Almost decided - Logosol M7

[LeeB]

You will only get at best a 9"x 9" beam out of a 14" log.

[PlicketyCat]

You will only get at best a 9"x 9" beam out of a 14" log.

Right right - most of my beams are 8's & 9's so I got 14"d stuck in my head. For the handful of 12x12's we need 18"d logs or a smidge higher for those, especially since they are some of the few fully square timbers in the layout (most are only flat on one or two faces and live on the others)

[gemniii]

Brucer - one thing that I did think was great about Will's method with the Alaskan was that he blocked the base and adjusted the the guide spacers on either end to take into account the log's taper... he tried to keep the heart level all the way down. With most of the mills I've seen, it looks like you just plop the log on the deck and start making cuts. The bottom is level so the top could be steeply angled on a tapered log... meaning the heart would be angled downward as well. I imagine towards the center of the log, you'd start cutting "ovals" out of the heart because the blade is not in a level plane with it.  Does that even matter?

Although I haven't bothered to do it in my little foray into CSM I thought all the "info" and videos I looked at showed that one should have a long straight piece of tree, carefully mark the center at both ends, measure up your boards and kerf from the center.  Then make the first cut so you had a wide piece at the butt and a narrow piece at the far end as your first cant.  This sets up so you progress toward the center.
First I need to find a long straight piece of tree

[PlicketyCat]

Yes, the "rules" say you should do all those things and make your cuts level with the heartwood and measure from the center from both ends, etc etc... but how many people actually do it, or even read the rules?   All the demo videos show it real simple like because they use a straight tree with minimal taper to begin with. That's what I liked about Will's book, he goes into all sorts of ways to deal with crookedy bent trees (including using the the way they are!)

First I need to find a long straight piece of tree

Luckily, we don't have too much of problem with that up here... trees tend to grow straight up with few limbs and minimal taper... guess that's what happens when it takes 100 years to get 9"d ;)

[Mad Professor]

Brucer - one thing that I did think was great about Will's method with the Alaskan was that he blocked the base and adjusted the the guide spacers on either end to take into account the log's taper... he tried to keep the heart level all the way down. With most of the mills I've seen, it looks like you just plop the log on the deck and start making cuts. The bottom is level so the top could be steeply angled on a tapered log... meaning the heart would be angled downward as well. I imagine towards the center of the log, you'd start cutting "ovals" out of the heart because the blade is not in a level plane with it.  Does that even matter?

I do a similar thing with my logosol. 

You can lift either log support independent of the other to get a centered cant.  First take a square to mark out the Beam (centered) you are cutting out on each end of the log.  The first slab comes off then cut for grade until you get to your cant size.  I get a fair amount of nice 4/4 and 5/4 before I get down to the cant.

Another thing besides centering the cant is to only use the straightest logs for beams. Wavy logs will check a lot as the pith moves back and forth from/close too the surface and will also be weaker.  Use these for sills and save the better for posts/beams.

If the snow don't get too deep I've got some logs to mill soon, cherry for grade and ash for grade/beams , and will try to post some pictures

[PlicketyCat]

Thanks Professor - I'd love to see some pics of the end product from your Logosol.  I was wondering if the two jacks on the M7 could be set independentally to adjust for taper, good to know.  I'll try to keep any wany, check-prone wood to the porch and not the main house if I can help it... I'm not too keen on weak sills since we'll be raised up 2-4 feet on post & pier to stay above the snow and not thaw the permafrost. If we were on grade or a stem wall, I'd feel a little more confident using less than "perfect"... but I've seen too many cabins sagging on rotted or cracked sills up here. Once the snow gets into a bad check, the thaw-freeze cycle will split it right open like a nut shell in a couple of years.

[Mad Professor]

The noreaster this weekend went south so I've got perfect skidding weather now with about 3-5" of crusty snow. Will try to get some pics of the mill/product if time permits.  Still have a deer tag to fill.......and first ice fishing of the season today.........

And yes you can adjust the log supports independently, can even mill a ramp/angle if you want to.  The M5 was 1/4" increments, not sure what the M7 has.

I've replicated what the logosol video depicts, cut a 1/4" ca. 8ft cut (veneer) and bend it around into a circle. 

[PlicketyCat]

Good to know that it makes decent veneers. Since our house is round all the fascia, etc would need to be curved. Wasn't looking forward to cutting them curved or steam bending... glue lam is sooooooo much easier and predictable!

[Rodney Sinclair]

I have a Logosol M7 and use the 385 husky with it. It will do every thing that Logosol says it will do. But I do think the 395 would be a better saw. Not for the size so much as the way it is built. Most of us that have the 385 have had to shim up where the saw fits onto the sled. Other than that, I have four bars for mine.16", 20", 24"and 36" with a sprocket for each bar. Most of the time I run the 16".

I think it cuts better lumber than the bandsaw (I also have a 1220 TimberKing). The Logosol cuts a log up to 17' the way it comes, the bandsaw cuts 12'. I can use the saw for other things if I need to. Like cut up that 100 year old Oak that came down on my well shed in a storm last year. I can take the guide bar off and put it on a jig to quarter cut any log that is too big for the M7. Stuff like that.

The mill doesn't rust but you do have to watch the bolts don't loosen up on you.It is loud and it takes more gas and oil than a bandsaw. But it really doesn't cut all that much slower the the bandsaw. Either one will do more than I want to in a day.

Good luck which ever you chose. Hope tis helps..


Rodney

[PlicketyCat]

Thanks Rodney, good to hear from someone else who uses both types.

Either one will do more than I want to in a day.

Exactly!  ;D

[Qweaver]

I watched the logosol video and it seems that anyplace that you would be able to carry that frame into... you would also be able to get a logging arch into with your ATV to cart the logs out.  Especially if the log is bucked to the length that you need. 
I have sawed enough timber to build my cabin and 4 large sheds over the past two years and I'm sure glad that I did not have to move the saw to the trees.  You should try to make an accurate estimate of how much lumber you are going to need.  I think you will be surprised.  I sure was. 
I don't know anything about working on permafrost but mounting an LT 15 on a post type frame should work OK. 
I read in one of your posts that you thought that the BF production of the logosol and a WM LT10 would be about the same.  Maybe it is.  But I can assure you that my LT15 will double or tripple that production.  I paid $4500 for my used but excellent LT15 and that came with five 2' mounting stands, extentions so that I can cut 20' logs and many other extras.  So good buys are out there.  I don't envy you doing this kind of work without a tractor but I do know it can be done and I admire your grit.
You also remarked about not being able to use cutting fluid in the freezing conditions.  I usually only use cutting fluid when sawing pine but I'll bet that someone here has an answer for that problem.

[PlicketyCat]

Hi Qweaver, I did find a few good deals on various larger mills... none of them in AK though :(  The shipping alone negates the savings. The only BSM "deal" I found up here is a homemade one of questionable integrity.

I was flipping through an old copy of Fine Woodworking magazine from the 70's the other day... ironically, the Chainsaw Milling edition... and came across this ad





Is it all just co-inky-dink?

[zopi]

Blade lube isn't always necessary...I've become ever more sparing of it,,'cept in pine..and dry hardwood..

As it gets cold, add windshield washer fluid...as it gets really cold..use straight windshield
washer fluid..when that freezes...go in the house and pul the jug after you...then, next spring build a sawshed with a big honkin barrel stove to burn slabs in...being cold sucks.

[Jim Spencer]

I have a Logosol M7 and have cut 5,000/10,000 bdf on it.   There is no way that it will come close to what you can cut with a bandsaw mill.  It is a great mill for a hobbyist but in my opinion you would starve before you could support yourself cutting lumber for resale.  You must sharpen tyour chains without removing them from the saw.  It takes too long to remove the chain and reassemble saw.  I use a dremel tool to resharpen my chains.  Also a file will work great but if you plan on removing chain to resharpen it is a great waste of time and work.
In Alaska I imagine I would love to have a Logosol.  I read that someone suggested you use a wheeled device to lift the log and carry it to the mill.  This is a good idea.  I have moved my mill to the log a few times but you will need a level spot to set the mill before loading the log on to it.  Not necessarily level but all legs must be supporting the weight.
Put some thought into it.

[Jimbob]

I've spent a good part of last year using a Logosol M7 to mill the framing lumber for my retirement house. Would I do it again ? Maybe, or maybe if the lumber prices were as depressed as they have been, I might just buy the lumber   ;) (I bought the M7 a few years earlier, however, when lumber was higher). It was a rewarding experience, however, and gave me something to keep me busy in my retirement.
I did get a fairly good deal on the mill and saw (Husky 395), I think about $2500 for both. However, if I never mill another log, they have paid for themselves several times over, and I still have a hefty saw that I can use for firewood.
I have a one man operation. Used an ATV and homemade logging arch to bring the logs to the mill, and a homemade winch stand to load the logs on the mill.

If I were going to have milled 1x's, however, I most definitely would have considered going the expense of a band mill, or at least a used band mill. It's just too much cutting, in my opinion, to be making very many boards with a chainsaw.

But when I consider all of the work that was involved, the actual cutting was not really that big a portion of the time. But boy, that 395 sure is loud and makes a humongous amount of sawdust. I would mill a 3 or 4 logs and then have 6 to 10 wheelbarrows of sawdust to cart off.

Bottom line:
If you have a project to do that involves mostly beams and/or framing lumber, the M7 is a relatively inexpensive route compared to a band mill.
But if you're going to be making a lot of 1x's or going to be milling for a long time or trying to make money with it, go the band mill route.

[PlicketyCat]

Thanks for sharing your experience with the M7 Jimbob

Bottom line:
If you have a project to do that involves mostly beams and/or framing lumber, the M7 is a relatively inexpensive route compared to a band mill.
But if you're going to be making a lot of 1x's or going to be milling for a long time or trying to make money with it, go the band mill route.

I totally agree, if you're looking to do a lot of dimensional or thinner "finish" lumber then the BSM is probably much better than the CSM. Fortunately, our project is 70% posts and beams, 20% 2" thick floor/ceiling planks, with the remaining 10% dimensional lumber for interior framing, trim, molding, cabinets, etc.  On the other buildings we'll eventually build, there's probably going to be even less dimensional & thinner "finish" lumber required.

[mad murdock]

FWIW... Moved to Oregon from the Great Land several years ago, in prior years, had experience with circle mills, BSM and had used a beam machine to rough cants from spruce logs.  When we ended up on our tree farm here, needed to log, then wanted to mill a little on the side for own use, bought a 372xpw w/28" bar, and 2 ripping chains, did the logging,
then milled about 600BF with the Alaskan Mill II that I bought when I purchased the saw...Wow was I suprised at how nice the boards turned out!  Kept the chain sharp, used mu felling wedges to keep the kerf open, and the boards turned out as bood as or bettern than anything i have seen come off a BSM, albeit ALOT slower.  For the money, a CSM in your circumstance makes alot of sense to me.  If I get into a need for more volume milling, will either track down a used skill mill, or build an electric powered swing blade, for now the CSM does the job, for what I need it to do.  I liked cruising the local walmarts in AK, always found lots of good stuff. Especially in the more out of the way places, like Kotz.

[PlicketyCat]

I liked cruising the local walmarts in AK, always found lots of good stuff. Especially in the more out of the way places, like Kotz.

I just found an old ford flat bed that's been chopped off at our "wally-world"... thinking I might be able to rig that up with a square tongue to help haul with the ATV. I still have to make my log sled out of those old snowmachine skis. Too bad my welding torch is in storage up in Fairbanks :(

The real Wal-Marts up here are probably the only place in the US where they stock the bear repellant right next to the pet supplies and tarps in the home section !

I can't wait to get into Fairbanks and spend an afternoon at AIH (Alaska Industrial Hardware) now that I know what sort of things I'm looking for here at the 'Stead. I know they have the Granbergs and the Beam Machine... but I'll have to see if they have the Logosols, or any of the others, since they weren't listed as distributors on the Logosol site (in fact there were no dealers in AK listed, hoping that's an oversight -- Alaska, the forgotten planet ROFL).

I'm starting to lean back more towards the Alaskan III again... with the money I save, I can get the uber-Stihl or Husky and still have some left over for other log handling gear that we desperately need.

[jpgreen]

I think if I were in your shoes I would definitely log arc/sled your logs home to the mill like mentioned above.

I've had all 3- granberg, woodbug, and now LT40 HD. What becomes a real pain and soon learned is bringing the mill to the logs. You're commited. You always have to move the mill around on site, then you always have to move logs, lumber, and you're always on a dealine of some sort- getting things set up in time, getting stuff moved out in time, etc.,

Then when you're out in the field and something breaks your murphy'd.

I thought moving a light mill to the logs was going to be the ticket, and soon found out it was not. Even with the CSM it was much more convenient and easier to bring logs home. You can work at your pace, and just walk away when done and not worry about it. The logs can sit and wait.

The other huge conisderation are the mill slabs- excellent fire wood easily bucked up. When you're out in the field the last thing you want to do is haul slabs at the end of the day.  What a waste of good hot burning firewood.

If it were me I would start hauling logs in, anyway you can and start your log deck, then when you get a mill you can go to work.

As stated before, cutting anything but beams with a CSM wastes a lot of wood, and is a lot of work. Moving up to a bandsaw mill was a huge eye opener, and increase in productivity, and less work not because of the LT40 necessarily, but the band blade kerf. When I milled up my first log and looked at the pile of lumber I got out of it, my jaw dropped.

I would look at the bandmills, that are on tracks like the L-15's etc., and wait til' I could afford one of those mills, and park it at the house.

[PlicketyCat]

Hi JP, yes, I think we are going to start sledding the trees out before the snow melts. I think the only way we'd normally go to the tree is if it was really honkin' huge and we couldn't move it or it was in a strange area that we couldn't get at to haul it out. All the rest we're going to sled or arch out if we can. That way we can set up an assembly line of sorts, which always seems to go faster. And you're right, firewood is a terrible thing to waste (esp. since we have 6 mos of winter up here )

I think we'll get the CSM to start since we can afford it and we need to get started on the house and can't wait to be able to afford the BSM. Then, when we can afford something bigger/faster, we can evaluate our needs even better since we'll have first-hand experience of our trees, projects and working style ;)  In the meantime, we can slowly labor through squaring beams for the house framing... that's 70+% of the project right there, maybe we'll even be able to afford something else before we need to cut planks/boards and dimensional lumber.

[Stephen1]

Did you see this unit, i found it on e-bay
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360226850681&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:CA:1123

[PlicketyCat]

Thanks for the heads-up Stephen, that's a cool little mill. I contacted the seller, and shipping up here would more than double the cost -- YIKES! Since some of our timber will actually be bigger than 16", I think something this small may get us into trouble in some spots !

I had the opportunity to test drive an Alaskan with the next-to-biggest Husky and a low-kerf ripping blade on spruce logs at a dealer the other day when I was in Fairbanks. Wow! The cut was very clean and I planked out a 28" dbh 10' log in about 30 minutes (including first slab set up!). Not too shabby for what we're planning to do

[Stephen1]

So!!! Whats the Answer?  Did you take it home with you?  ;)

[PlicketyCat]

The one they had was a demo model, but they should be getting some more in stock this spring so I'm on the list and they'll let me know when the shipment comes in so I can drive into Fairbanks and pick it up.  If I'd "bought it" that day, then it would have been a "special order" and I would have been charged all the freight... too much $$$. That's one thing I love about some of the stores and salesmen up here, they really do try to help you save money and get the right things (even if store policy is a little "greedy")... I even had one guy get me a discount on lumber and insulation by swearing to the checkout clerk that I was his girlfriend so I'd get his employee discount .