grinding steel.  STILL no problems, other than sharpness was not lasting very long.

  Tires are not designed for band blades ???  I suppose V belt back sides ARE ???