Almost decided - Logosol M7

[PlicketyCat]

Thanks Brucer for your honest insight.  When I tried out that Alaskan, I didn't have any control over what blade was on the saw and I think that may have been the issue (plus it was a Husky 445 -- under-powered at best).  I read Will Malloff's "Chainsaw Lumbermaking" and the only thing that really scares me about the Alaskan is all the myriad steps he showed just setting up for the "perfect cut" and all the little gadgets and mods he kept making. But, the lumber did look *danG fine.

I was figuring with the M7 that it would simplify the process a little.  Of course, if the average Joe (or Jane in my case) can get away sawing beautiful lumber with an Alaskan or Logosol Big Mill (just lagging guides to the log) without all the tricky math and modifications, then I'm certainly not opposed to an even less expensive mill.  It's not that I can't do any of those things, just that it could be a tedious process to go through every time with smaller logs.

Do definitely need a chain grinder. I've come to this conclusion just hand sharpening my firewood chains... hours and hours of filing can get old really fast ;) And we're getting a larger saw anyway, since we're maxing out our current one on the larger trees just bucking firewood (ok - frozen firewood might be the real problem).

[Beetlekill]

I'll give my two cents worth- I built a post and beam style cabin up here in AK using a rip saw like deadheader was referring too.  I would fall a tree with my stihl 036, perfect saw for interior alaska size timber and perfect for the ripsaw, then attach the saw to the mill and go to town.  The guide beam system for this is pretty slick too, no nails or boards.  Its compact, light, and works well.  The smaller tooth size makes for dang near planed wood too with miniscule kerf.   Also, this tool is awesome for making tongue and fork or half lap joints or quickly resawing timbers later when buildingjavascript:void(0);.  I like it alot especially if you dont have a central area where you are staging logs.   Also, I have a portable capstan winch and skidding cone from nova jack.  So handy for what you are planning to do.  Use it to yard up logs in multiple locations or skid em to your site, Then use it to set ridge beams, etc.  Put a want add on Craigslist too, I saw a rip saw for 500 bucks not to long ago and I recently got a nearly new 2004 lt 15 for an undisclosed steal of a price.  This is my third mill and they keep getting better, oh to have some hydraulics, one day....  Have fun and good luck, no matter what you get sawdust will be made. 

[PlicketyCat]

Thanks BeetleKill - good to get another Alaskan on here who knows what I'm talking about with the trees up here ;) I'll look into the other goodies and get on CraigsList again.

[critter]

  Hi cat  I cant figure how it is any easyer to get a two sided 14 inch
  16 to 20 feet long log plus side lumber back to the home site than
  it would be just to get a round log of the same length it would be the
  same trails same distance but one heck of alot less work and trips.
 
  If you had a small mill  you could cut timbers ,demention,lumber as
  you need it. all your waste/fire wood would be there and you could
  saw for future out buldings.
 
  You said that a small delay wastn't a probelm you can yard and stage
  your logs this winter while it's frozen saw and build this spring.

              best of luck to you anyway you go.
   

 

[firefighter]

Petersons have a live chat on ther web site ,it will save you going to town te site iswww,petersonsawmills.com now in NewZealand it is wednesdayaround noon .If you go on there site an click on contact it will tell you the time in New Zealand good luck

[James P.]

Hello CSM owners and Plickety was wondering with using a csm how often you have to refuel a 66cc saw or larger . That would be a consideration of mine. I may be one of the most frugal FF member so 5 gallons of gas and gallon of bar oil are like gold to me. Plus all the chain filing and extra chains and spare bar. I think the ripsaw sounds like a better option. the money you save on a smaller saw can go towards the mill. I don't know enough about the ripsaw to recommend it but I have sawed with a CSM when I first wanted to mill lumber. It was time consuming and worrying about the wear I was going to put on  $1,000 saw didn't have good memories. I sawed up one large poplar about 30" diameter and never used that kind of mill again.   For an occasional use maybe. small projects with no other choice than a hand rip saw definitely.I can't imagine all day to cut and mill lumber for building. running a saw for a day to fell trees and cut firewood is enough.  IMO good luck with what ever you choose.

[PlicketyCat]

If I was just squaring logs into posts and beams, it probably wouldn't save much work. But planks and dimensional would be much lighter to carry out, even if I had to make more trips. Doing it manual, without any toys, it's not possible to haul out a 500 lb tree by yourself... but you easily carry 10 loads of 50lbs ;)  But we're trying to sled these babies out with some sort of vehicle to a central location while we still have snow on the ground because that would be easier all around.

I'll check out the live chat.

I didn't find any hard data on gas consumption in any of my research. Lots of references to "similar fuel rates" for the different saws, but that wasn't compared against the BF. Logically, you'd think that MPG would be related to HP... so more HP = less MPG regardless of what engine you're running. With that logic, assuming that the M7 & the LT10 have similar BF/hr, then the LT10 would probably burn just a little more because it's slightly higher HP... but I don't have any real numbers.

[zopi]

Plickety, In talking to you I've found you have a keen analytical mind, I think you are on the right track...I don't know about the M7 specifically, but have messed with CSM...I sawed with an MS-660..7hp chainsaw...big bugger uses alot of fuel for the return, 12" log and say ten feet long, cut through and through was at least a tank and a half...in pine...consider hauling more fuel in...for the log size you are talking about an MS-440 SHOULD be sufficient...660 is better..but unless you are cutting big hardwood, the 880 is like swatting a fly with a buick..

The water cooling on a BSM is not much itch in the cold...gallon of windshield deicer fluid and  little pine-sol to cut the pitch...you don't have to run water constantly, just every so often to cut the pitch or cool the blade in heavy cuts...I went through a gallon in a 29" pine trunk  14' long the other day...

you guys are on this stick to make it work, and know your resources, where I don;t necessarily... I would personally be after a swinger...with an eye towards sawing on shares once the buildings and fences were up...the CSM likely won't produce enough per hour, day, whatever to saw for trade...but that's me, you may not want to be in the sawing business....

one other point to consider...swinger blades while more expensive are quicker to sharpen and can be re tipped..

Something I am not sure of though, that skill mill would cut all sorts of neat profiles and angles....will the other swing mills do that sort of thing?

[WDH]

It might be that once others find out that you have a mill, they will need some lumber cut.  A small portable bandmill might pay for itself and in the same time, allow you to cut what you need and also cut wood for others on the side, and be a good financial investment.

Sawmills are like magnets that draw others in.  However, you may be too remote for that possibility.  In any event, be sure to think ahead of what you might think that you only need now, and plan ahead.  That is a lesson learned by many.

[fishpharmer]

Seems a four stroke engine (such as on most bandmills) would use a lot less fuel than a two stroke engine (most chainsaws) of the same horsepower. 

Besides.......

Heck with all that oil in Alaska Plickitycat  is not worried about that ;)

Also, a being a southern boy, I would think that a frozen log wouldn't need much lubrication to cool a band saw blade.  Heck, wouldn't the ice do the job?  Someone will set me straight.  Its probably like the airblower I use for fish tanks, the air friction produces an incredible amount of heat.  I have actually melted and blown out schedule 80 pipes.  340 cfm is alot ;D

My apologies for getting off topic.

[Hilltop366]

Hi, I have a homemade sawmill using a bar and chain and a 16 hp lawn tractor engine it seems to be a bit faster than most of the CSM's I have seen on the net, I'm guessing the cutting speed is around the same as a 10 hp bandsaw so it is not real fast and YES it makes a 1/4" kerf and uses chain oil and wears out a bar or nose sprocket after a while, burns gas and NO the lumber you cut is not "free", it is not easy work and can be very frustrating when something is not working right (you can be dang sure that will happen with any mill you choose just like any other piece of equipment) but here is the thing that made me go the route I did,

I was origionally thinking of making a band saw. (this was 12 years ago did not have internet just a few brouchures and had seen a few band mills) I got looking at the cost of bands and seeing the pile of rusty broken ones next to the mills I looked at and thinking those are $20 to $25 each!, then I got a price on the sharpening and setting equipment $2500.00, so for the cost of a bar and 2 chains (under $200) I changed my plans and went with bar and chain and built the mill for $2500.00 using mostly new steel and parts (paid $500 for used lawn tractor for engine $2000.00 for the rest) I milled out all of my timbers for my part timber frame house and as much again with those two chains and spent $10 on files. I used a clamp on file guide for 4 or 5 years then broke down and bought a half decent grinder. I have bought 2 more chains since but could still get another 3-4 sharpenings out of the first ones.

What I am getting at in a long round about way is IF time is not a big factor, and shipping is a pain in the ___ and expensive, I'm thinking I would go with some type of csm setup for a mill with a portable winch, get a extra bar or two, spare nose sprocket, chain repair links & hand held chain repair tools (I have never broke a chain yet, .404 chain, but were your so far off the beaten path it may be worth it) and the rest of the regular chainsaw stuff, taking care not to over heat the saw it should last quite a while.

Which ever way you folkes go with this I wish you luck and admire your ambition and resolve to follow your dreams.

Cheers from Nova Scotia.

[zopi]

oh..get the chainsaw tuned slightly rich on top end...snot as hard on 'em that way..

[PlicketyCat]

Good point about fuel efficiency on 4-stroke vs. 2-stroke. I'll keep it in mind. But hey, once I'm set up I'll be brewing my own ethanol so who cares about fuel efficiency   (yes, yes, I've heard the horror stories about ethanol -- it works just fine in my climate because it's soooo arid and cold)

There are maybe 200 people/families living within a 2-hour radius of me in any direction, even less in the winter. I doubt there's much need for another portable sawyer in the area (there's one in the village down the road, he charges waaaaay too much but would not take kindly to competition). Superfluous anyway as we'd rather make extra cash selling our farm goods than hiring out our services and back muscles. We might help out a neighbor with a new build or something once every few years, but that would be more for community than profit.  (yes, I'm one of those sick people who aren't motivated by profit).

Getting stuff here is a major PITA and can get expensive. During the worst of winter, you have to rely on the mail plane to get you stuff, and even then he might not come if the weather is bad, and there is a size/weight limit in his plane unless you contract out special with another bush outfit ($$$). So much easier to drive 4 hours into F'Banks one day in the summer and pick up a wahootey-load of parts and other consumables -- either at a store/dealer or a big box that UPS holds at the depot since they don't deliver out here.

[Brucer]

... I read Will Malloff's "Chainsaw Lumbermaking" and the only thing that really scares me about the Alaskan is all the myriad steps he showed just setting up for the "perfect cut" and all the little gadgets and mods he kept making. But, the lumber did look *danG fine.

I used a Granberg mini-mill for a couple of years and then discovered Will Malloff's book. That was pretty much what got me switched to the Alaskan mill. I did pretty much everything Will did, except that I improved on a few things. The set up looks complicated but it got pretty quick after some practice. Unfortunately, you end up with so much "stuff" to cart around that you're making twice as many trips to get everything to the log.

For a big log on the ground, his winch system was great. When I had smaller logs up on horses, I just pushed the saw and ate the fumes.

That's a good reference book to have on hand if you go with the M7. You'll probably find yourself adapting some of his ideas.

oh..get the chainsaw tuned slightly rich on top end...snot as hard on 'em that way..

That's for sure. Will mentions that in his book as well. Just a touch rich, though, it doesn't take much.

[PlicketyCat]

Brucer - one thing that I did think was great about Will's method with the Alaskan was that he blocked the base and adjusted the the guide spacers on either end to take into account the log's taper... he tried to keep the heart level all the way down. With most of the mills I've seen, it looks like you just plop the log on the deck and start making cuts. The bottom is level so the top could be steeply angled on a tapered log... meaning the heart would be angled downward as well. I imagine towards the center of the log, you'd start cutting "ovals" out of the heart because the blade is not in a level plane with it.  Does that even matter?

[zopi]

It matters alright...If the heart is level your lumber will be both stronger and more attractive..in extreme cases the angle would be great enough to cut through the grain all the way across the board..weakening it in shear and compression both..

[Hilltop366]

PlicketyCat

I was wondering if you looked at the Norwood portamill (Norwood link at left of page) it looks like a good idea for using a chainsaw may be someone on here has experience with it and can comment.

Cheers

[PlicketyCat]

It matters alright...If the heart is level your lumber will be both stronger and more attractive..in extreme cases the angle would be great enough to cut through the grain all the way across the board..weakening it in shear and compression both..

That's what I figured. Guess I've been looking at cupped, bowed, waney, twisted, knotty, poorly cut board from Blowes and Home Labyrinth too long to remember what good lumber supposed to look like!  :D

[PlicketyCat]

PlicketyCat

I was wondering if you looked at the Norwood portamill (Norwood link at left of page) it looks like a good idea for using a chainsaw may be someone on here has experience with it and can comment.

Cheers

I did check it out. Pretty nifty use of an extension ladder as the tracks (big for me because I hate stuff that only does one thing). It's a little spendier for what you get than the Alaskan or the Big Mill, but it does have the built-in easy measurements and the guide head so you're not down sucking exhaust and sawdust. The only real drawback that I saw is that it's maximum width is at the low end of our average good house logs, so we might end up with good logs we can't mill. It's also set up to mill dimensional lumber 1" & 2" x up to 8". We need something that can square beams (up to 12 x 12), make planks, and possibly slabs for countertops & tables, I'm not sure if this would be the right mill for us since we've got limited dimensional in any of our building plans.

[beenthere]

The dimension material at the box stores is after many have sorted out the high grade material, and used it in higher value products, such as structural beams, trusses, and the like.

Along the way, what is left ends up as a product that does sell at the box stores. People buy it, as it is cheap. And they complain about it too.  ;D ;D But it is still cheap. 

When you log and saw your own trees, that high grade material will be yours to keep.

[PlicketyCat]

Ain't it the truth? And then you spend hours picking through the leavings trying to find the best of the worst -- like separating fly speck from the pepper! I even went to our lumberyard and tried to get higher grade for our sills (at least!) on the tent platform... no go, seems they reserve the good stuff for the "professionals"  :

I can't wait to have "total control" over the quality of my building materials. I'm pretty sure a board from even the most bent and gnarly tree on my lot, that I milled drunk in the dark, would yield better lumber than some of the crap I had to pick through for our platform joists -- just can't find decent 2x6's with all 4 edges anymore! If they have all the edges, then they've got a huge know right on the edge or the crown is spliit  >:(

[Mad Professor]

I've had a logosol M5/066 combo for 10 years now, never had a problem with either.

Smooth accurate cuts but not high production.  If you are doing TF building an advantage is you can add a 1/2 or full mill to it and cut beams as log as you need.  They have bolted a bunch together and milled whole trees into long boards/beams (100ft +).

A single mill can be carried into the woods by one person, but it's much easier with a helper.

It will also mill shorts and odd shaped wood that other mills can't.

[PlicketyCat]

Thanks Professor - it's good to hear that others ahve used similar combos with success.  It's likely that both of us will be carrying things in and getting set up, then one of us mills while the other goes off to drop the next tree or prep the next log. We'll definitely need the ability to saw long logs, since many of the timbers in our cabin will need to be 14'+ and I'd rather not scarf them if I can help it!

[stonebroke]

How are you going to move the milled cabin logs out to your site? They are still going to be plenty heavy to move by hand.

Stonebroke

[PlicketyCat]

We're going to haul the big house logs out this winter (hopefully) with the truck (or ATV) & winch while there is still snow on the ground. Those we'll have in a central location (hopefully the home site if we decide on one soon) to mill. We can get into the forest with the truck a lot easier in the winter than in summer without having to clear as much trail... at least close enough to play out the winch cable.  But the logs we're milling for planks, and the small amount of dimensional we'll need, we'll probably just mill where it falls because it's easier to carry out a few boards at a time (in several trips) than it is to get the whole tree out at once in the winter or summer. Most of the house logs would need to be 14" dbh or less, so those are easier to winch out and drag. Our trees up here are tall with minimal taper, but not very girthy, so we can get a good long 12x12 beam out of 14" log. We do have a few bigger trees (20-36" dbh) that we'll be milling for planks as it's more bang for the buck (pun intended ;)) and they're just too darn big to transport without heavy machinery.